RE: Chris Harris video: R8 V10 vs 911 Turbo S vs GT-R

RE: Chris Harris video: R8 V10 vs 911 Turbo S vs GT-R

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Discussion

Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Tuesday 14th May 2013
quotequote all
toppstuff said:
madcaplaughs said:
Great video and very entertaining. Road and Track timed the 997 Turbo S at 2.7 secs 0-60. The Audi looks a great car but it is a 2013 model and the Porsche 997 Turbo S as featured was launched 3 years ago. Although it was fun watching the GTR it wasn't a standard car. There are many tuned versions of the 911 available with 750 plus BHP which would have been fairer.
A tuned 911 wild be a lot more expensive than a GTR. Even with the Litchfield additions, the GTR was still a good deal cheaper than the others. I think it was therefore fair.
I don't think it was fair at all. Bloody interesting, yes. But unfair.

If you are going to compare Nissan's high performance offering, and I mean Nissan's, not Litchfield's, against the rest of the top end main dealer offerings, then it should have been a standard GTR. This is Piston Heads FFS, not Max Power! And what's more it should have been up against the very latest 911 Turbo. Surely Chris and the PH office would have been aware that it's release was imminent and hung on for a bit before making the trip to Bruntingthorpe.

Dblue

3,252 posts

199 months

Tuesday 14th May 2013
quotequote all
Cobnapint said:
toppstuff said:
madcaplaughs said:
Great video and very entertaining. Road and Track timed the 997 Turbo S at 2.7 secs 0-60. The Audi looks a great car but it is a 2013 model and the Porsche 997 Turbo S as featured was launched 3 years ago. Although it was fun watching the GTR it wasn't a standard car. There are many tuned versions of the 911 available with 750 plus BHP which would have been fairer.
A tuned 911 wild be a lot more expensive than a GTR. Even with the Litchfield additions, the GTR was still a good deal cheaper than the others. I think it was therefore fair.
I don't think it was fair at all. Bloody interesting, yes. But unfair.

If you are going to compare Nissan's high performance offering, and I mean Nissan's, not Litchfield's, against the rest of the top end main dealer offerings, then it should have been a standard GTR. This is Piston Heads FFS, not Max Power! And what's more it should have been up against the very latest 911 Turbo. Surely Chris and the PH office would have been aware that it's release was imminent and hung on for a bit before making the trip to Bruntingthorpe.
Well yes and no. You can make an easy case as Chris has here that a very professionally developed modified car as this GTR is a viable alternative to much more expensive machinery. You would also find that a stock GTR would show a 997 Turbo the way anyway and they have numerous times.
Now we don't know just how good the new Turbo S is going to be but its not available yet and when it is its likely to cost twice as much as the Nissan without going mad with the options. And it "might" get round the Ring within 10secs of the GTR (Until next years revised GTR gets near to 7'15'')

Thats a standard GTR by the way, not the Banzai Litchfield Demo.

toppstuff

13,698 posts

246 months

Tuesday 14th May 2013
quotequote all
Cobnapint said:
toppstuff said:
madcaplaughs said:
Great video and very entertaining. Road and Track timed the 997 Turbo S at 2.7 secs 0-60. The Audi looks a great car but it is a 2013 model and the Porsche 997 Turbo S as featured was launched 3 years ago. Although it was fun watching the GTR it wasn't a standard car. There are many tuned versions of the 911 available with 750 plus BHP which would have been fairer.
A tuned 911 wild be a lot more expensive than a GTR. Even with the Litchfield additions, the GTR was still a good deal cheaper than the others. I think it was therefore fair.
I don't think it was fair at all. Bloody interesting, yes. But unfair.

If you are going to compare Nissan's high performance offering, and I mean Nissan's, not Litchfield's, against the rest of the top end main dealer offerings, then it should have been a standard GTR. This is Piston Heads FFS, not Max Power! And what's more it should have been up against the very latest 911 Turbo. Surely Chris and the PH office would have been aware that it's release was imminent and hung on for a bit before making the trip to Bruntingthorpe.
No, completely disagree.

