RE: The new 911 GT3: PH Blog
Discussion
It seems some people argue that the GT3 is all about speed, getting around any given track or road quickly - then get a GTR surely??
GT3 for me was about a simplified light weight 911 with racing car DNA, the race car DNA is changing so I suppose so should the GT3's.
If the GT3 was just about going quickly surely it would have a turbo to swell the power and torque figures and maybe 4wd assistance too.
I suspect a stripped out Cayman S with a manual box will be the perfect "drivers" porsche and the one I would pick if I was to spend a chunk of my cash on a new Porsche!
GT3 for me was about a simplified light weight 911 with racing car DNA, the race car DNA is changing so I suppose so should the GT3's.
If the GT3 was just about going quickly surely it would have a turbo to swell the power and torque figures and maybe 4wd assistance too.
I suspect a stripped out Cayman S with a manual box will be the perfect "drivers" porsche and the one I would pick if I was to spend a chunk of my cash on a new Porsche!
I think the focus on current 'race car' technology blurs the point somewhat. Current race cars may not be the most involving and challenging versions of their series history.
The article is a good one. The GT3 was a huge departure from the regular 911 series, with specific attributes. The new one clearly uses a regular 911 as its baseline and alters it to suit what they think 'GT3' should now stand for. Two cars with the same name but derived from opposite poles.
The GT3 is now yet another variation of a theme, rather than utterly unique in its own right, and that is a bad thing.
The article is a good one. The GT3 was a huge departure from the regular 911 series, with specific attributes. The new one clearly uses a regular 911 as its baseline and alters it to suit what they think 'GT3' should now stand for. Two cars with the same name but derived from opposite poles.
The GT3 is now yet another variation of a theme, rather than utterly unique in its own right, and that is a bad thing.
sisu said:
SpeckledJim said:
Imagine a world in which 'auto-steering' was possible. At the push of a fascia button the car, using GPS, telematics, and dozens of cameras and sensors, would take full responsibility for the helm. And it would be preternaturally good. Better than any human. Lap times using auto-steering were always faster.
Would it be within the spirit of this new car for it to be offered with that feature?
If yes, the GT line is dead. If no, then perhaps there's still hope.
It already exists - They have an app for that so to speak at Laguna Seca a TTRS that laps the track without a driver using GPS and image processing to map the best driving line and other cars. It is a second or two off a professional race driver qualifying lap. You can then drive the lap to see how you can improve your braking points and racing line. Would it be within the spirit of this new car for it to be offered with that feature?
If yes, the GT line is dead. If no, then perhaps there's still hope.
Google have been using driverless cars for years now. I would love have the option to switch on the taxi driver in traffic or boring bits.
I have faith that the GT3 is quicker than the outgoing one.
As for the GT3 I have faith that Porsche haven't screwed the pouch in regards to how fast it is.
Would it be fitted to the new GT3? Faster? Yes. Less interactive? Yes.
Where would the point lie at which Porsche neglect to make it faster, in order to protect driver involvement?
I may not be in the market for a GT3, but definitely for other flappy paddle cars.
Just cannot ever imagine buying a car that is supposed to be fun to drive, without a manual gearbox. I feel far too detached from the experience, it makes it boring just pulling the paddles and turning the wheel. People say they can 'concentrate on going fast' with paddles. To be honest when I've driven on track in manual cars it's never interfered with how fast I go, that's just my skill in how to direct the car through a corner.
If you have to have a flappy paddle gearbox in order to concentrate properly on cornering and braking...
Just cannot ever imagine buying a car that is supposed to be fun to drive, without a manual gearbox. I feel far too detached from the experience, it makes it boring just pulling the paddles and turning the wheel. People say they can 'concentrate on going fast' with paddles. To be honest when I've driven on track in manual cars it's never interfered with how fast I go, that's just my skill in how to direct the car through a corner.
If you have to have a flappy paddle gearbox in order to concentrate properly on cornering and braking...
Bobley said:
PDK is 20 years old now. It first appeared in the 962 race car.
Given my ham fisted wheel twirling skills, if I had a GT3 and someone gave me the option of being able to hold onto the steering wheel with both hands whilst shifting I'd be tempted to say yes please.
But I'm not saying that from a 911 purists point of view its what you really want in a road car though.
Derek Bell wasn't a fan either...
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0807_de...
More like 30 years ago. It's not 2003 anymore.Given my ham fisted wheel twirling skills, if I had a GT3 and someone gave me the option of being able to hold onto the steering wheel with both hands whilst shifting I'd be tempted to say yes please.
But I'm not saying that from a 911 purists point of view its what you really want in a road car though.
