RE: Megane 265 Cup and Subaru BRZ: Fast vs Fun
Discussion
W124 said:
I don't buy the EVO article. It's like the music critic from the Guardian saying he 'doesn't like Jazz'- it's just a wind up. I've driven both cars and the BRZ/GT-86 is fast. It's a fast as a Civic Type R. That's quick enough. I love the Megane, it's the best hot hatch by a country mile but it's no match for the Toyobaru. When I drove the BRZ the last thing I thought was 'needs more power' - I just thought 'This is f
king brilliant' - The Megane, world class braking balance and all, will be eclipsed by the next bonkers hatch. The GT86/BRZ has depth.
As an aside, after Millbrook last year, at the end of the day, the Renault press Megane was in a pretty poor state. Creaking, smoking brakes, rattles - strong chemical smells abounding. The BRZ by contrast, which had been driven just as hard, was much fresher. The only challenge I can see for it is the next MX-5, which can't be far away.
Yeah, twins performance is good enough for winning it's own group in VLN endurance racing, so i think it's enough for road car too..king brilliant' - The Megane, world class braking balance and all, will be eclipsed by the next bonkers hatch. The GT86/BRZ has depth.As an aside, after Millbrook last year, at the end of the day, the Renault press Megane was in a pretty poor state. Creaking, smoking brakes, rattles - strong chemical smells abounding. The BRZ by contrast, which had been driven just as hard, was much fresher. The only challenge I can see for it is the next MX-5, which can't be far away.
But i bet that GT86 is much cheaper to track and drive hard than any hot hatch. I believe these new hot hatches are very expensive to run when they are getting little bit older, but twins spare parts are cheap and they are very gentle for tires and brakes and so on. And the best part is that twins are made for petrolheads
They are actually quite beautiful cars with classical sports car lines. Long hood, low side profile and beautiful lines.What's not to like?
MC Bodge said:
You can't win at this:
Same goes for megane too. Both are slow cars which will be raped when the big boys arrive. So, in the end it doesn't matter which car is less slower than other, cos they are both slow. 
Luckily there is so much more in driving enjoyment/car owning than just outright speed, so GT86/or other classical sports car for me
Edited by LasseV on Thursday 28th March 10:08
I've driven both over some nice roads and have to say that the GT86 is one of the most disappointing cars I've driven. Yes, the seating position is great and so is the gearchange. Everything else is pants. The engine feels breathless, my old Alfa GT 2.0 sounded better and felt faster. The steering is not "good for an EPS system" it has zero feel and is average for any car, let alone a sports one. It feels light yet ragged to drive. It has zero practicality on top of that and is too expensive. Here in Switzerland, less then 1800 gbp difference with the BMW M135i which is a miles better car. Heck, the Megane can be had 5-7000 pounds cheaper too and is amazing and practical.
The only party trick the GT86 has is oversteer and it's a bit rubbish at that. I am not a driving god and using weight transfer to induce oversteer on public roads is idiocy. Driving ban for sure if spotted.
The only party trick the GT86 has is oversteer and it's a bit rubbish at that. I am not a driving god and using weight transfer to induce oversteer on public roads is idiocy. Driving ban for sure if spotted.
W124 said:
I don't buy the EVO article. It's like the music critic from the Guardian saying he 'doesn't like Jazz'- it's just a wind up. I've driven both cars and the BRZ/GT-86 is fast. It's a fast as a Civic Type R. That's quick enough. I love the Megane, it's the best hot hatch by a country mile but it's no match for the Toyobaru. When I drove the BRZ the last thing I thought was 'needs more power' - I just thought 'This is fking brilliant' - The Megane, world class braking balance and all, will be eclipsed by the next bonkers hatch. The GT86/BRZ has depth.
As an aside, after Millbrook last year, at the end of the day, the Renault press Megane was in a pretty poor state. Creaking, smoking brakes, rattles - strong chemical smells abounding. The BRZ by contrast, which had been driven just as hard, was much fresher. The only challenge I can see for it is the next MX-5, which can't be far away.
The Toyobaru felt fresher because it struggles to reach any meaningful speeds.king brilliant' - The Megane, world class braking balance and all, will be eclipsed by the next bonkers hatch. The GT86/BRZ has depth.As an aside, after Millbrook last year, at the end of the day, the Renault press Megane was in a pretty poor state. Creaking, smoking brakes, rattles - strong chemical smells abounding. The BRZ by contrast, which had been driven just as hard, was much fresher. The only challenge I can see for it is the next MX-5, which can't be far away.
Nikolai Petroff said:
I've driven both over some nice roads and have to say that the GT86 is one of the most disappointing cars I've driven. Yes, the seating position is great and so is the gearchange. Everything else is pants. The engine feels breathless, my old Alfa GT 2.0 sounded better and felt faster. The steering is not "good for an EPS system" it has zero feel and is average for any car, let alone a sports one. It feels light yet ragged to drive. It has zero practicality on top of that and is too expensive. Here in Switzerland, less then 1800 gbp difference with the BMW M135i which is a miles better car. Heck, the Megane can be had 5-7000 pounds cheaper too and is amazing and practical.
The only party trick the GT86 has is oversteer and it's a bit rubbish at that. I am not a driving god and using weight transfer to induce oversteer on public roads is idiocy. Driving ban for sure if spotted.
Perfectly sums up my experience with it too. 200bhp is probably just about enough for this car but it's the way it delivers it that is so disappointing and that's only one problem. Shame as I really wanted to like this car as the concept is spot on, shame the execution has fallen short. I really hope they improve it with further iterations but at the moment it's a bit "emperors new clothes" IMO. The only party trick the GT86 has is oversteer and it's a bit rubbish at that. I am not a driving god and using weight transfer to induce oversteer on public roads is idiocy. Driving ban for sure if spotted.
