RE: LaFerrari vs McLaren P1 vs Veneno: Aero Battles

[noble12345]

Also the Veneno "only" has 500kgs of downforce i believe, so it has more weight. less power, less downforce.. more drag? but it does have italian racing stripes which adds 1500bhp

[TobyLaRohne]

Transmitter Man said:

jon- said:

Taken from another thread:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ron-dennis-on-t...

Apparently the P1 has been around the Top Gear track and is 10 seconds faster than a Hyuara on cut slicks.

If that's accurate it makes it insanely fast, and the biggest step forward in supercars we've had in a long time.

Quicker than the Ultima?

Phil

might want to read that again chaps...

"he went on to reveal that he himself had beaten the current Star In A Reasonably Priced Car record around Dunsfold in the P1 by 10 seconds."

[jcl]

As others have said, the P1 is something else entirely. In fact, I think it makes the LAF look like a bit of an embarrassing effort. Sure the engine will be immense but is it contemporary? I bet the P1 engine is far lighter and compact even with the big turbos.

Also think about the carbon tub, active suspension, active braking etc on the 12C. Yet it's cheaper than a 458. Okay it may not be as "exciting" but the 12C and P1 are McLaren's first production cars... I personally think Ferrari are going to have to rely increasingly heavily on their historic reputation in the future. I can see McLaren being untouchable in the Supercar market by the time the next models arrive.

[Crusoe]

I was closing fast ready to pull out and overtake when I got into the dirty air of the car infront and understeered off the road

[Dr Z]

Crusoe said:

I was closing fast ready to pull out and overtake when I got into the dirty air of the car infront and understeered off the road

Should have used the DRS button. It's on the steering wheel.

[Dagnut]

noble12345 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT7Qsg2tLDc

the problem with ferraris is the muppets who drive up your arse, pull out and block your mirrors on a sliproad, overtake you, cause you to loose your temper and floor it in the rain crashing into a barrier... while being filmed by the idiot who made you do it.. all of which might have been avoided in a lambo.. you could have crashed all on your own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pgm8I0B8bY

So how long before a muppet crashes one of these new beauties!?

LOL The contrast between the videos.....the american kids are laughing at the guy crashing his lambo....the Italians are acting like someone has dropped a baby on it's head

[isaldiri]

Streetrod said:

Maybe I did not explain myself well. The Egg is a massively quick dragster. Although there record times have recently been beaten. What I was pointing too was its overall performance. For some reason the Koenigsegg Agera R, which has been around a lot longer than any of the current hypercars has failed to log any competitive lap times. It has had its chance at the Ring and at the TG track but they have not posted times.
I have to ask the reason why. When I posed the question to Koenigsegg directly they said they were unable to answer and had no plans in the future to do so. Now Koenigsegg have declared that they want to be classed as one of the best in the sector and love them of hate them Lap times are important at this level if only to stake your technical marker. So it seems odd that given the opportunity to have grabbed a couple of records and held them for at least a year they decided not too.

It is only for the above reasons I have a question mark over the Egg. In all other things I think it is a remarkable car

Cannot quite agree with your premise that the Agera has not had an official manufacturer time set for either the Top gear lap or Ring time and therefore is lacking something compared to other cars in that segment. Would it really mean anything for Koenigsegg to turn up with a specially tweaked car running special components and/or cut slick tyres just to do a lap that they can then brag about?

I am actually quite glad that Koenigsegg have not chosen to engage in the slightly silly willy waving contest of manufacturer declared Ring times to be honest.

[Harry H]

Gotta agree it's a stupid name. Also very short sighted. If it's "The Ferrari" what the hell are they going to call it's successor. Or are they saying "that's it this is the last Hyper Car we'll ever build, from now on we're going to compete with the Toyota Prius"

[rlc18]

This is how I see things:

P1 = Lionel Messi; Built for speed and precision, it may not be the prettiest looking thing out there but what it wants to do is strive to be the best at it in every way possible.

LaFerrari = Cristiano Ronaldo; an awesome contender loves to show off and buy nice clothes and toys still fast and great at what it does but it’s all about looking good rather than taking care of business. Which may not be a bad thing by the way.

Veneno = Mario Balotelli; ugly as sin with a stupid Mohawk and about as much style and class as opening a bottle of fine champagne with a sledge hammer. It couldn't dress itself if its life depended on it but by god you just can’t stop looking at it, with either appreciation or disgust you either love it or hate it.

Don't ask me why I felt I needed to use footballers as metaphors because I have no idea why. I don't even like football that much.

Anyway, personally I think McLaren have absolutely blown the competition out the water. Even if it doesn't end up being the fastest (which let’s be honest it will be) I'd still put my money on it. I think it looks fantastic from every angle. It has real presence, its screaming "LOOK AT ME! I'M HERE! WHO WANTS TO LOSE?" it's spent hours in the gym, its always been the first one in and the last to leave.

