RE: SOTW: Renault Vel Satis
Discussion
caprirob said:
Sacre Bleu ! Yet another fetid gallic turd !
£890 don't make me laugh - £150 a ton is all its worth.
.............Says the man who drives a Hyundai Coupe!!£890 don't make me laugh - £150 a ton is all its worth.
...always makes me laugh reading pistonheads, one mans monet is another mans monster...FWIW, Ive always had a soft spot for these cars. Im not saying Id buy one (I drive a boring passat after all), but I like cars that are different and this one is certainly that....
The Crack Fox said:
I can't believe the hatred on here for these, OK, so you'll probably need AA cover but it's a million times more interesting than anything Renault currently make and makes the usual German barges seem as stylish as a sandal.
Top shed.
Exactly.Top shed.
Although I would argue that Renault are starting to make some pretty interesting cars again... the new Megane coupe is a bold design that is really starting to grow on me, and the Twizy and Zoe although rather niche are certainly different! The Twingo is also far more stylish inside and out than any of its dreary sub-compact rivals... come to think of it, the Espace IV is still by far the best looking MPV even after almost a decade...
Despite loving cars I rarely made a special trip to see something new in a dealer's showroom. With two exceptions - the Aventime and the Mazda RX8.
On entering a London based Renault dealership the receptionist asked if I'd like some help. After telling the nominated "Large & Specialist Car" Sales Exec that I was simply curious to take a closer look at how the doors opened (as I'd read about how they initially opened in a kind of arc) he still took the time to show me around.
My lasting memory was how, after a little probing, the Sales Exec explained how ne'd left a Mercedes Benz dealership to work for Renault. When I expressed a little surprise at how he'd opt to walk away from the almost guaranteed commission he could earn by selling Mercs, to an almost thankless task of trying to shift some (albeit quirky and interesting) French stuff, he explained how fed up he was of pre populating the new car order forms at M-B with "Silver" for the colour, getting squeezed on price by well informed customers and then getting stuck in the middle if and when things went wrong and the dealership failed to meet all of the customers high expectations.
Back to the point - I kind of liked the Vel Satis too.
On entering a London based Renault dealership the receptionist asked if I'd like some help. After telling the nominated "Large & Specialist Car" Sales Exec that I was simply curious to take a closer look at how the doors opened (as I'd read about how they initially opened in a kind of arc) he still took the time to show me around.
My lasting memory was how, after a little probing, the Sales Exec explained how ne'd left a Mercedes Benz dealership to work for Renault. When I expressed a little surprise at how he'd opt to walk away from the almost guaranteed commission he could earn by selling Mercs, to an almost thankless task of trying to shift some (albeit quirky and interesting) French stuff, he explained how fed up he was of pre populating the new car order forms at M-B with "Silver" for the colour, getting squeezed on price by well informed customers and then getting stuck in the middle if and when things went wrong and the dealership failed to meet all of the customers high expectations.
Back to the point - I kind of liked the Vel Satis too.
If you don't own a VS or haven't driven one...can you comment with any credibility? Those who own them usually love them. There's a little bit of hate now and again, when the electrics create a surprise or the engine overheats, but by and large they are beautiful creations, characterful, comfortable friends who waft you to the fuel station in eager anticipation of another £100's worth of sustinance. You can drive 200 miles without seeing another Vel but when you do, you will get a friendly wave and a knowing nod.
I'm on my second VS now & despite it's flaws I'm dreading the day when I will sell this friend. I have this feeling that I'll always yearn have the car back. it has a certain'Je ne sais quoi'
I'm on my second VS now & despite it's flaws I'm dreading the day when I will sell this friend. I have this feeling that I'll always yearn have the car back. it has a certain'Je ne sais quoi'
I've had my Vel Satis 2.0T since 2007, and I wouldn't ever envisage getting rid of it. There is something about it that gets under your skin and digs in, other Vel owners will know exactly what I mean. I can also safely say that its the best AND worst car I've ever owned, however, using a high quality engine oil changed frequently, will make the world of difference. I'd buy another one, or an Avantime in the morning if I had the cash spare!!
