RE: Mazda RX-8: PH buying guide
Discussion
I really like the way the RX-8 drives. The only thing I've driven that feels similar is the GT86, so there's something about a fairly light car with a low CoG that gives a feel which is difficult to replicate. If you can't live with the rotary, for that sort of money I think a 3'er coupe is as close as you are going to get with a piston engine, but it's not going to feel the same - it's a good chunk heavier, a bit taller and narrower, and it's pitched at fulfilling a slightly different remit.
The RX-7 is extraordinarily pretty, I've wanted one for years, but would have been too impractical for me when I had the RX-8, and once we had room to park three cars and I could live with something less practical, I got a Lotus.
The RX-7 is extraordinarily pretty, I've wanted one for years, but would have been too impractical for me when I had the RX-8, and once we had room to park three cars and I could live with something less practical, I got a Lotus.
I had an RX7 (reliable but thirty) and bought a 330i as a replacement which I still own now.
The 330i will not be a "Lexus like" proposition of reliability that many may imagine, with cheap running costs. It will need new suspension every third month to rid it of knocks/bangs just to make it drive correctly (no patent parts for the M-Tech stuff sadly), and will have endless niggles and reliability issues. Plus, it will rust before your very eyes.
My 330i does about 24mpg, and can do 30mpg on the motorway. It is safe, fun, good-ish on fuel - but not reliable or cheap to run overall.
I understand the comments made about road tax only being a few hundred quid more, but that additional "extra" cost for say three years of ownership is quite a lot for a £3k car which may be worth £1500k at the end.
The 330i will not be a "Lexus like" proposition of reliability that many may imagine, with cheap running costs. It will need new suspension every third month to rid it of knocks/bangs just to make it drive correctly (no patent parts for the M-Tech stuff sadly), and will have endless niggles and reliability issues. Plus, it will rust before your very eyes.
My 330i does about 24mpg, and can do 30mpg on the motorway. It is safe, fun, good-ish on fuel - but not reliable or cheap to run overall.
I understand the comments made about road tax only being a few hundred quid more, but that additional "extra" cost for say three years of ownership is quite a lot for a £3k car which may be worth £1500k at the end.
Edited by LotusAlfaV6bloke on Saturday 30th March 13:05
Let's be real here. The RX8 is not a car that you should own as your primary vehicle. It is too high maintenance and at only about 16-24 mpg (highest I have seen is 30 mpg on a 65 mph cruise the entire tank) it is not the best choice for doing many miles in due to high petrol prices.
Another thing that needs to be pointed out is that driving short distances and turning off the car will not destroy the engine if you do it a few times. The rotary behaves just like a normal engine in all circumstances if the engine is healthy, but if you frequently do short trips, don't pay attention to the oil, and don't drive it with a little vigor quite often then the likelihood of issues popping up will increase.
Having said all of this, in my opinion the RX8 should be either (i) someone's 2nd car, (ii) someone's vehicle for a person who doesn't use it as their main mode of transport (like myself who lives in London and uses it exclusively as a toy), or (III) similar to ii as a weekend car or track car. The RX8 is basically a Mazda Miata on steroids. It's handling is superb, cheap to run at the track (light weight means brakes and tires don't wear out too quickly), it has enough power to give most drivers a thrill (about a 14.6 1/4 mile), and is pretty practical if you need to use it for non-sporting purposes.
The RX8's good balance of power and handling makes it a great car to learn how to drive quickly in. The 50/50 weight distribution is ideal for learning how to correctly control a rear wheel drive car, and the power is enough to get excited when revving to 9000 rpm while not being too fast to end up in a hedge.
The other nice thing about the RX8 is that it can be purchased cheaply, whether buying a good used one with good compression results, or buying a junker and rebuilding the engine for ~£3k. And if you have a good running one then it won't really ever be much less than what you bought it for (£4k-£6k). This is because ones with engines with low compression but still good enough to run, crowd the £2k-£4k price range and non-runners operate below that. So, you are buying at the bottom of its depreciation cycle and it doesn't have much more to fall since prices are pretty much bottomed out anyway.
Alternatives to the RX8 are the 350z (doesn't drive as well and is also thirsty), the z4 (less practical and doesn't drive as well) and the BMW 330i (the 3 series is far too common so this car isn't as special, repairs are super expensive, and it doesn't drive as well). The RX8 when it has a healthy engine is actually very cheap in terms of servicing. If the engine is serviced properly and looked after not much else really ever gives an owner much trouble.
Still, the RX8 is a very unique car and the amount of care and maintenance it requires to insure that you won't run into severe problems, is a bit too hands on for some people. That is fine and those people should not take a chance on this car. And actually, the more that stay afraid of it then the better for the people looking at buying one in the used market, because prices will stay low, and ownership will remain cheap.
