Monday 25th March 2013

Ariel Atom titanium chassis in the works

New chassis would result in even-lighter Atom

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If you know anything about bicycle frames you’ll appreciate the almost mystical qualities titanium tubing has to offer in terms of weight saving and that unique ability to damp out small, high frequency bumps.

So news that Ariel is working on an Atom with a titanium chassis – confirmed by Autocar – is hugely exciting. Exciting enough for us to ring Ariel’s Simon Saunders to find out more.

Standard car isn't exactly a heifer...

The headline news is a potential 40 per cent weight saving over the regular mild steel Atom chassis – 80kg of the Atom’s all-up weight. That would work out as an overall saving on the kerb weight of around eight per cent, though it’s still very early days as yet and Ariel hasn’t yet built a running prototype.

The bicycle connection isn’t entirely fictional either, Ariel working with renowned supplier of steel and titanium bike frame tubing Reynolds on the pipework for its prototype chassis. Established weight-saving techniques such as butting – thinning the tube walls along the tube but leaving it thicker at the end to support the weld – could be carried over too, saving as much as 1.5kg from the side struts on the Ariel chassis alone.

As Saunders says, it’s a slippery slope and once you start playing with the technology and the weight savings on offer it gets addictive.

Ariel chamber is the world's largest

It’s not all that straightforward though. Keen cyclists will be aware that although titanium is lighter than steel it’s also more flexible, a characteristic desirable in some applications in bike frames because it allows a degree of shock absorption on frames without any suspension. Great for dealing with ‘road buzz’ but perhaps not so desirable in a car chassis. Ariel has increased the diameter of some of the major tubes in the titanium chassis to answer this but there’s a host of tuning and experimentation to be done, on top of the 200 or so iterations of chassis design they’ve already been through to get this far.

Titanium is also very difficult to work with, requiring an entirely inert workspace purged of oxygen. The chamber in which Ariel has been welding its chassis has been specially built and is the biggest of its kind in the world – just purging all the oxygen out of it takes two days.

That quality of natural springiness and damping will present Ariel with interesting challenges and opportunities when it comes to tuning the feel of the car too. Saunders says they’ll be looking at spring rates and damping accordingly but it’s a fascinating project and one with huge potential for an even lighter, more exciting Atom. One that’ll probably cost quite a bit more too. But what the hell!

[Sources: Autocar]

[joshleb]

Will the massive cost increase be worth the benefits?

I'm not sold.

[ikarl]

joshleb said:

Will the massive cost increase be worth the benefits?

I'm not sold.

80kg on a car that is all about being lightweight....?

Pretty sure it'll be worth it!

[Krikkit]

joshleb said:

Will the massive cost increase be worth the benefits?

I'm not sold.

Doubt it, given how brilliant the "ordinary" Atom is. Can't knock them for trying though!

[MrKipling43]

Drool.

Although I think titanium is springier than aluminium and lighter than steel - is takes the best of steel and alu.

[993RSGT3]

Love my Ti Kent Eriksson winter road bike. Another major advantage is that it's inert, so no need to worry about salt and washing the bike after every ride - so same for an Atom with this frame material.

[jon-]

joshleb said:

Will the massive cost increase be worth the benefits?

I'm not sold.

I would guess the end goal of this is a little like the Caparo T1.

It's not meant to make money by an up-sell of Atom units, but be a technological show piece advertising their unique ability to work with titanium.

[J4CKO]

993RSGT3 said:

Love my Ti Kent Eriksson winter road bike. Another major advantage is that it's inert, so no need to worry about salt and washing the bike after every ride - so same for an Atom with this frame material.

Are you meant to do that, oops, should see mine over winter, suprised they havent disolved.

What we need is a decent Chinese knock off the Atom for about 15 grand, after all it is only really a climbing frame with an engine.

[LotusOmega375D]

Prop for Dr Who, or is Ariel developing a Deep Sea diving submarine?

[Hellbound]

2023

'Ariel Atom Graphene chassis in the works'

[Megaflow]

ikarl said:

80kg on a car that is all about being lightweight....?

Pretty sure it'll be worth it!

80kg is the current chassis weight, so only 32kg saved.

[glazbagun]

Really cool and interesting, but curious as to why they wouldn't just go withIs that even an issue with aluminium. Too brittle?/hard riding? Would that even be an issue in a top flight Atom?

[richb77]

ikarl said:

joshleb said:

Will the massive cost increase be worth the benefits?

I'm not sold.

80kg on a car that is all about being lightweight....?

Pretty sure it'll be worth it!

Sure. At least the driver can eat a couple more pies before going for a spin.

[JoeMk1]

I went to see this in the flesh a few weeks ago. The chassis is being made by Caged in Frome:

http://www.therollcagepeople.com/

Apparently the chamber cost about £30,000

You can see in one of the pics that one end has an airlock so that they can take bits in and out.

The jigs that Caged make are amazing in themselves, all Laser cut and CNC folded:



That means on a chassis of the Atom's size, accuracy is to within 1mm. Very impressive.

They also make the chassis for the BAC Mono

[McWigglebum4th]

LotusOmega375D said:

Prop for Dr Who, or is Ariel developing a Deep Sea diving submarine?

Why?

Why can't they back purge the tubes and use a normal TIG torch?

If it is a sealed chamber how the fk do you change the tungsten?

I see a huge amount of faff for bugger all gain

[suffolk009]

I'm certain (with me) it would achieve more if I simply laid off the sticky buns for a month or two.



Never the less, I'll take mine double butted, with chromed lugs and a little bit of hand lining. Nice.

[robinessex]

You can't have to much torsional stifness. So there. Make it out of wubber, and it it wobbles!!

[MikeyBoy2000]

Another bicycle analogy...

Reynolds 531

Reynolds 753

Titanium...

....Then carbon fibre?

Amazing if Ariel can pull this off for the complexity alone, but surely skipping a step straight to carbon fibre might be the way...?

[J4CKO]

richb77 said:

ikarl said:

joshleb said:

Will the massive cost increase be worth the benefits?

I'm not sold.

80kg on a car that is all about being lightweight....?

Pretty sure it'll be worth it!

Sure. At least the driver can eat a couple more pies before going for a spin.

You just know that at a track day you will see 25 stone of enthusiast squeezed into a racing suit proudly showing one off.

[dom9]

Been interested in seeing someone try this, for a while.

Please keep the updates coming, PH/ Ariel.

[HustleRussell]

I hope this move doesn't steal any work from 'Arch motor manufacturing co.' who make the current steel chassis. It's a great company.