There are 199 of this exact model still registered, and 21 SORN according to www.howmanyleft.co.uk
Considering the smallish number originally sold it's not a bad survival rate (333 originally sold, and about 90% of those before 2003). Maybe it's worth a punt if you need something like this, and you can knock a few quid of the asking price.
However, as real shedders all know from the start, a lot of these "interesting" cars are scrappers or parts cars if anything major goes south. If you get a year of good motoring out of it without any disasters (remember it's complicated, parts will be pricey, French and 11 years old) then you're doing great.
Considering the smallish number originally sold it's not a bad survival rate (333 originally sold, and about 90% of those before 2003). Maybe it's worth a punt if you need something like this, and you can knock a few quid of the asking price.
However, as real shedders all know from the start, a lot of these "interesting" cars are scrappers or parts cars if anything major goes south. If you get a year of good motoring out of it without any disasters (remember it's complicated, parts will be pricey, French and 11 years old) then you're doing great.
I seem to remember Clarkson positively raving (in a positive way) on TG about these. Bit of a Marmite car really .... and I confess that I really can't make my mind up if I like it or not. I DO like the Avantime though!
As for the seats ....... the write up says "They’re as cossetting as they look".
Not very cosseting then.
As for the seats ....... the write up says "They’re as cossetting as they look".
Not very cosseting then.
I have a Vel Satis and an Avantime - both brilliant at very different things. If I was to drive one everyday it would be the Vel Satis! Absolutely love them, yet to come across a more capable motorway cruiser for the money. My 3.0 diesel V6 did 45 MPG on the 300 mile trip from the midlands to Stranraer 
ZOLLAR said:
kVA said:
Ha ha - I worked on the UK launch of the 'Velvet Settee' and will never forget phoning the Event Manager one morning to say he might need to source another one for my session, as this one was on fire!!!
The 'Millenium Falcon' (as it also got nick-named) won a couple of awards that I recall with some delight: Tow-Car of the year, by the Caravan Club (I think) and 'Worst Handling Car' by Top Gear... There was some test where they drove at 50 mph towards a sharp bend and turned the wheel at a set point and measured the deviation from the steered angle... The Vel Satis just kept going straight... LOL
...
The 'Millenium Falcon' (as it also got nick-named) won a couple of awards that I recall with some delight: Tow-Car of the year, by the Caravan Club (I think) and 'Worst Handling Car' by Top Gear... There was some test where they drove at 50 mph towards a sharp bend and turned the wheel at a set point and measured the deviation from the steered angle... The Vel Satis just kept going straight... LOL
...beeblebrox said:
Putting that in context: "its new-age suspension having cleverly substituted jarring choppiness for the old-gen Renaults’ silky compliance."
Indicates that it had replaced silky compliance with jarring choppiness.
There's some real hilarity in this thread Indicates that it had replaced silky compliance with jarring choppiness.
It's a brilliant read, so much so that I'm almost tempted to buy one to see what goes wrong first 
.mwstewart said:
There's some real hilarity in this thread It's a brilliant read, so much so that I'm almost tempted to buy one to see what goes wrong first .
OK, I saved the best story for last... The brand spanking new top of the range (Haut-de-Gamme, even It's a brilliant read, so much so that I'm almost tempted to buy one to see what goes wrong first .
) that I was meant to collect on Friday night, to drive to the first event at Turnberry on Sunday, fell off the top deck of the transporter!!! Electric park-brake failed (and the delivery driver was still in it!!!!) 
