RE: Megane 265 Cup and Subaru BRZ: Fast vs Fun
Discussion
hi everyone,
first off i think this is my first post on here so hello but i have been a member of various forums over the years so know the usual schtick.
sorry to come to this thread a bit late but i've just read it all and there has been some great posts and just want to add my thoughts on what has been said. i'll try to stick to bullit points
i honestly see this car as being all marketing of "what you've been waiting for" when really it's what they can manage to produce without risking making a loss and then price it around our competiors more thoroughly engineered cars and call it fun cause we put rubbish tyres on it.
should magazine tyre test results be turned on their head because ditchfinders are more "fun" and make every drive an event
"what you've been waiting for" has always been there in various forms. normally deserving more respect
the press have indulged this as they love the great NEW hype to put on the cover to sell mags to people like us as the latest 70 mpg polo wouldn't get my £4.50
i know this is massively overplaying things but its a bit of a concord moment accepting something worse as progress.
my point being from what a lot of people are saying about the megane its "outdated" massively superior performance/handling should have porsche and ferrari owners selling up and buying a toyota because then they'd be having more fun
NEW seems to have a admittedly small impact in this thread but i don't believe you can argue for a car's greatness based on what's available NEW as a rival.
somebody mentioned emporers new clothes to me that fits perfect. somebody has written that it feels like they've removed damping from the gearshiftt making it more mechanical , it's like people are wanting to pay extra to remove what the premium brands have spent millions ironing out of their cars
the physics of power to weight are pretty easy to judge especially in rwd and as others have stated this car is either down on the stated bhp or heavy. it should be a 6.7 sec car.
a lot of people say i used to be into fast hatches now i fancy a car i can slide at 30 mph. that's like me saying i used to wear spider doc martins now i love my slippers. it's not a good thing!!!
the difference between models in any manufactures range is massive you accept it because you weigh up what your getting extra for your money. be it better spec, engine, suspension, brakes, tyres. surely even something you cannot see like the development to make a car safe never mind class leading with so much more performance must run into a small fortune.
i currently have a RX8 as a toy so understand the fun side of the arguement. but i am in no doubt that my remapped octavia vrs diesel is easily faster in any conditions and that's what i cannot get away from.
the old 250 megane was within a split second of the current m3 around the millbrook proving groung track over mixed terrrain when tested by autocar with the m3 having 170 bhp more and rwd and double the price tag.
to my mind if we have got to the point where we have to dumb down rwd so it will slide at 30 to sell it and a souped up hatch is as fast as m sports finest then it's like saying vinyl's better than CD/MP3 because you can hear the crackles.
fun is subjective better is easily decided
first off i think this is my first post on here so hello but i have been a member of various forums over the years so know the usual schtick.
sorry to come to this thread a bit late but i've just read it all and there has been some great posts and just want to add my thoughts on what has been said. i'll try to stick to bullit points
i honestly see this car as being all marketing of "what you've been waiting for" when really it's what they can manage to produce without risking making a loss and then price it around our competiors more thoroughly engineered cars and call it fun cause we put rubbish tyres on it.
should magazine tyre test results be turned on their head because ditchfinders are more "fun" and make every drive an event
"what you've been waiting for" has always been there in various forms. normally deserving more respect
the press have indulged this as they love the great NEW hype to put on the cover to sell mags to people like us as the latest 70 mpg polo wouldn't get my £4.50
i know this is massively overplaying things but its a bit of a concord moment accepting something worse as progress.
my point being from what a lot of people are saying about the megane its "outdated" massively superior performance/handling should have porsche and ferrari owners selling up and buying a toyota because then they'd be having more fun
NEW seems to have a admittedly small impact in this thread but i don't believe you can argue for a car's greatness based on what's available NEW as a rival.
somebody mentioned emporers new clothes to me that fits perfect. somebody has written that it feels like they've removed damping from the gearshiftt making it more mechanical , it's like people are wanting to pay extra to remove what the premium brands have spent millions ironing out of their cars
the physics of power to weight are pretty easy to judge especially in rwd and as others have stated this car is either down on the stated bhp or heavy. it should be a 6.7 sec car.