Another thing that needs to be pointed out is that driving short distances and turning off the car will not destroy the engine if you do it a few times. The rotary behaves just like a normal engine in all circumstances if the engine is healthy, but if you frequently do short trips, don't pay attention to the oil, and don't drive it with a little vigor quite often then the likelihood of issues popping up will increase.
Having said all of this, in my opinion the RX8 should be either (i) someone's 2nd car, (ii) someone's vehicle for a person who doesn't use it as their main mode of transport (like myself who lives in London and uses it exclusively as a toy), or (III) similar to ii as a weekend car or track car. The RX8 is basically a Mazda Miata on steroids. It's handling is superb, cheap to run at the track (light weight means brakes and tires don't wear out too quickly), it has enough power to give most drivers a thrill (about a 14.6 1/4 mile), and is pretty practical if you need to use it for non-sporting purposes.
The RX8's good balance of power and handling makes it a great car to learn how to drive quickly in. The 50/50 weight distribution is ideal for learning how to correctly control a rear wheel drive car, and the power is enough to get excited when revving to 9000 rpm while not being too fast to end up in a hedge.
The other nice thing about the RX8 is that it can be purchased cheaply, whether buying a good used one with good compression results, or buying a junker and rebuilding the engine for ~£3k. And if you have a good running one then it won't really ever be much less than what you bought it for (£4k-£6k). This is because ones with engines with low compression but still good enough to run, crowd the £2k-£4k price range and non-runners operate below that. So, you are buying at the bottom of its depreciation cycle and it doesn't have much more to fall since prices are pretty much bottomed out anyway.
Alternatives to the RX8 are the 350z (doesn't drive as well and is also thirsty), the z4 (less practical and doesn't drive as well) and the BMW 330i (the 3 series is far too common so this car isn't as special, repairs are super expensive, and it doesn't drive as well). The RX8 when it has a healthy engine is actually very cheap in terms of servicing. If the engine is serviced properly and looked after not much else really ever gives an owner much trouble.
Still, the RX8 is a very unique car and the amount of care and maintenance it requires to insure that you won't run into severe problems, is a bit too hands on for some people. That is fine and those people should not take a chance on this car. And actually, the more that stay afraid of it then the better for the people looking at buying one in the used market, because prices will stay low, and ownership will remain cheap.
cib24 said:
If the engine is serviced properly and looked after not much else really ever gives an owner much trouble.
This is simply not true, owners have experienced failure under 30k miles even when looked after meticulously. The problem is that it's akin to Russian Roulette as to whether your engine will go pop or not. Chances are it will though, I've only ever seen a handful with more than 100k on the original engine.
interesting question. cib24 said:
Let's be real here. The RX8 is not a car that you should own as your primary vehicle. It is too high maintenance and at only about 16-24 mpg (highest I have seen is 30 mpg on a 65 mph cruise the entire tank) it is not the best choice for doing many miles in due to high petrol prices.
Another thing that needs to be pointed out is that driving short distances and turning off the car will not destroy the engine if you do it a few times. The rotary behaves just like a normal engine in all circumstances if the engine is healthy, but if you frequently do short trips, don't pay attention to the oil, and don't drive it with a little vigor quite often then the likelihood of issues popping up will increase.
Having said all of this, in my opinion the RX8 should be either (i) someone's 2nd car, (ii) someone's vehicle for a person who doesn't use it as their main mode of transport (like myself who lives in London and uses it exclusively as a toy), or (III) similar to ii as a weekend car or track car. The RX8 is basically a Mazda Miata on steroids. It's handling is superb, cheap to run at the track (light weight means brakes and tires don't wear out too quickly), it has enough power to give most drivers a thrill (about a 14.6 1/4 mile), and is pretty practical if you need to use it for non-sporting purposes.
The RX8's good balance of power and handling makes it a great car to learn how to drive quickly in. The 50/50 weight distribution is ideal for learning how to correctly control a rear wheel drive car, and the power is enough to get excited when revving to 9000 rpm while not being too fast to end up in a hedge.
The other nice thing about the RX8 is that it can be purchased cheaply, whether buying a good used one with good compression results, or buying a junker and rebuilding the engine for ~£3k. And if you have a good running one then it won't really ever be much less than what you bought it for (£4k-£6k). This is because ones with engines with low compression but still good enough to run, crowd the £2k-£4k price range and non-runners operate below that. So, you are buying at the bottom of its depreciation cycle and it doesn't have much more to fall since prices are pretty much bottomed out anyway.