Derek Bell wasn't a fan either...
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0807_de...
Dan Trent said:
BelfastBoy said:
Just out of curiosity, which is faster on a track - the enthusiasts choice (997 GT3), or the tech-packed everyday easy to drive option (997 Turbo / S)? Anybody know because I've always been curious?
I'll have to dig out some stats but, off the top of my head, a 997.2 GT3 is c. 7:40 round the 'ring, which is about the same as the 991 Carrera 2 S. When they quoted the latter stat at the 991 launch they didn't specify whether that was base spec or fully loaded with PDCC, PASM, PTV, PDK or any other acronyms! Either way, it's a pretty telling demonstration of how much quicker the 991 is, even as a 'base' package. For comparison a GT3 RS 4.0 - manual, obviously - does 7:27 and you'd expect Rohrl and the boys won't be allowed to stop pumping laps in with the all-singing, all-dancing PDK'd, four-wheel steer 991 GT3 until they've beaten that. As it stands they're saying 'sub 7:30' but nothing more than that.
I'll see if I can find the time for Turbos of various guises for comparison...
Cheers,
Dan
"The 2013 Nissan GT-R supercar has lapped Germany’s Nurburgring in the stunningly quick time of 7min19.1sec, making it the ninth-quickest street-legal vehicle in history around the famous Nordschleife circuit."
p.s. "Nissan says the GT-R is capable of going even quicker, too, with the car’s creator claiming it lost half a second in traffic on the hot lap, potentially spoiling a 7:18.6 time."
Carl_Docklands said:
Not sure what your point is? The 991 RSR is running in the GTE class of WEC along side Ferrari, Aston and Chev. No BMW, AMG, Honda, Nissan in GTE and that is my point, Porsche are in to beat Ferrari wherever possible and you cannot do that with a 6 pot engine and no tech.
There are real engineering reasons why these changes are necessary for the GT3, the car will not be fast enough without them.
You want a slower car with move involvement? the new GT3 is not for you, you should buy a 2.7 Cayman with a manual box.
My point was, what does or doesn't happen in FIA GT3 racing is irrelevant for Porsche, they don't enter the series.There are real engineering reasons why these changes are necessary for the GT3, the car will not be fast enough without them.
You want a slower car with move involvement? the new GT3 is not for you, you should buy a 2.7 Cayman with a manual box.
Dr JonboyG said:
Carl_Docklands said:
Not sure what your point is? The 991 RSR is running in the GTE class of WEC along side Ferrari, Aston and Chev. No BMW, AMG, Honda, Nissan in GTE and that is my point, Porsche are in to beat Ferrari wherever possible and you cannot do that with a 6 pot engine and no tech.
There are real engineering reasons why these changes are necessary for the GT3, the car will not be fast enough without them.
You want a slower car with move involvement? the new GT3 is not for you, you should buy a 2.7 Cayman with a manual box.
My point was, what does or doesn't happen in FIA GT3 racing is irrelevant for Porsche, they don't enter the series.There are real engineering reasons why these changes are necessary for the GT3, the car will not be fast enough without them.
You want a slower car with move involvement? the new GT3 is not for you, you should buy a 2.7 Cayman with a manual box.
e.g Marco Holzer (porsche factory driver) for Pro Speed winning the 2010 season were factory backed.
https://www.facebook.com/MarcoHolzer.Porsche.Facto...
If racing is measured solely on the feeling that you get by mastering a machine and the thrill of finding and holding the balance between personal ability and the laws of physics then this piece is spot on.
I have a sneaking suspicion though that other metrics are typically at play.
The GT3 is moving towards being a digital answer to a digital question for the Digital Generation. Perhaps those of a more analogue persuasion should start looking for a more analogue answer to the analogue questions that make life joyful.
I have a sneaking suspicion though that other metrics are typically at play.
The GT3 is moving towards being a digital answer to a digital question for the Digital Generation. Perhaps those of a more analogue persuasion should start looking for a more analogue answer to the analogue questions that make life joyful.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Load of old b
ks.
The gearbox is pdk because the market demands it.
The engine shares a crank case with the carrera? Good I say, gives the 911 more cache especially once the racing cars start using it (as Andreas stated in the evo magazine interview that you guys didn't get yet
). Remember all RS's that went before were based on the standard carrera.
I'm not sure what point you're making about the stickers? Porsche haven't yet released details of an RS but it was always that halo model that was stickered up, the standard gt3 never was.
Remember the gnashed teeth when the first GT3 was released? It was heavier than a standard carrera! I've got an article by some bloke called Harris somewhere from period where he wines on about this very fact.
