RE: PH Investigates: black box insurance
Discussion
Let's face it chaps we're a dying breed. The public highway is not a playground, it is merely part of the transport infrastructure to be used as a means for the masses to get from A to B in their efforts to contribute more taxes.
Technology means that our overloads will soon have the peasants exactly where they want them. Shuffling about in their little tin boxes doing as they're told in a nice orderly manner.
Yes we can resist but ultimately we're going to loose. We've got another 20 yrs tops. Yes we can dream of and discuss the merits of the McLaren P1 but they're history before they've turned a wheel in the hands of their future owners.
Motoring and Cars as a hobby or interest are no longer an acceptable past time. And the black box is the final nail in the coffin
Technology means that our overloads will soon have the peasants exactly where they want them. Shuffling about in their little tin boxes doing as they're told in a nice orderly manner.
Yes we can resist but ultimately we're going to loose. We've got another 20 yrs tops. Yes we can dream of and discuss the merits of the McLaren P1 but they're history before they've turned a wheel in the hands of their future owners.
Motoring and Cars as a hobby or interest are no longer an acceptable past time. And the black box is the final nail in the coffin
Black box schemes will INEVITABLY lead at a later date to drivers having the data used against them for insurance premium loading and prosecution for breaking speed limits even when no accident has occurred. Once these schemes gain traction there will be no stopping the gradual ratcheting up of control. Don't sleepwalk into that situation - if you take part in black box schemes now, YOU are responsible in a few years time for all of us living with the consequences.
Leaving aside the horrific future that would await those of us who currently enjoy spirited but responsible driving lets take a look at the quack economics of these schemes, e.g. use a black box and your responsible driving will allow us to give you a lower premium. What happens if black boxes become mandatory for everyone? Surely that means that premiums will stay exactly where they are as premiums and risk is now spread over the same group of drivers as today. In fact the net effect is the cost of the technology which has now been added and which will of course be passed on to you and I via higher premiums. Is that what you want, higher premiums?
Even if black boxes are not made mandatory, once take up is high enough, those of us who decline a box will be penalised via much higher premiums for not accepting a black box.
Leaving aside the horrific future that would await those of us who currently enjoy spirited but responsible driving lets take a look at the quack economics of these schemes, e.g. use a black box and your responsible driving will allow us to give you a lower premium. What happens if black boxes become mandatory for everyone? Surely that means that premiums will stay exactly where they are as premiums and risk is now spread over the same group of drivers as today. In fact the net effect is the cost of the technology which has now been added and which will of course be passed on to you and I via higher premiums. Is that what you want, higher premiums?
Even if black boxes are not made mandatory, once take up is high enough, those of us who decline a box will be penalised via much higher premiums for not accepting a black box.
As per proruffy's post above, my 17yr old was quoted £2800 for his Micra by Admiral, rising to £4800 once he'd passed his test. That was a typical quote among other 'conventional' insurers I tried.
iKube quoted £1670 with the black box, a premium that they say will not rise after he (hopefully) passes his test next weekend. In fact they reckon it should go down, based on his driving performance thus far.
It's a no brainer for us (his Mum and I are insured for the car too). We have no problem with the 'nanny state' stuff with these savings on offer, in fact we quite like having to drive in a more disciplined way when we're in his car.
Having said that we got fined £100 for being out in the car at 11.08pm - there's an 11pm curfew.
iKube quoted £1670 with the black box, a premium that they say will not rise after he (hopefully) passes his test next weekend. In fact they reckon it should go down, based on his driving performance thus far.
It's a no brainer for us (his Mum and I are insured for the car too). We have no problem with the 'nanny state' stuff with these savings on offer, in fact we quite like having to drive in a more disciplined way when we're in his car.
Having said that we got fined £100 for being out in the car at 11.08pm - there's an 11pm curfew.
Working with telematics for years has taught me one thing - technology is already there in these devices to monitor everything you do.
This means that they may show you lots of guff about the things they are montiroing but they will monitor everything unless you can turn the thing off.
So you have an accident, they wil get all the read outs and even if you were not at fault they will null and void your insurance as you were speeding etc.
We fitted a load to electric vehicles and they recorded alsorts!
This means that they may show you lots of guff about the things they are montiroing but they will monitor everything unless you can turn the thing off.
So you have an accident, they wil get all the read outs and even if you were not at fault they will null and void your insurance as you were speeding etc.
We fitted a load to electric vehicles and they recorded alsorts!