He was rather shaken but the airbags did their job! However, a banana-shaped Vel-Satis probably wasn't going to impress many people, so the only replacement car available was substituted... A poverty-spec, solid paint, no extras, 2.0 litre snail of a car that had been taken apart and (partially, as it transpired) put back together, as it had spent the previous 6 weeks being used for technicians training! Nothing bloody worked and the 7 hour drive to Turnberry, in snow, with no climate control or radio, was miserable... In fact it was so bad, that I opted for the support car 'hack' of a boggo Clio, for the drive home!!! Oh, nearly forgot... Something was wrong with the very clever new filler neck design: First refill resulted in about 2 litres of Shell's finest all over my trousers, as it came back out faster than it went in!!! It actually took 20 minutes to dribble enough fuel in the tank to complete the journey!
So, in case you hadn't guessed already, I won't be queuing up to buy the next SOTW Vel Satis!!!! LOL
If an Avantime comes up for this money though - where do I sign
From some angles the beasts are not too bad...the looks grow on you (they age well IMHO) and if you get the 350z engined version (QE unit was world engine of the year for a decade....) there are some great Nismo upgrades available (although torque steer is a pig). With upgraded springs it will handle well for a barge too. We regularly cruise down to Toulouse/Perpignan in southern France from the UK and I get 30 mpg and she will sit at the legal limit and beyond 5 up with kit. Nippy when you need it too with approx 260 bhp (245 standard) on tap. Has full leather, sat nav blah. Great bargain wagon IMHO....would not hesitate to buy another if needed.
Turbolader said:
Sat here watching Total Recall and can't help but think this quirky old French barge looks not dissimilar to the 'Johnny Taxi', ignoring the additional pair of wheels.
Or perhaps it's just me
:-D
I love quirky cars and the Vel Satis is a very good one and in many ways quite a bargain. I recommended the VS in the past and the buyers are still happy, but there are a few issues.
The ride is OK, the VS just hates potholes and bumps, so if you live in an area with bad street conditions, think again.
The seats and the seating position are great for most drivers, but you really need to test drive the VS. The mix of limousine and MPV means throne-like chairs which are a bit higher than usual. Some drivers just don't find a comfortable seat position despite the numerous electric controls and the leather is of good quality but a bit slippery.
The VS is big, really big. So even though it looks like a Gran Touring hatchback, the city is not it's natural habitat.
Comparing the VS to the Avantime is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. The Avantime was Renaults' great looking black sheep and based on the previous generation Espace. The Avantime shares very little with the VS and the then "new" Espace IV. It was Renaults unloved goodbye gift to long-time partner Matra - or a kiss of death...
The VS and the Espace IV however share chassis, suspension, engines, gear boxes, mechanics, electronics... They are non-identical twins. The VS however is not sharing the chassis dimensions with the "short" Espace, but with the 20 cm longer "Grand Espace".
The Espace is just a better in every way, ride, seating position, space - and when compared with the normal version, length s well. These 20cm make all the difference.
Of course the Espace is more expensive, but not so much when the engine of choice is the Nissan-sourced 3.5 V6. And re-selling an Espace is far easier.
Mechanically both the Espace and the VS are pretty good and reliable. Faults are usually electronics, for example the tire pressure sensors. Some spares are expensive, so most owners simply live with these faults as long as they can just be ignored. The auto-box is another topic, you can read some tips on on vel-satis.org, but despite my best efforts, the auto-box always is a bit harsh when starting from stand-still - I found the best way is to choose the manual option for the initial acceleration and then switch to auto.
The 3.0 V6 Diesel however is a real problem when regularly driving at motorway speeds. In Germany, many company-car drivers have initially welcomed this Isuszu-sourced engine as a refreshing alternative to the Audis, BMWs and Mercs long-distance high speed cruisers. The engine was offered in the Laguna, Espace, the VS, but also in the Opel/Vauxhall Signum/Vectra and the Saab 9-5.
In all of these cars, this engine was a major source of trouble. Initially the manufacturers just replaced the engines and Isuzu paid the bill. When warranty ran out, owners were faced with huge costs and the problem became very obvious in the mid-2000s. Renault desperately advised dealers to remove the plastic dealer "covers" of the number plates in order to allow better airflow into the engine bay - crazy and ineffective.