Oh & by the way, perhaps try commenting once you've driven the car!
Totally agreed. Assumptions all over the place. ks.The gearbox is pdk because the market demands it.
The engine shares a crank case with the carrera? Good I say, gives the 911 more cache especially once the racing cars start using it (as Andreas stated in the evo magazine interview that you guys didn't get yet
). Remember all RS's that went before were based on the standard carrera.I'm not sure what point you're making about the stickers? Porsche haven't yet released details of an RS but it was always that halo model that was stickered up, the standard gt3 never was.
Remember the gnashed teeth when the first GT3 was released? It was heavier than a standard carrera! I've got an article by some bloke called Harris somewhere from period where he wines on about this very fact.
Oh & by the way, perhaps try commenting once you've driven the car!
I think that alot of people misinterpret habit with skill. Driving an old car/motorbike/boat is something that alot of people view as being a better driver.
People who know that something isn't easy to use or live with and make it some form of purgatory punishment. Suffering for your art..
People who know that something isn't easy to use or live with and make it some form of purgatory punishment. Suffering for your art..
Porches biggest problem is why carry on trying to develop the 911 for racing when its obvious the cayman is now the better model for this purpose,they obviously don,t want to upset there valued customers but they now have another model in there car range which with more power and development is better than the 911.
Well, that has to be the most inspired journalistic article i have ever read.
cough!
pretty easy really to make statements like that, as its proven to get the pundits excited.
Please bring on real PH articles like the Action at the ring rather than READING OEMS PRESS PACKS and REGURGITATING them ad hoc.
cough!
pretty easy really to make statements like that, as its proven to get the pundits excited.
Please bring on real PH articles like the Action at the ring rather than READING OEMS PRESS PACKS and REGURGITATING them ad hoc.
lukeschwartz said:
Well, that has to be the most inspired journalistic article i have ever read.
cough!
pretty easy really to make statements like that, as its proven to get the pundits excited.
Please bring on real PH articles like the Action at the ring rather than READING OEMS PRESS PACKS and REGURGITATING them ad hoc.
It's a blog, where a personal opinion is expressed... Nothing serious, now don't go critiquing it like a proper report which will come, I'm sure.cough!
pretty easy really to make statements like that, as its proven to get the pundits excited.
Please bring on real PH articles like the Action at the ring rather than READING OEMS PRESS PACKS and REGURGITATING them ad hoc.
The thing is - the GT3 is supposedly the road-going version of the GT3-class competition cup cars - and they've been sequential boxed (e.g. lever) and are now going paddle shift anyway - so it's actually not going against the racing ethos with a PDK box.
Soo also the M5 - a car which has generally been said to be worse with a manual - times they are a changing...
p.s. also, anyone who brings up 'digital' cars is a fking idiot - digital cars exist in racing games - no car on the road is 'digital' anymore than any other, cars are just evolving, there was no 'line' to cross with electronics, we're just making cars go faster from A to B.
Soo also the M5 - a car which has generally been said to be worse with a manual - times they are a changing...
p.s. also, anyone who brings up 'digital' cars is a f
king idiot - digital cars exist in racing games - no car on the road is 'digital' anymore than any other, cars are just evolving, there was no 'line' to cross with electronics, we're just making cars go faster from A to B.GranCab said:
Still a long way to go to match the GT-R ...
"The 2013 Nissan GT-R supercar has lapped Germany’s Nurburgring in the stunningly quick time of 7min19.1sec, making it the ninth-quickest street-legal vehicle in history around the famous Nordschleife circuit."
p.s. "Nissan says the GT-R is capable of going even quicker, too, with the car’s creator claiming it lost half a second in traffic on the hot lap, potentially spoiling a 7:18.6 time."
Yeah, I wasn't going to introduce the GTR into this debate, as it's always the big elephant in the room where Porsche and 'Ring times are concerned! But if Nissan was slinging a fully-lit GTR around the 'ring, would they not book out the whole track to ensure no "traffic" to spoil the hot laps?! They presumably don't do timed tests during public sessions?"The 2013 Nissan GT-R supercar has lapped Germany’s Nurburgring in the stunningly quick time of 7min19.1sec, making it the ninth-quickest street-legal vehicle in history around the famous Nordschleife circuit."
p.s. "Nissan says the GT-R is capable of going even quicker, too, with the car’s creator claiming it lost half a second in traffic on the hot lap, potentially spoiling a 7:18.6 time."
Back to my earlier question: 997 Turbo/S vs 997 GT3 - which is faster on a track? Dan provided some info for the GT3 but is the Turbo a good and fast track car?
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