Alternatives to the RX8 are the 350z (doesn't drive as well and is also thirsty), the z4 (less practical and doesn't drive as well) and the BMW 330i (the 3 series is far too common so this car isn't as special, repairs are super expensive, and it doesn't drive as well). The RX8 when it has a healthy engine is actually very cheap in terms of servicing. If the engine is serviced properly and looked after not much else really ever gives an owner much trouble.
Still, the RX8 is a very unique car and the amount of care and maintenance it requires to insure that you won't run into severe problems, is a bit too hands on for some people. That is fine and those people should not take a chance on this car. And actually, the more that stay afraid of it then the better for the people looking at buying one in the used market, because prices will stay low, and ownership will remain cheap.
Thats an interesting point of view. Another thing that needs to be pointed out is that driving short distances and turning off the car will not destroy the engine if you do it a few times. The rotary behaves just like a normal engine in all circumstances if the engine is healthy, but if you frequently do short trips, don't pay attention to the oil, and don't drive it with a little vigor quite often then the likelihood of issues popping up will increase.
Having said all of this, in my opinion the RX8 should be either (i) someone's 2nd car, (ii) someone's vehicle for a person who doesn't use it as their main mode of transport (like myself who lives in London and uses it exclusively as a toy), or (III) similar to ii as a weekend car or track car. The RX8 is basically a Mazda Miata on steroids. It's handling is superb, cheap to run at the track (light weight means brakes and tires don't wear out too quickly), it has enough power to give most drivers a thrill (about a 14.6 1/4 mile), and is pretty practical if you need to use it for non-sporting purposes.
The RX8's good balance of power and handling makes it a great car to learn how to drive quickly in. The 50/50 weight distribution is ideal for learning how to correctly control a rear wheel drive car, and the power is enough to get excited when revving to 9000 rpm while not being too fast to end up in a hedge.
The other nice thing about the RX8 is that it can be purchased cheaply, whether buying a good used one with good compression results, or buying a junker and rebuilding the engine for ~£3k. And if you have a good running one then it won't really ever be much less than what you bought it for (£4k-£6k). This is because ones with engines with low compression but still good enough to run, crowd the £2k-£4k price range and non-runners operate below that. So, you are buying at the bottom of its depreciation cycle and it doesn't have much more to fall since prices are pretty much bottomed out anyway.
Alternatives to the RX8 are the 350z (doesn't drive as well and is also thirsty), the z4 (less practical and doesn't drive as well) and the BMW 330i (the 3 series is far too common so this car isn't as special, repairs are super expensive, and it doesn't drive as well). The RX8 when it has a healthy engine is actually very cheap in terms of servicing. If the engine is serviced properly and looked after not much else really ever gives an owner much trouble.
Still, the RX8 is a very unique car and the amount of care and maintenance it requires to insure that you won't run into severe problems, is a bit too hands on for some people. That is fine and those people should not take a chance on this car. And actually, the more that stay afraid of it then the better for the people looking at buying one in the used market, because prices will stay low, and ownership will remain cheap.
I can live with mid 20's mpg, my current car does 30 ish, so not a significant change.
my use would be typically 45 min runs twice a day, so should avoid the multiple short trips problem.
I used to run a punto turbo that liked a drop of oil (or two)
I need 4 seats, to the 350z/z4 wouldnt work.
There are a few for sale near me, a couple with 80k miles for £2.5k, and a couple of lower mile examples at around 4k.
I might have a look. I suppose I should approach with the view that I may need an engine rebuild.
I have also seen a couple of alfa GTs in a similar price bracket, which may be the accountants choice, but lacking in other areas
Mr Sparkle said:
When discussing these engines I have heard people say the engine is designed to inject/burn some oil to lubricate. Some say their car burns no oil, does this mean the injector has failed?
Zero oil consumption would be worrying to me, however the quantity of oil injected is under ECU control and will vary with driving conditions. I suppose it is conceivable for some people to get from one oil change to the next on the difference between low and high on the dipstick. Conceivable but unlikely, IMO.Some points:
This stuff about them being "high maintenance" is b
ks. I had one from practically new for two years and all I did for "maintenance" was check the oil every 1000 miles, topping up where necessary, and put petrol in it. They are "high maintenance" if you buy a broken one, or if the one you buy then breaks, much like any other car of this kind of age.
My best ever MPG (on a car that had 7000 miles on it at that point) was 24 on a long drive through France. Average 18, went as low as 15 during the winter.
The stuff about needing a rebuild "around 60k" is also bks, some of them have needed one well before this and as mentioned owner maintenance is no real indicator of if you are looking at a good one or not.
BMW 330 vs RX8 comments - drive both around a B road at high revs and you will see that this is a pointless comparison.
If you are worried about an extra 200 quid tax on a car that averages 18MPG - this is not the car for you.
If you are worried about "power vs MPG" on a car that was £25k new and now costs £3k second hand - buy a turbo diesel and enjoy driving in straight lines.