a lot of people say i used to be into fast hatches now i fancy a car i can slide at 30 mph. that's like me saying i used to wear spider doc martins now i love my slippers. it's not a good thing!!!
the difference between models in any manufactures range is massive you accept it because you weigh up what your getting extra for your money. be it better spec, engine, suspension, brakes, tyres. surely even something you cannot see like the development to make a car safe never mind class leading with so much more performance must run into a small fortune.
i currently have a RX8 as a toy so understand the fun side of the arguement. but i am in no doubt that my remapped octavia vrs diesel is easily faster in any conditions and that's what i cannot get away from.
the old 250 megane was within a split second of the current m3 around the millbrook proving groung track over mixed terrrain when tested by autocar with the m3 having 170 bhp more and rwd and double the price tag.
to my mind if we have got to the point where we have to dumb down rwd so it will slide at 30 to sell it and a souped up hatch is as fast as m sports finest then it's like saying vinyl's better than CD/MP3 because you can hear the crackles.
fun is subjective better is easily decided
[quote=VeeFource]
The GT86 vs a 6 cylinder 1 series (though probably more the 130i/125i) is what I'm most interested in too. The two things I enjoy most about a performance car are both feelings of involvement and of capability, and for me the Renault's (and even to some extent the 135i's) capability is that little bit too high to feel really involved with on the public roads.
i'd thoroughly recommend a 130i we had one for two years and was still learning how to get the best out of it. i'd say a perfect blend of involvement and outright performance. once away from a standing start it was a match for a pre V8 M3. we needed more space but 3 years later still wished we'd kept it.
The GT86 vs a 6 cylinder 1 series (though probably more the 130i/125i) is what I'm most interested in too. The two things I enjoy most about a performance car are both feelings of involvement and of capability, and for me the Renault's (and even to some extent the 135i's) capability is that little bit too high to feel really involved with on the public roads.
i'd thoroughly recommend a 130i we had one for two years and was still learning how to get the best out of it. i'd say a perfect blend of involvement and outright performance. once away from a standing start it was a match for a pre V8 M3. we needed more space but 3 years later still wished we'd kept it.
im not interested in point and squirt motoring.
i dont care how long it takes me to get to the next corner, but i want to be able to have fun going around it.
I cant see how much fun driving a hyper car down a rutted single track or B road in the middle of nowhere would be, whilst with the 'yota it would be a blast.
the megane really shines for the point and squirt brigade, and the A road hero's
because lets face it, most people that buy these super hatches never challenge it round the corners, they just hoof away from traffic lights every so often, and occasionally squeeze the loud pedal down on a long straight.. but then hold me up tip-toeing round the blooming corners
recently in a thread on here, the most vocal of members stated that they hardly ever did anything more than bimble around like miss daisy.. so why not have a car that can be fun at these levels rather than need to be dragged up to triple digit speeds to get the same sense of danger and thrills.
i dont care how long it takes me to get to the next corner, but i want to be able to have fun going around it.
I cant see how much fun driving a hyper car down a rutted single track or B road in the middle of nowhere would be, whilst with the 'yota it would be a blast.
the megane really shines for the point and squirt brigade, and the A road hero's
because lets face it, most people that buy these super hatches never challenge it round the corners, they just hoof away from traffic lights every so often, and occasionally squeeze the loud pedal down on a long straight.. but then hold me up tip-toeing round the blooming corners
recently in a thread on here, the most vocal of members stated that they hardly ever did anything more than bimble around like miss daisy.. so why not have a car that can be fun at these levels rather than need to be dragged up to triple digit speeds to get the same sense of danger and thrills.
leesb said:
hi everyone,
first off i think this is my first post on here so hello but i have been a member of various forums over the years so know the usual schtick.
sorry to come to this thread a bit late but i've just read it all and there has been some great posts and just want to add my thoughts on what has been said. i'll try to stick to bullit points
i honestly see this car as being all marketing of "what you've been waiting for" when really it's what they can manage to produce without risking making a loss and then price it around our competiors more thoroughly engineered cars and call it fun cause we put rubbish tyres on it.