I'll probably never even see one in the flesh let alone drive it but it'll be the screensaver on my phone (the Modern Bedroom Poster) for some time to come.

Thanks
Ryan

[Dr Z]

^LOL. Good post and top lurking!

[will261058]

Oh yummy, I like them all but come on McLaren

[hairykrishna]

isaldiri said:

I am actually quite glad that Koenigsegg have not chosen to engage in the slightly silly willy waving contest of manufacturer declared Ring times to be honest.

I'm not convinced. Their trumpeting of their various straight line records suggests to me that they're not adverse to a bit of willy waving. I strongly suspect that it might be that posting a very fast ring time is a great deal more difficult than building something which will go down a runway at ludicrous speeds.

[juansolo]

Dr Z said:

Funkstar De Luxe said:

bnracing said:

If I wanted a fast car round a track I would buy a race car at about 10% of the price of one of these cars. If I want an amazing supercar with pure class and attention to detail like no other car then Pagani would get my money every time.
If only I had the money lol.

That's still about £150,000.

And that's still £150,000 more than what I've got to spend, so my opinions don't count... (apparently)

If you're wanting to experience downforce in a non-competetive (trackday) environment, Radicals/Junos/Normas/etc can be had for about half that, give or take. All of them will be quicker around a track than anything that wears treaded tyres and number plates. Anything quicker than these I reckon are too quick for trackdays. If I'm being honest, they really are on the edge also and are really only suited to larger circuits.

Putting the cost to one side for the moment also. Why you'd take any of the super cars over the above track cars to use around a race track is beyond me. Why would you want a more disconnected experience? When for relative peanuts you can strap yourself into something that's built for purpose?

[wtdoom]

"Norma" is worse than " LaFerrari ".
We need a worst names thread .

[philis]

Streetrod said:

The Egg technically looks very clever, is very fast in a straight line but has yet to prove it’s self around a track and post a competitive time. And having spoken to the Koenigsegg guys over on Teamspeed it appears they are not interested in getting involved in that particular fight, I wonder why??

Because only people with beards are interested in lap times.

[Caractacus]

philis said:

Because only people with beards are interested in lap times.

Tosh.

Apart from the standard straight line tests for cars of the sporting variety, how else can folk determine whether one car is potentially better at the twisty stuff than another?

[Zombie]

IF the new Big Mac and and lafezza end up in a direct comparison, would anyone like to bet the fezza sounds a little more hard core than "others" recall it being? The tyres maybe more akin to superglue than hubba bubba?

hashtag Chris Harris...

No. Not a Mclaren Fan Boy... I'd have the Fezza, (despite it's deeply stupid name) given the choice. Just call me cynical...

And I'd rather have a Caparo over either of em or a Singer 911.

Insert no mention of THAT abomination marauding as a Lamborghini here

[Condi]

philis said:

Because only people with beards are interested in lap times.

Its a sports car..... Its been designed to go fast round tracks then made to be road legal and have more appeal.

The Ferrari FFX, which you can only drive round tracks, would be a hard sell without lap times.

[philis]

Caractacus said:

philis said:

Because only people with beards are interested in lap times.

Tosh.

Apart from the standard straight line tests for cars of the sporting variety, how else can folk determine whether one car is potentially better at the twisty stuff than another?

By Driving it?
Obviously that aint gona happen but i wouldn't be interested if it were 5% slower round a track than a P1 or Fezza, especially if it was more fun and easier out on the road, who honestly gives a flying feck about downforce and ground effect on uk roads?

Just because Mr koennigsegg doesn't seem interested in taking these two on at their own game doesn't mean he cant have the better of them in other areas.

"look at me im the fastest" aint cool

[Dblue]

philis said:

Caractacus said:

philis said:

Because only people with beards are interested in lap times.

Tosh.

Apart from the standard straight line tests for cars of the sporting variety, how else can folk determine whether one car is potentially better at the twisty stuff than another?

By Driving it?
Obviously that aint gona happen but i wouldn't be interested if it were 5% slower round a track than a P1 or Fezza, especially if it was more fun and easier out on the road, who honestly gives a flying feck about downforce and ground effect on uk roads?

Just because Mr koennigsegg doesn't seem interested in taking these two on at their own game doesn't mean he cant have the better of them in other areas.

"look at me im the fastest" aint cool

Its not quite that though is it. It's look at me, I've got the most high tech , cleverest, sophisticated know how money can buy (And proper F1 heritage in both cases)
They are game changing, ground breaking machines. The others including Pagani and Konigsegg can't hope to compete with McLaren and Ferrari in that respect so they work on appearance, style, presence.

Fair enough, I love em, but it's bling by comparison. they don't quite have the gravitas of the alpha dogs !