I am actually hoping later in the year to be looking at buying a car in this sector. So, for me, this is a seriously interesting video.

Why? Because it is clear that I can get a GTR and then have a highly professional series of improvements and upgrades done to it that radically improve its ride and handling ( Litchfield suspension pack ) and its performance ( Litchfield range of tuning upgrades ) and the resulting car will come with a decent warranty. And I can choose just how much extra I want to pay. A personalised GTR is therefore a real, meaningful alternative to buying a stock German car for equal or more money.

And as far as the 991 Turbo on its way, well no doubt they will compare it when they get their hands on one.

But given that the new 991 Turbo is a £130-150k car, comparisons are moot because I would not spend that much anyway... It would be easy to spend 2x the price of the GTR on a 991 Turbo S. Thats just nuts.

big_rob_sydney

3,394 posts

193 months

Tuesday 14th May 2013
quotequote all
Cobnapint said:
toppstuff said:
madcaplaughs said:
Great video and very entertaining. Road and Track timed the 997 Turbo S at 2.7 secs 0-60. The Audi looks a great car but it is a 2013 model and the Porsche 997 Turbo S as featured was launched 3 years ago. Although it was fun watching the GTR it wasn't a standard car. There are many tuned versions of the 911 available with 750 plus BHP which would have been fairer.
A tuned 911 wild be a lot more expensive than a GTR. Even with the Litchfield additions, the GTR was still a good deal cheaper than the others. I think it was therefore fair.
I don't think it was fair at all. Bloody interesting, yes. But unfair.

If you are going to compare Nissan's high performance offering, and I mean Nissan's, not Litchfield's, against the rest of the top end main dealer offerings, then it should have been a standard GTR. This is Piston Heads FFS, not Max Power! And what's more it should have been up against the very latest 911 Turbo. Surely Chris and the PH office would have been aware that it's release was imminent and hung on for a bit before making the trip to Bruntingthorpe.
I think its entirely fair, but for a different reason. Simply, if I have X to spend, then I'll consider whatever my budget will allow. I think that putting artificial blinkers on, for some obscure reason, is crazy.

On the basis that the GTR has full warranty, then I'd say go for it. If its a question of resale (Litchfield not being Nissan), then thats a different argument. To counter that, I'd simply say that the others in this comparo are significantly more expensive, and will depreciate a hell of a lot more anyway.

Purely on the basis of depreciation, I wouldnt buy the porsche or the audi. I'd be more inclined to get the stock GTR and pocket the difference. The Litchfield is just icing on the cake for me that Porsche and Audi have lost their way.

Maldini35

2,913 posts

187 months

Tuesday 14th May 2013
quotequote all
big_rob_sydney said:
Cobnapint said:
toppstuff said:
madcaplaughs said:
Great video and very entertaining. Road and Track timed the 997 Turbo S at 2.7 secs 0-60. The Audi looks a great car but it is a 2013 model and the Porsche 997 Turbo S as featured was launched 3 years ago. Although it was fun watching the GTR it wasn't a standard car. There are many tuned versions of the 911 available with 750 plus BHP which would have been fairer.
A tuned 911 wild be a lot more expensive than a GTR. Even with the Litchfield additions, the GTR was still a good deal cheaper than the others. I think it was therefore fair.
I don't think it was fair at all. Bloody interesting, yes. But unfair.

If you are going to compare Nissan's high performance offering, and I mean Nissan's, not Litchfield's, against the rest of the top end main dealer offerings, then it should have been a standard GTR. This is Piston Heads FFS, not Max Power! And what's more it should have been up against the very latest 911 Turbo. Surely Chris and the PH office would have been aware that it's release was imminent and hung on for a bit before making the trip to Bruntingthorpe.
I think its entirely fair, but for a different reason. Simply, if I have X to spend, then I'll consider whatever my budget will allow. I think that putting artificial blinkers on, for some obscure reason, is crazy.