should magazine tyre test results be turned on their head because ditchfinders are more "fun" and make every drive an event
"what you've been waiting for" has always been there in various forms. normally deserving more respect
the press have indulged this as they love the great NEW hype to put on the cover to sell mags to people like us as the latest 70 mpg polo wouldn't get my £4.50
i know this is massively overplaying things but its a bit of a concord moment accepting something worse as progress.
my point being from what a lot of people are saying about the megane its "outdated" massively superior performance/handling should have porsche and ferrari owners selling up and buying a toyota because then they'd be having more fun
NEW seems to have a admittedly small impact in this thread but i don't believe you can argue for a car's greatness based on what's available NEW as a rival.
somebody mentioned emporers new clothes to me that fits perfect. somebody has written that it feels like they've removed damping from the gearshiftt making it more mechanical , it's like people are wanting to pay extra to remove what the premium brands have spent millions ironing out of their cars
the physics of power to weight are pretty easy to judge especially in rwd and as others have stated this car is either down on the stated bhp or heavy. it should be a 6.7 sec car.
a lot of people say i used to be into fast hatches now i fancy a car i can slide at 30 mph. that's like me saying i used to wear spider doc martins now i love my slippers. it's not a good thing!!!
the difference between models in any manufactures range is massive you accept it because you weigh up what your getting extra for your money. be it better spec, engine, suspension, brakes, tyres. surely even something you cannot see like the development to make a car safe never mind class leading with so much more performance must run into a small fortune.
i currently have a RX8 as a toy so understand the fun side of the arguement. but i am in no doubt that my remapped octavia vrs diesel is easily faster in any conditions and that's what i cannot get away from.
the old 250 megane was within a split second of the current m3 around the millbrook proving groung track over mixed terrrain when tested by autocar with the m3 having 170 bhp more and rwd and double the price tag.
to my mind if we have got to the point where we have to dumb down rwd so it will slide at 30 to sell it and a souped up hatch is as fast as m sports finest then it's like saying vinyl's better than CD/MP3 because you can hear the crackles.
fun is subjective better is easily decided
We've got to that point because cars are just to fast and accomplished for our crowded roads to fully enjoy them.first off i think this is my first post on here so hello but i have been a member of various forums over the years so know the usual schtick.
sorry to come to this thread a bit late but i've just read it all and there has been some great posts and just want to add my thoughts on what has been said. i'll try to stick to bullit points
i honestly see this car as being all marketing of "what you've been waiting for" when really it's what they can manage to produce without risking making a loss and then price it around our competiors more thoroughly engineered cars and call it fun cause we put rubbish tyres on it.
should magazine tyre test results be turned on their head because ditchfinders are more "fun" and make every drive an event
"what you've been waiting for" has always been there in various forms. normally deserving more respect
the press have indulged this as they love the great NEW hype to put on the cover to sell mags to people like us as the latest 70 mpg polo wouldn't get my £4.50
i know this is massively overplaying things but its a bit of a concord moment accepting something worse as progress.
my point being from what a lot of people are saying about the megane its "outdated" massively superior performance/handling should have porsche and ferrari owners selling up and buying a toyota because then they'd be having more fun
NEW seems to have a admittedly small impact in this thread but i don't believe you can argue for a car's greatness based on what's available NEW as a rival.
somebody mentioned emporers new clothes to me that fits perfect. somebody has written that it feels like they've removed damping from the gearshiftt making it more mechanical , it's like people are wanting to pay extra to remove what the premium brands have spent millions ironing out of their cars
the physics of power to weight are pretty easy to judge especially in rwd and as others have stated this car is either down on the stated bhp or heavy. it should be a 6.7 sec car.
a lot of people say i used to be into fast hatches now i fancy a car i can slide at 30 mph. that's like me saying i used to wear spider doc martins now i love my slippers. it's not a good thing!!!
the difference between models in any manufactures range is massive you accept it because you weigh up what your getting extra for your money. be it better spec, engine, suspension, brakes, tyres. surely even something you cannot see like the development to make a car safe never mind class leading with so much more performance must run into a small fortune.
i currently have a RX8 as a toy so understand the fun side of the arguement. but i am in no doubt that my remapped octavia vrs diesel is easily faster in any conditions and that's what i cannot get away from.
the old 250 megane was within a split second of the current m3 around the millbrook proving groung track over mixed terrrain when tested by autocar with the m3 having 170 bhp more and rwd and double the price tag.
to my mind if we have got to the point where we have to dumb down rwd so it will slide at 30 to sell it and a souped up hatch is as fast as m sports finest then it's like saying vinyl's better than CD/MP3 because you can hear the crackles.
fun is subjective better is easily decided
That is why "dumbing down" rwd has happened so you can continue to enjoy the same driver enjoyment / involvement at 30mph rather than 90mph.
