RE: LaFerrari vs McLaren P1 vs Veneno: Aero Battles

[bnracing]

If I wanted a fast car round a track I would buy a race car at about 10% of the price of one of these cars. If I want an amazing supercar with pure class and attention to detail like no other car then Pagani would get my money every time.
If only I had the money lol.

[Evo]

jon- said:

Taken from another thread:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ron-dennis-on-t...

Apparently the P1 has been around the Top Gear track and is 10 seconds faster than a Hyuara on cut slicks.

If that's accurate it makes it insanely fast, and the biggest step forward in supercars we've had in a long time.

The P1 has been round that track many many times

[BelfastBoy]

Personally, I like the P1 more than the LaFerrari (although in this sort of debate, how can there ever be a loser?). However, the last time Ron Dennis indulged in the trash talking, it was prior to the launch of the MP4-12C. While the car itself has turned out to be an excellent vehicle, I seem to remember some of Ron's comments coming back to haunt him when all the well-reported problems with IRIS etc cropped up and remained issues for quite some time!

[V8 FOU]

Mark-C said:

I'd need a fair bit more than that myself

When you get to my age lad, etc etc.....

[k-ink]

bnracing said:

If I wanted a fast car round a track I would buy a race car at about 10% of the price of one of these cars. If I want an amazing supercar with pure class and attention to detail like no other car then Pagani would get my money every time.
If only I had the money lol.

By attention to detail I think you mean nice stitching and aligned carbon weave. That is purely cosmetic fluff. I think McLaren have considered things here which Pagani don't even know about. As a technical package I am sure the P1 will be in another league to all else.

[astrsxi77]

Captain Muppet said:

"He also said he'd personally broken the Top Gear track lap time by 10 seconds in the P1."

How long until James May has a massive hissy fit about cars being ruined because they are developed to get a good time on the TG track?

This will occur when Richard Porter writes it into the script.

[bnracing]

k-ink said:

bnracing said:

If I wanted a fast car round a track I would buy a race car at about 10% of the price of one of these cars. If I want an amazing supercar with pure class and attention to detail like no other car then Pagani would get my money every time.
If only I had the money lol.

By attention to detail I think you mean nice stitching and aligned carbon weave. That is purely cosmetic fluff. I think McLaren have considered things here which Pagani don't even know about. As a technical package I am sure the P1 will be in another league to all else.

Maybe the P1 will be faster but so what. I want more than just a fast car.
I find a car full of tech very boring, a computer is full of technology maybe that's the sort of thing you like but not for me. You don't get a car full of technology that is also full of character. All of Pagani's cars are full of character yes it's the stitching, the aligned weave, the body panels that are perfect inside and out, the Titanium exhaust that has been perfectly hand crafted and perfected for the noise it produces oh and don't forget the name plates that takes 24hrs to machine. This is all stuff that to me makes Pagani's cars a class above the rest. If I want to go quick round a race track that's very easy to buy. These hypercars have become pointless and characterless.

This is just my opinion as a designer, I know people do not share the same opinion lol.

You can buy technology, but hand crafted perfection and incredible attention to detail is much harder to come by in this day and age.

Edited by bnracing on Monday 11th March 13:50

Edited by bnracing on Monday 11th March 13:52

[George29]

bnracing said:

...oh and don't forget the name plates that take 24hrs to machine.

They must have a ste engineering process if they take 24 hours to machine a name plate!

[k-ink]

bnracing said:

Maybe the P1 will be faster but so what. I want more than just a fast car.
I find a car full of tech very boring, a computer is full of technology maybe that's the sort of thing you like but not for me. You don't get a car full of technology that is also full of character. All of Pagani's cars are full of character yes it's the stitching, the aligned weave, the body panels that are perfect inside and out, the Titanium exhaust that has been perfectly hand crafted and perfected for the noise it produces oh and don't forget the name plates that take 24hrs to machine. This is all stuff that to me makes Pagani's cars a class above the rest. If I want to go quick round a race track that's very easy to buy. These hypercars have become pointless and characterless.

This is just my opinion as a designer, I know people do not share the same opinion lol.

You can buy technology, but hand crafted perfection and incredible attention to detail is much harder to come by in this day and age.

Ok, it sounds like what you want is character above all else. If so then fine, I agree the Zonda is one of my favorites too. It is simple, well made and sounds better than most things ever made. But that is only one way to approach a supercar design. Obviously the P1 takes the full on technical tour de force route, which is undoubtedly the future and will be faster etc. Same story as the 458 v MP4. Horses for courses.

[Dr Z]

bnracing said:

<snip>
You can buy technology, but hand crafted perfection and incredible attention to detail is much harder to come by in this day and age.

OK, you like bling, fine. Noted.

But, I like the incredible attention to detail of the engineering kind, which there is plenty of in that Ferrari thing and the P1. Don't care if the P1 doesn't have the bling, but it certainly gets me salivating seeing all that aero work and the sculpted rear, like a fine-tuned race car.

Edited by Dr Z on Monday 11th March 14:01

[bnracing]

George29 said:

They must have a ste engineering process if they take 24 hours to machine a name plate!

Can't be bothered to do a full reply it would be wasted on you lol.

[George29]

bnracing said:

Can't be bothered to do a full reply it would be wasted on you lol.

Why is that then? I'd be quite keen to see this name plate if it supposedly takes 24 hours to machine. I'd be fairly safe in saying I've seen more complex components machined in less than 24 hours... it sounds like marketing bks to me personally

[bnracing]

Dr Z said:

OK, you like bling, fine. Noted.

OK, so you like plastic and parts from China. Noted :-)

[hairykrishna]

bnracing said:

You can buy technology, but hand crafted perfection and incredible attention to detail is much harder

All of these mega money hypercars are hand crafted and have obsessive attention to detail.

[bnracing]

George29 said:

Why is that then? I'd be quite keen to see this name plate if it supposedly takes 24 hours to machine. I'd be fairly safe in saying I've seen more complex components machined in less than 24 hours... it sounds like marketing bks to me personally

Check youtube for the Pagani Huyara videos I think it's show on one of those.

[bnracing]

hairykrishna said:

All of these mega money hypercars are hand crafted and have obsessive attention to detail.

If you ever buy a hypercar keep telling yourself that and you will sleep easier at night :-)

[George29]

bnracing said:

Check youtube for the Pagani Huyara videos I think it's show on one of those.

I stand by my previous comment. There is no way that takes 24 hours to machine from solid.

[jamespink]

GroundEffect said:

I love the whole talk of downforce figures when they don't state at what speed they are actually achieved at.

600kg of downforce at 350kph isn't all that impressive to be honest, with other cars (Pagani Cinque is above that I believe) matching or beating it
600kg of downforce at 160kph would be fantastic!

Not a big deal to achieve that, just that the car would look like one of those short track dirt racers with an advertising hoarding on the roof... Very smart!

[bnracing]

George29 said:

I stand by my previous comment. There is no way that takes 24 hours to machine from solid.

Ok, so you can obviously see from the video how they bk off the material with big feed rates and big cutters. How they don't bother to machine the back of the part, how the finish is as rough as you like. How the part is just clamped on to the table not in a perfect jig.

[George29]

bnracing said:

Ok so you can obviously see from the video how they bk off the material with big feed rates and big cutters. How they don't bother to machine the back of the part, how the finish is as rough as you like. How the part if just clamped on to the table not is a perfect jig.

I'm not really going to bother arguing. If you had any engineering nouse about you and have ever seen a machine shop, you will know that 24 hours for that on a CNC machine is utter bks. That's 2 hours tops. Chances are it will just be scanned with a really fine step over.