On the basis that the GTR has full warranty, then I'd say go for it. If its a question of resale (Litchfield not being Nissan), then thats a different argument. To counter that, I'd simply say that the others in this comparo are significantly more expensive, and will depreciate a hell of a lot more anyway.

Purely on the basis of depreciation, I wouldnt buy the porsche or the audi. I'd be more inclined to get the stock GTR and pocket the difference. The Litchfield is just icing on the cake for me that Porsche and Audi have lost their way.
Porsche & Audi lost their way?

Were you watching the same video as the rest of us? I thought Chris said he preferred the R8.

The GTR is excellent value for money in terms of BHP per £ but there's so much more to cars than that.
It's not really a debate worth having as it's totally subjective.
I respect the GTR but have no desire to own one. I find it very ugly and the cheap interior unworthy of a £70k car. You obviously like the looks and don't mind the tacky interior. Neither of us is right or wrong.
This is all hypothetical anyway as I suspect if your lottery numbers came up the stock GTR (& money in the bank) would soon be forgotten as you perused the 458 brochure...


NomduJour

18,988 posts

258 months

Tuesday 14th May 2013
quotequote all
The interior isn't so bad, certainly not as awful as a 996/986 era Porsche.

The money argument is largely pointless with certain brands at this level, proven by the fact that Porsche won't have a problem shifting 991 Turbos at £150k+.

Dblue

3,252 posts

199 months

Tuesday 14th May 2013
quotequote all
NomduJour said:
The interior isn't so bad, certainly not as awful as a 996/986 era Porsche.

The money argument is largely pointless with certain brands at this level, proven by the fact that Porsche won't have a problem shifting 991 Turbos at £150k+.
Yes, I'm never quite sure what people find so objectionable about the interior. Its well made, largely leather lined well organised. ??
MY2011 cars and onwards have carbon instead of the brushed aluminium but its certainly as good as a 997 interior. Audis are always beautifully finished and the 991 is a real step forward but honestly, its a perfectly nice place to sit.

I would point out that Porsche may shift plenty of £150k Turbos but they will drop their value very quickly indeed as 997s have until they too reside at £40 -£50k.

2009 GTRs are still £30k + and they cost £53k New !!!

tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Tuesday 14th May 2013
quotequote all
Maldini35 said:
Porsche & Audi lost their way?

Were you watching the same video as the rest of us? I thought Chris said he preferred the R8.

The GTR is excellent value for money in terms of BHP per £ but there's so much more to cars than that.
It's not really a debate worth having as it's totally subjective.
I respect the GTR but have no desire to own one. I find it very ugly and the cheap interior unworthy of a £70k car. You obviously like the looks and don't mind the tacky interior. Neither of us is right or wrong.
This is all hypothetical anyway as I suspect if your lottery numbers came up the stock GTR (& money in the bank) would soon be forgotten as you perused the 458 brochure...
Or buy all three and the 458 if your numbers came up.

I've done the ugly/max power, cheap interior and in this case flipping big jap car. It was great and real hoot... But now I'm after other things such from a car. At this level cost is only one aspect.

Anyway if you want a cheap porsche, buy a 996 turbo and go to nine excellence and get it upgraded to 600+hp...

big_rob_sydney

3,394 posts

193 months

Wednesday 15th May 2013
quotequote all
Maldini35 said:
big_rob_sydney said:
Cobnapint said:
toppstuff said:
madcaplaughs said:
Great video and very entertaining. Road and Track timed the 997 Turbo S at 2.7 secs 0-60. The Audi looks a great car but it is a 2013 model and the Porsche 997 Turbo S as featured was launched 3 years ago. Although it was fun watching the GTR it wasn't a standard car. There are many tuned versions of the 911 available with 750 plus BHP which would have been fairer.
A tuned 911 wild be a lot more expensive than a GTR. Even with the Litchfield additions, the GTR was still a good deal cheaper than the others. I think it was therefore fair.
I don't think it was fair at all. Bloody interesting, yes. But unfair.