Also its a small light coupe sports car its not meant to feel like a 7 series limo wafting along. So of course they would remove all that crap the premium brands have been giving us to make cars boring / numb / void of feel.
Its like you've played gran turismo on the play station and then decided that's how all fun driving should feel.
Edited by Murray1986 on Sunday 12th May 19:28
leesb said:
i'd thoroughly recommend a 130i we had one for two years and was still learning how to get the best out of it. i'd say a perfect blend of involvement and outright performance. once away from a standing start it was a match for a pre V8 M3.
This just shows why the GT86 is not for you. I couldn't care less if my car is faster than someone else's or not. I buy a car based on how much I enjoy driving it, not on statistics.Have you driven a GT86?
leesb said:
i'd thoroughly recommend a 130i we had one for two years and was still learning how to get the best out of it. i'd say a perfect blend of involvement and outright performance. once away from a standing start it was a match for a pre V8 M3. we needed more space but 3 years later still wished we'd kept it.
I test drove a 130i on Saturday. Cracking mix of usability and performance, sounds fantastic too. Can't comment too much on the handling because it was pouring with rain and I don't push a car that's not mine. Superb car, but it left me totally cold, and it didn't feel that involving. It was easy to go very quickly, but I didn't get much feedback from it. Today I sampled not one but two 2.0 Mk3 MX-5s, and both were more fun to punt about (perhaps in part because I had the roof down), with far more feedback in every aspect. They weren't slow either, overtakes required a touch more planning but it never once felt slow. You had to work a little harder, but it so much more fun 
V8RX7 said:
I have no doubt turbo / supercharger kits will be available for the GT86 too (albeit they are likely to cost upwards of £3k )
Crawford BRZhttp://youtu.be/oLP-HCcX9as
s m said:
V8RX7 said:
I have no doubt turbo / supercharger kits will be available for the GT86 too (albeit they are likely to cost upwards of £3k )
Crawford BRZhttp://youtu.be/oLP-HCcX9as
but the majority of the "petrolheads" in this thread dont want to tune.. they want 10000000000 HP from the dealership with a warranty with 80mpg and 120000 mile service intervals,
they want it on finance / lease .. and are terrified of spoiling their resale values after 3 yrs.
on top of all that.. they will spend absolutely all their time hyper-miling the damn thing and never ever push it.
bunch of little girls really.. and its a shame
'Noise fed into the cabin', yes thats all you need on a long trip!
Most makers try to eradicate it. Ridiculous, its a road car not a race car. Suppose it makes for a 'faster' car if you can hear the racket its making, sadly shows the way things are going. And what is it with the ridiculous looking seats in both these cars, especially the Renault, looks great to get in and out of..
Most makers try to eradicate it. Ridiculous, its a road car not a race car. Suppose it makes for a 'faster' car if you can hear the racket its making, sadly shows the way things are going. And what is it with the ridiculous looking seats in both these cars, especially the Renault, looks great to get in and out of..
SystemParanoia said:
s m said:
V8RX7 said:
I have no doubt turbo / supercharger kits will be available for the GT86 too (albeit they are likely to cost upwards of £3k )
Crawford BRZhttp://youtu.be/oLP-HCcX9as
22rgt B Squadron said:
'Noise fed into the cabin', yes thats all you need on a long trip!
Most makers try to eradicate it. Ridiculous, its a road car not a race car
Most makers try to eradicate it. Ridiculous, its a road car not a race car
You must've missed this gem:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/bmw-m5...
It's a car with "sporting" aspirations, and sound is part of the equation.
On topic, if you need a practical car, or care about taking every corner 3mph faster and arriving home about .6sec faster, I can't see why you'd take the Megane over the Toybaru.
I wouldn't mind either, but these cars couldn't be more different in my eyes.
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