This stuff about them being "high maintenance" is b
ks. I had one from practically new for two years and all I did for "maintenance" was check the oil every 1000 miles, topping up where necessary, and put petrol in it. They are "high maintenance" if you buy a broken one, or if the one you buy then breaks, much like any other car of this kind of age.My best ever MPG (on a car that had 7000 miles on it at that point) was 24 on a long drive through France. Average 18, went as low as 15 during the winter.
The stuff about needing a rebuild "around 60k" is also b
ks, some of them have needed one well before this and as mentioned owner maintenance is no real indicator of if you are looking at a good one or not.BMW 330 vs RX8 comments - drive both around a B road at high revs and you will see that this is a pointless comparison.
If you are worried about an extra 200 quid tax on a car that averages 18MPG - this is not the car for you.
If you are worried about "power vs MPG" on a car that was £25k new and now costs £3k second hand - buy a turbo diesel and enjoy driving in straight lines.
lilwashu said:
BMW 330 vs RX8 comments - drive both around a B road at high revs and you will see that this is a pointless comparison.
Yeah because most of us spend our days doing that.They are both performance coupes the fact the RX8 ONLY beats the BMW on a fast B road really isn't that much in it's favour considering all it's downsides.
Comes down to how and where you like to drive and what your priorities in a car are. I think people who use them in London or other urban areas are nuts. The fuel consumption in traffic is horrible, and they're not the nicest thing to drive in stop-start traffic. Mind you, people drive all sorts of unsuitable cars in cities, for god only knows what reason - and at least the RX-8 rides well.
If you generally drive on enjoyable roads, that's a different matter, though.
If you generally drive on enjoyable roads, that's a different matter, though.
RAClNG SNAKE said:
Overall it seems that most posters that have actually owned (or still own) an RX8 think that the positives outweigh the negatives.
Of course they do - that's why they bought one.Similarly those of us who feel the negatives outweigh the positives haven't.
I've never tried homosexuality but most of those who have, prefer it - strangely I'm still not tempted.
What's the scope for engine conversions?
I love the 4 seater coupe configuration and they are great to drive but the engine is the achilles heel IMO.
I'm aware of the VW units, but what sort of space is available for something a bit bigger with more character?
Or is the very reason it drives so well is because of the tiny engine sitting so low down in a tiny engine bay, which leaves conventional engine options limited?
I love the 4 seater coupe configuration and they are great to drive but the engine is the achilles heel IMO.
I'm aware of the VW units, but what sort of space is available for something a bit bigger with more character?
Or is the very reason it drives so well is because of the tiny engine sitting so low down in a tiny engine bay, which leaves conventional engine options limited?
Ug_lee said:
What's the scope for engine conversions?
I love the 4 seater coupe configuration and they are great to drive but the engine is the achilles heel IMO.
I'm aware of the VW units, but what sort of space is available for something a bit bigger with more character?
Or is the very reason it drives so well is because of the tiny engine sitting so low down in a tiny engine bay, which leaves conventional engine options limited?
Quite a few have been done using various engines IIRC 200SX turbo, Supra turbo, Chevy LS V8 but yes your last sentence is correct.I love the 4 seater coupe configuration and they are great to drive but the engine is the achilles heel IMO.
I'm aware of the VW units, but what sort of space is available for something a bit bigger with more character?
Or is the very reason it drives so well is because of the tiny engine sitting so low down in a tiny engine bay, which leaves conventional engine options limited?
V8RX7 said:
RAClNG SNAKE said:
Overall it seems that most posters that have actually owned (or still own) an RX8 think that the positives outweigh the negatives.
Of course they do - that's why they bought one.Similarly those of us who feel the negatives outweigh the positives haven't.
I've never tried homosexuality but most of those who have, prefer it - strangely I'm still not tempted.
For the record, the only downside to ownership for me is not being able to do short journeys.
V8RX7 said:
Ug_lee said:
What's the scope for engine conversions?
I love the 4 seater coupe configuration and they are great to drive but the engine is the achilles heel IMO.
I'm aware of the VW units, but what sort of space is available for something a bit bigger with more character?
Or is the very reason it drives so well is because of the tiny engine sitting so low down in a tiny engine bay, which leaves conventional engine options limited?
Quite a few have been done using various engines IIRC 200SX turbo, Supra turbo, Chevy LS V8 but yes your last sentence is correct.I love the 4 seater coupe configuration and they are great to drive but the engine is the achilles heel IMO.
I'm aware of the VW units, but what sort of space is available for something a bit bigger with more character?
Or is the very reason it drives so well is because of the tiny engine sitting so low down in a tiny engine bay, which leaves conventional engine options limited?
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