RE: Aston Martin Rapide S: Review
Discussion
Drakey52 said:
Likewise - 0-100 in 8 secs is a great stat for the Panamera Turbo, and impressive, but it's still ugly.
Indeed, but your rear passenger will not be squeeling with pain and begging to be let out of the leather lined coffin you have squeezed them into. Put a British chap of healthy build in the back of the Rapide and while he will make it to the pub, he'd refuse to go to another county, let alone another country. Meanwhile, same chap in the back of the Panamera is comfy and having a nice nap.
toppstuff said:
Indeed, but your rear passenger will not be squeeling with pain and begging to be let out of the leather lined coffin you have squeezed them into. Put a British chap of healthy build in the back of the Rapide and while he will make it to the pub, he'd refuse to go to another county, let alone another country.
Meanwhile, same chap in the back of the Panamera is comfy and having a nice nap.
Why not get a lwb S class then?Meanwhile, same chap in the back of the Panamera is comfy and having a nice nap.
Dagnut said:
toppstuff said:
Indeed, but your rear passenger will not be squeeling with pain and begging to be let out of the leather lined coffin you have squeezed them into. Put a British chap of healthy build in the back of the Rapide and while he will make it to the pub, he'd refuse to go to another county, let alone another country.
Meanwhile, same chap in the back of the Panamera is comfy and having a nice nap.
Why not get a lwb S class then?Meanwhile, same chap in the back of the Panamera is comfy and having a nice nap.
There is a continuum for these sort of cars - on the one side you have beauty, on the other side you have space and practicality. The Rapide is totally on the beauty side, while the S class is on the practicality side ( after all, it is a taxi for most people ) . The Panamera sits precisely half way between the two. This is why Porsche have sold more Panameras in a month than Aston probably manage in Rapides in a year.
toppstuff said:
And that is the heart of the matter.
There is a continuum for these sort of cars - on the one side you have beauty, on the other side you have space and practicality. The Rapide is totally on the beauty side, while the S class is on the practicality side ( after all, it is a taxi for most people ) . The Panamera sits precisely half way between the two. This is why Porsche have sold more Panameras in a month than Aston probably manage in Rapides in a year.
I'll give you that the Panamera is half way between the two on practicality and space, but on beauty? There is a continuum for these sort of cars - on the one side you have beauty, on the other side you have space and practicality. The Rapide is totally on the beauty side, while the S class is on the practicality side ( after all, it is a taxi for most people ) . The Panamera sits precisely half way between the two. This is why Porsche have sold more Panameras in a month than Aston probably manage in Rapides in a year.
Don't forget that Aston doens't have the capacity to sell that many more Rapides. It doesn't even try to compete with Porsche.
Zod said:
I'll give you that the Panamera is half way between the two on practicality and space, but on beauty?
Don't forget that Aston doens't have the capacity to sell that many more Rapides. It doesn't even try to compete with Porsche.
Wishful thinking I am afraid. I'm all for supporting the plucky Brit but Aston have made some bad decisions. IMO the Rapide is one of them.Don't forget that Aston doens't have the capacity to sell that many more Rapides. It doesn't even try to compete with Porsche.
They originally thought they would sell 2000 Rapides a year and they contracted manufacture to Magna Steyr in Austria. When it became apparent that they could not shift them, Aston broke the contract with Magna ( not cheap ) and brought manufacture inhouse to the UK, where they now only expect to make a few hundred a year.
While all this was happening, their competitors ( Porsche, Bentley for example ) ramp up production and have been breaking sales records.
Rapide is a lovely thing but it is a bit of a flop. IMO this is because it is neither one thing nor the other. Punters try them in Dubai or Malaysia, California or Cannes, expecting a 4 seater. They then reject them when their wives complain about the cramped rear access, so they buy a DBS instead and keep the Range Rover for group duties, leaving the Rapide in a rather pointless place.
I think there is a reason why the Rapide is the worlds only 4 door 2+2.
toppstuff said:
And that is the heart of the matter.
There is a continuum for these sort of cars - on the one side you have beauty, on the other side you have space and practicality. The Rapide is totally on the beauty side, while the S class is on the practicality side ( after all, it is a taxi for most people ) . The Panamera sits precisely half way between the two. This is why Porsche have sold more Panameras in a month than Aston probably manage in Rapides in a year.
The Panamera misses the goal completely with the beauty, its a big lump, too clinical and teutonic it's not a supercar it has no grace or style. Objectively it s probably a far better car but luS1fer made a great point about future classics..the Rapide will be one the Panamera won't... Porsche used to cool they aren't any more..and the least cool is that big bulbous lumpThere is a continuum for these sort of cars - on the one side you have beauty, on the other side you have space and practicality. The Rapide is totally on the beauty side, while the S class is on the practicality side ( after all, it is a taxi for most people ) . The Panamera sits precisely half way between the two. This is why Porsche have sold more Panameras in a month than Aston probably manage in Rapides in a year.
Dagnut said:
toppstuff said:
And that is the heart of the matter.
There is a continuum for these sort of cars - on the one side you have beauty, on the other side you have space and practicality. The Rapide is totally on the beauty side, while the S class is on the practicality side ( after all, it is a taxi for most people ) . The Panamera sits precisely half way between the two. This is why Porsche have sold more Panameras in a month than Aston probably manage in Rapides in a year.