If you are going to compare Nissan's high performance offering, and I mean Nissan's, not Litchfield's, against the rest of the top end main dealer offerings, then it should have been a standard GTR. This is Piston Heads FFS, not Max Power! And what's more it should have been up against the very latest 911 Turbo. Surely Chris and the PH office would have been aware that it's release was imminent and hung on for a bit before making the trip to Bruntingthorpe.
I think its entirely fair, but for a different reason. Simply, if I have X to spend, then I'll consider whatever my budget will allow. I think that putting artificial blinkers on, for some obscure reason, is crazy.

On the basis that the GTR has full warranty, then I'd say go for it. If its a question of resale (Litchfield not being Nissan), then thats a different argument. To counter that, I'd simply say that the others in this comparo are significantly more expensive, and will depreciate a hell of a lot more anyway.

Purely on the basis of depreciation, I wouldnt buy the porsche or the audi. I'd be more inclined to get the stock GTR and pocket the difference. The Litchfield is just icing on the cake for me that Porsche and Audi have lost their way.
Porsche & Audi lost their way?

Were you watching the same video as the rest of us? I thought Chris said he preferred the R8.

The GTR is excellent value for money in terms of BHP per £ but there's so much more to cars than that.
It's not really a debate worth having as it's totally subjective.
I respect the GTR but have no desire to own one. I find it very ugly and the cheap interior unworthy of a £70k car. You obviously like the looks and don't mind the tacky interior. Neither of us is right or wrong.
This is all hypothetical anyway as I suspect if your lottery numbers came up the stock GTR (& money in the bank) would soon be forgotten as you perused the 458 brochure...
Absolutely they have lost their way. When a C4S costs 115k, and the Cayman is a better all round car at a much cheaper cost, how on earth can Porsche offer themselves to the public with any sense of credibility?

And the Audi. The slowest car in this company, and yet, the priciest. If they had been quickest, then at least I could try to find some possible way to justify its price tag.

As for what I obviously like, save it. All that interests me is the stopwatch. It never lies. The rest is just misguided fools in denial, trying to justify their overpriced paperweight.

tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Saturday 18th May 2013
quotequote all
big_rob_sydney said:
Absolutely they have lost their way. When a C4S costs 115k, and the Cayman is a better all round car at a much cheaper cost, how on earth can Porsche offer themselves to the public with any sense of credibility?

And the Audi. The slowest car in this company, and yet, the priciest. If they had been quickest, then at least I could try to find some possible way to justify its price tag.

As for what I obviously like, save it. All that interests me is the stopwatch. It never lies. The rest is just misguided fools in denial, trying to justify their overpriced paperweight.
Yes I agree a Nissan GTR is an overpriced paperweight hehe and slow.

Why have sushi when you can have British Beef http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/Content.aspx?f=recor...

0-60 in 2.6sec, 0-100 5.3 secs and this is 720bhp version not the 800bhp one.

They are all grade A weapons. Price is only one part of the equation at this level for people who can afford this type of car....and thank goodness or we would all be driving round in very cheap (and sometimes ugly) max-power look-a-likes.

Maldini35

2,913 posts

187 months

Saturday 18th May 2013
quotequote all
big_rob_sydney said:
Absolutely they have lost their way. When a C4S costs 115k, and the Cayman is a better all round car at a much cheaper cost, how on earth can Porsche offer themselves to the public with any sense of credibility?

And the Audi. The slowest car in this company, and yet, the priciest. If they had been quickest, then at least I could try to find some possible way to justify its price tag.

As for what I obviously like, save it. All that interests me is the stopwatch. It never lies. The rest is just misguided fools in denial, trying to justify their overpriced paperweight.
"All that interests me is the stopwatch"

I used to think the same and then I hit puberty




Si_man306

456 posts

184 months

Tuesday 21st May 2013
quotequote all
Please god. Give me a lottery win and then a trip to Litchfield.

The other two are great, but hell, the concentration on Chris's face driving the GTR right alongside hysterical laughing- that's hard to engineer into a car and what I absolutely love about it!