The reason is the transversely mounted engine and the resulting differences in temperatures and material mix for the Isuzu motor. And so far no one seems to have found a solution, for either preventing the problem or repairing the engine. Because Renault and GM ignored and dis-owned the problem (blaming Isuzu). Even the replacement engines hevane't been any better so far and minor modifications of the facelifts didn't help either. GM stopped selling this engine after a few years, but Renault continued offering this crappy motor even after the facelift in 2005.
My guess is Renault simply played a game of numbers and assumed that
Enjoy the Espace and VS and choose the petrol versions, especially the Nissan 3.5 V6. Convert it to LPG / Autogas if regularly used.
more details of that controversy here
The ride is OK, the VS just hates potholes and bumps, so if you live in an area with bad street conditions, think again.
The seats and the seating position are great for most drivers, but you really need to test drive the VS. The mix of limousine and MPV means throne-like chairs which are a bit higher than usual. Some drivers just don't find a comfortable seat position despite the numerous electric controls and the leather is of good quality but a bit slippery.
The VS is big, really big. So even though it looks like a Gran Touring hatchback, the city is not it's natural habitat.
Comparing the VS to the Avantime is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. The Avantime was Renaults' great looking black sheep and based on the previous generation Espace. The Avantime shares very little with the VS and the then "new" Espace IV. It was Renaults unloved goodbye gift to long-time partner Matra - or a kiss of death...
The VS and the Espace IV however share chassis, suspension, engines, gear boxes, mechanics, electronics... They are non-identical twins. The VS however is not sharing the chassis dimensions with the "short" Espace, but with the 20 cm longer "Grand Espace".
The Espace is just a better in every way, ride, seating position, space - and when compared with the normal version, length s well. These 20cm make all the difference.
Of course the Espace is more expensive, but not so much when the engine of choice is the Nissan-sourced 3.5 V6. And re-selling an Espace is far easier.
Mechanically both the Espace and the VS are pretty good and reliable. Faults are usually electronics, for example the tire pressure sensors. Some spares are expensive, so most owners simply live with these faults as long as they can just be ignored. The auto-box is another topic, you can read some tips on on vel-satis.org, but despite my best efforts, the auto-box always is a bit harsh when starting from stand-still - I found the best way is to choose the manual option for the initial acceleration and then switch to auto.
The 3.0 V6 Diesel however is a real problem when regularly driving at motorway speeds. In Germany, many company-car drivers have initially welcomed this Isuszu-sourced engine as a refreshing alternative to the Audis, BMWs and Mercs long-distance high speed cruisers. The engine was offered in the Laguna, Espace, the VS, but also in the Opel/Vauxhall Signum/Vectra and the Saab 9-5.
In all of these cars, this engine was a major source of trouble. Initially the manufacturers just replaced the engines and Isuzu paid the bill. When warranty ran out, owners were faced with huge costs and the problem became very obvious in the mid-2000s. Renault desperately advised dealers to remove the plastic dealer "covers" of the number plates in order to allow better airflow into the engine bay - crazy and ineffective.
The reason is the transversely mounted engine and the resulting differences in temperatures and material mix for the Isuzu motor. And so far no one seems to have found a solution, for either preventing the problem or repairing the engine. Because Renault and GM ignored and dis-owned the problem (blaming Isuzu). Even the replacement engines hevane't been any better so far and minor modifications of the facelifts didn't help either. GM stopped selling this engine after a few years, but Renault continued offering this crappy motor even after the facelift in 2005.
My guess is Renault simply played a game of numbers and assumed that
- in most countries with restricted motorways and owners who don't drive long distances at higher speeds this failure would occur later and over a longer stretch of time
- and most importantly, it would only become visible when a critical number of owners make their problem public, which is relatively unlikely in most countries due to low sales of that engine.
Enjoy the Espace and VS and choose the petrol versions, especially the Nissan 3.5 V6. Convert it to LPG / Autogas if regularly used.
more details of that controversy here
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