For those of you worrying about speed:
Another piece of information that i missed off my other post is that Co-op were kind enough to send out a useful piece of info with the the policy documents regarding speed. Basically a break down of the speeds you had to achieve for them to instantly cancel your policy.
I can't remember all of the numbers, but it was certainly 110mph+ in a 70mph zone and off the top of my head the 30mph zone cancellation speed was over 50mph.
Although I suggest that anybody doing over 50mph in a 30 zone DESERVES to have their insurance cancelled.
Another piece of information that i missed off my other post is that Co-op were kind enough to send out a useful piece of info with the the policy documents regarding speed. Basically a break down of the speeds you had to achieve for them to instantly cancel your policy.
I can't remember all of the numbers, but it was certainly 110mph+ in a 70mph zone and off the top of my head the 30mph zone cancellation speed was over 50mph.
Although I suggest that anybody doing over 50mph in a 30 zone DESERVES to have their insurance cancelled.
proruffy said:
Although I suggest that anybody doing over 50mph in a 30 zone DESERVES to have their insurance cancelled.
Westway, coming out of London is a 3 lane Motorway style road with a 30mph limit. At empty times even at 70 mph it feels incredibly slow. Would I really deserve to have my insurance cancelled for doing 51 mph....The Black Box doesnt work for a very simple reason. It appeals to those who are likely to be low risk as they believe they can save money. Poor risk drivers will stay away as they know they would be penalised.
A large UK insurer piloted this a few years ago and found exactly this and as a result couldnt make any money.
A large UK insurer piloted this a few years ago and found exactly this and as a result couldnt make any money.
Biggriff said:
The Black Box doesnt work for a very simple reason. It appeals to those who are likely to be low risk as they believe they can save money. Poor risk drivers will stay away as they know they would be penalised.
A large UK insurer piloted this a few years ago and found exactly this and as a result couldnt make any money.
It stands a lot more chance of working now, given how expensive insurance is for young drivers. Many may not have a choice.A large UK insurer piloted this a few years ago and found exactly this and as a result couldnt make any money.
ked if you want to work night shifts to earn extra pennies. Devil2575 said:
It stands a lot more chance of working now, given how expensive insurance is for young drivers. Many may not have a choice.
And once they got em that's how they'll keep them. The only possible reason for refusing a black box in their minds is that you may enjoy a spirited drive in which case they don't want you. Watch the rates change for those that have had a box and no longer want one...
I'd love it we binned all these parastitic insurance companies and adopted a surcharge on fuel or tax disc to cover car insurance.
Every which way a motorist turns its a nightmare.
Black boxes will sadly seem totally normal in 2 years.
Your car will even fine you for speeding by "telling on you" to a central computer.
The government stand to make millions more....
Every which way a motorist turns its a nightmare.
Black boxes will sadly seem totally normal in 2 years.
Your car will even fine you for speeding by "telling on you" to a central computer.
The government stand to make millions more....
Biggriff said:
The Black Box doesnt work for a very simple reason. It appeals to those who are likely to be low risk as they believe they can save money. Poor risk drivers will stay away as they know they would be penalised.
Bring that on, I'm all in favour of poor drivers staying away as that will - or should, at least - reduce the premiums for the rest of us. The insurance companies should be able to price their products so that the money they save from a big reduction in ruinously expensive repair/whiplash claims allows them to still make a profit from lower premiums. Nope. Not ever.
As has been said above I take real issue with the way safe driving is being defined by what a GPS and some accelerometers can measure.
If this system could measure how big a queue someone has behind them on a NSL road and how many dangerous overtakes those drivers make or how often other drivers had to make evasive manouvers because of a blind lane change or how often the driver with the box didn't look before pulling/reversing out onto a main road or any of the other stupid stuff crap motorists do then I'd be less negative about it.
As has been said above I take real issue with the way safe driving is being defined by what a GPS and some accelerometers can measure.
If this system could measure how big a queue someone has behind them on a NSL road and how many dangerous overtakes those drivers make or how often other drivers had to make evasive manouvers because of a blind lane change or how often the driver with the box didn't look before pulling/reversing out onto a main road or any of the other stupid stuff crap motorists do then I'd be less negative about it.
y2blade said:
dtiom said:
The Coop insurance have released an app to show you how their black box works. I've tried it and the results were, shall we say, interesting!
http://www.co-operativeinsurance.co.uk/servlet/Sat...
"YoungDriver" app on itunes.http://www.co-operativeinsurance.co.uk/servlet/Sat...
going to have a play, see how I get on
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