Bezza1969

777 posts

147 months

Wednesday 29th May 2013
quotequote all
Maldini35 said:
big_rob_sydney said:
Absolutely they have lost their way. When a C4S costs 115k, and the Cayman is a better all round car at a much cheaper cost, how on earth can Porsche offer themselves to the public with any sense of credibility?

And the Audi. The slowest car in this company, and yet, the priciest. If they had been quickest, then at least I could try to find some possible way to justify its price tag.

As for what I obviously like, save it. All that interests me is the stopwatch. It never lies. The rest is just misguided fools in denial, trying to justify their overpriced paperweight.
"All that interests me is the stopwatch"

I used to think the same and then I hit puberty
Well, talking of the stopwatch, the R8 beat the 911 around Anglesea and was only a second behind the Nissan, despite a 200 BHP disadvantage, who cars about a drag race to 100, its absolutely irrelevant in day to day driving. Amazing actually that 750 BHP got the Nissan only a whole second around that track compared with the R8, When you consider how fast it is. the Audi is an absolute peach, the best looking and best sounding car out there. In fact, I'd like Monkey to do the video again, this time with Audi v 458 and MP4-12C. Evo did this test and decided the R8 was their favourite, which is quite a verdict really!!



Edited by Bezza1969 on Wednesday 29th May 08:50

toppstuff

13,698 posts

246 months

Wednesday 29th May 2013
quotequote all
Bezza1969 said:
Well, talking of the stopwatch, the R8 beat the 911 around Anglesea and was only a second behind the Nissan, despite a 200 BHP disadvantage, who cars about a drag race to 100, its absolutely irrelevant in day to day driving. Amazing actually that 750 BHP got the Nissan only a whole second around that track compared with the R8, When you consider how fast it is. the Audi is an absolute peach, the best looking and best sounding car out there. In fact, I'd like Monkey to do the video again, this time with Audi v 458 and MP4-12C. Evo did this test and decided the R8 was their favourite, which is quite a verdict really!!



Edited by Bezza1969 on Wednesday 29th May 08:50
In the Nissan's defence, it is carrying Litchfields suspension pack tuned for road comfort and less aggressive Michelin Supersport tyres. They use this car to demonstrate the options available and a lot of GTR owners are buying the more supple suspension that this car is fitted with. A bit of a paradox, given the power of the thing I know, but if the Nissan had suspension and tyres with a more aggressive style in mind to match the "plus" moniker of the Audi, I think the gap between it and the Audi would have been a lot, lot greater.


Dblue

3,252 posts

199 months

Wednesday 29th May 2013
quotequote all
toppstuff said:
Bezza1969 said:
Well, talking of the stopwatch, the R8 beat the 911 around Anglesea and was only a second behind the Nissan, despite a 200 BHP disadvantage, who cars about a drag race to 100, its absolutely irrelevant in day to day driving. Amazing actually that 750 BHP got the Nissan only a whole second around that track compared with the R8, When you consider how fast it is. the Audi is an absolute peach, the best looking and best sounding car out there. In fact, I'd like Monkey to do the video again, this time with Audi v 458 and MP4-12C. Evo did this test and decided the R8 was their favourite, which is quite a verdict really!!



Edited by Bezza1969 on Wednesday 29th May 08:50
In the Nissan's defence, it is carrying Litchfields suspension pack tuned for road comfort and less aggressive Michelin Supersport tyres. They use this car to demonstrate the options available and a lot of GTR owners are buying the more supple suspension that this car is fitted with. A bit of a paradox, given the power of the thing I know, but if the Nissan had suspension and tyres with a more aggressive style in mind to match the "plus" moniker of the Audi, I think the gap between it and the Audi would have been a lot, lot greater.
+1 on this and the Anglesey layout being used is not the full GP one with 2 additional long straights. Its a very short circuit to lose a second on when you're driving a mid-engined 550bhp supercar.
On a 20km twisty varied route (Like the Nurburgring for example) the difference would be 20 or 30 secs.

greggy50

6,161 posts

190 months

Wednesday 29th May 2013
quotequote all
Plus the Nissan looked a bit of a handful and suspect Chris could have got a faster time with a bit more time/practise in the car...