Guvernator said:
Perfectly sums up my experience with it too. 200bhp is probably just about enough for this car but it's the way it delivers it that is so disappointing and that's only one problem. Shame as I really wanted to like this car as the concept is spot on, shame the execution has fallen short. I really hope they improve it with further iterations but at the moment it's a bit "emperors new clothes" IMO.
It's not cars fault if you can't drive it properly..Nikolai Petroff said:
Or maybe precisely because he can drive properly.
No. GT86 is just that kind of car that good drivers enjoy more than bad ones. Why? Cos it doesn't give you anything for free. You have to make proper effort to get what you want. And if you make mistake, it will bite your ass. It makes just that what you ask for, no more no less.It truly is a drivers car.
I'm afraid after driving a gt86 it felt to me like going back 20 years slows slow slow to be fair my 250 is mapped
He'll my e plate cavalier sri 130 has more low down grunt and felt faster
Just didn't do it for me I'm afraid I'd rather keep my 60k mile 250 it' simply makes the gt86 feel very dull indeed
Just felt like a boring generic jap car to me still different strokes and all
Personally a nissan 200 sx Is a far better car in driving terms than the 86 IMO
For me it's just the most overhyped car of the last 15 years and the only ones I have seen have been driven by people that look about 96 so a typical toyota driver ;0)
He'll my e plate cavalier sri 130 has more low down grunt and felt faster
Just didn't do it for me I'm afraid I'd rather keep my 60k mile 250 it' simply makes the gt86 feel very dull indeed
Just felt like a boring generic jap car to me still different strokes and all
Personally a nissan 200 sx Is a far better car in driving terms than the 86 IMO
For me it's just the most overhyped car of the last 15 years and the only ones I have seen have been driven by people that look about 96 so a typical toyota driver ;0)
LasseV said:
No. GT86 is just that kind of car that good drivers enjoy more than bad ones. Why? Cos it doesn't give you anything for free. You have to make proper effort to get what you want. And if you make mistake, it will bite your ass. It makes just that what you ask for, no more no less.
It truly is a drivers car.
Pmsl you should drive a tvr my friend if you think the gt 86 is difficult to drive fast It truly is a drivers car.
otolith said:
Driving it reminded me why I am never likely to buy another hot hatch.
Took an 86 out for a test drive on Saturday, currently own a E90 320si. Used to own a Williams back in the day and still think that was the most fun car i'd ever driven until Saturday. I bought my current car under the premise that it would drive in a similar way to how the 86 was hyped although in a much heavier package Driven a clio 200 cup but not megane and found the williams had much better steering and more chassis adjustability than the 200. IMHO my current car is an overrated pile of c**p which just feels like a big barge to hustle. The GT86 reminded me of the williams although in an rwd format. It's such a fun car! you don't have to oversteer on every round about but as someone mentioned before, if you know how to drive you can! and it's childs play to correct i was pml!! The steering is so direct with a lovely centre feel my beemer could only dream of. Can't beleive it's an epas system as i think imo it's better than the williams's hydraulic setup.
To sum up i bet the Megane is an absolute hoot but limited to the FWD setup. This 86 i think IMHO is all a true driving enthusiast needs on uk roads, ok you have to wind the bugger up but isn't that part of the fun, i don't really like turbo cars with to much low down torque as they remind me of dervs! This is a sports car! and that's why reviewers compare the driving experience to caymans, elises not hot hatches. In the words of Chris Harris 'just buy one!!'
Nikolai Petroff said:
The steering is not "good for an EPS system" it has zero feel and is average for any car, let alone a sports one.
Sounds like there's something wrong there. The last time I drove a Toybaru was virtually back-to-back with a Porsche 991 and it struck me that the BRZ had the nicer steering. In terms of feedback, I reckon it's the best electrically assisted steering I've come across and up there with a decent hydraulic system. I have a GT86 and whilst I bought it after 2 test drives and numerous drives of similar priced "hot hatches," the car takes a bit of learning. You don't need to learn a hot hatch in the same way as you can plant your foot and the best ones will just pull you through any corner.
Unless you are a very, very good driver (I am sure you will say you are...) you will simply not get all of the experience the GT86 offers in a few hours driving (if you are lucky enough to even get that on a test). Consequently the experience, like in many 5 star cars, only gets better as time goes on.
What I love about mine (after 8 months of ownership) is how I am still revveling in the driving experience - no matter the speed. It can go sideways at 30mph - EASILY, and does the same 30-40mph faster. Every time it feels controllable and reassuring.
Paying over £25K for warp speed in an over gripped FWD hot hatch based on the same foundations as a hatch my mum would drive doesn't do it for me. I would rather have something bespoke.
You would have to be a complete plumb to be critical of the electronic steering when comparing to other electronic steering systems. I think it is the best I have used, and has plenty of feedback.
Unless you are a very, very good driver (I am sure you will say you are...) you will simply not get all of the experience the GT86 offers in a few hours driving (if you are lucky enough to even get that on a test). Consequently the experience, like in many 5 star cars, only gets better as time goes on.
What I love about mine (after 8 months of ownership) is how I am still revveling in the driving experience - no matter the speed. It can go sideways at 30mph - EASILY, and does the same 30-40mph faster. Every time it feels controllable and reassuring.
Paying over £25K for warp speed in an over gripped FWD hot hatch based on the same foundations as a hatch my mum would drive doesn't do it for me. I would rather have something bespoke.
You would have to be a complete plumb to be critical of the electronic steering when comparing to other electronic steering systems. I think it is the best I have used, and has plenty of feedback.
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