The Panamera misses the goal completely with the beauty, its a big lump, too clinical and teutonic it's not a supercar it has no grace or style. Objectively it s probably a far better car but luS1fer made a great point about future classics..the Rapide will be one the Panamera won't... Porsche used to cool they aren't any more..and the least cool is that big bulbous lumpThere is a continuum for these sort of cars - on the one side you have beauty, on the other side you have space and practicality. The Rapide is totally on the beauty side, while the S class is on the practicality side ( after all, it is a taxi for most people ) . The Panamera sits precisely half way between the two. This is why Porsche have sold more Panameras in a month than Aston probably manage in Rapides in a year.
I am sure we really want to see a successful, thriving Aston Martin. But cars like these are not the way to do it.
Aston should have done a deal to platform share with another manufacturer years ago, to get a proper 4 seat Lagonda out to the market. That would have sold and helped Aston thrive. The Rapide has failed to do this and it is not going to change things now.
I wish they had done something more useful and less compromised. But thats just me
toppstuff said:
Sure, I agree with much of that. The Aston has more style than the Panamera by a long margin. But in terms of success, Porsche really nailed it with the Panamera. Same as they did with the Cayenne. You can't argue with the sales numbers.
I am sure we really want to see a successful, thriving Aston Martin. But cars like these are not the way to do it.
Aston should have done a deal to platform share with another manufacturer years ago, to get a proper 4 seat Lagonda out to the market. That would have sold and helped Aston thrive. The Rapide has failed to do this and it is not going to change things now.
I wish they had done something more useful and less compromised. But thats just me
I agree in all the pragmatic (German) business ways. However I recall people saying "why do people move from Ferrari to 911's" 20 years ago - and it was because children appear and grow, if you feed them. I just can't get the Panamera's shape, or even the Cayenne in facelift form (it looks like a Kia from the rear) but I am clearly in the minority and don't buy these cars new anyway.I am sure we really want to see a successful, thriving Aston Martin. But cars like these are not the way to do it.
Aston should have done a deal to platform share with another manufacturer years ago, to get a proper 4 seat Lagonda out to the market. That would have sold and helped Aston thrive. The Rapide has failed to do this and it is not going to change things now.
I wish they had done something more useful and less compromised. But thats just me
If I did - I'd have a new Rangie and the Rapide for fun.
Drakey52 said:
If I did - I'd have a new Rangie and the Rapide for fun.
Totally agree with that sentiment, and indeed thought of it while writing the review. However, my next thought was '...but if you're going to do that, why the Rapide, and not the cheaper, arguably even prettier DB9 on which it's based?' Don't get me wrong - I loved the Rapide, but if I needed four seats regularly enough to warrant considering it, I think I'd end up with a DB9 for fun and spend the change on a used 525d Touring or suchlike for the times I needed to tote passengers around. And I guess that's why I found myself wondering 'well, who really is it for?' Each to his own, though, and I suppose that if you preferred the looks of the Rapide to the DB9 you might feel differently!Scrof said:
Drakey52 said:
If I did - I'd have a new Rangie and the Rapide for fun.
Totally agree with that sentiment, and indeed thought of it while writing the review. However, my next thought was '...but if you're going to do that, why the Rapide, and not the cheaper, arguably even prettier DB9 on which it's based?' Don't get me wrong - I loved the Rapide, but if I needed four seats regularly enough to warrant considering it, I think I'd end up with a DB9 for fun and spend the change on a used 525d Touring or suchlike for the times I needed to tote passengers around. And I guess that's why I found myself wondering 'well, who really is it for?' Each to his own, though, and I suppose that if you preferred the looks of the Rapide to the DB9 you might feel differently!I really like the Rapide, but I have three kids and it's just not practical enough for me. There are other people whom it suits though.
Zod said:
That's why I ended up with a V12V and an X5.
I really like the Rapide, but I have three kids and it's just not practical enough for me. There are other people whom it suits though.
All good points - I come from having 2 cars (fun cars at weekends haven't worked for me, sold the Griffith and the 964 after doing <1k miles a year in them) which need to me moderately practical. We have a V10 S6 which does the family stuff. Question is what do we get when the DB9 is too small ?I really like the Rapide, but I have three kids and it's just not practical enough for me. There are other people whom it suits though.
Drakey52 said:
All good points - I come from having 2 cars (fun cars at weekends haven't worked for me, sold the Griffith and the 964 after doing <1k miles a year in them) which need to me moderately practical. We have a V10 S6 which does the family stuff. Question is what do we get when the DB9 is too small ?
Sorry - I should add, for a day out or the school run...nothing more.I do love the Aston. The looks and the noise.
But the problem I see is that only fitting two people in the back is a real problem. If you have a kid you can only carry one adult in the back. So my parents could never travel with us!
Mind you that may not be such a bad thing.
I just came back from Miami where every other car was a panamera. Never seen so many in my life.
But the problem I see is that only fitting two people in the back is a real problem. If you have a kid you can only carry one adult in the back. So my parents could never travel with us!
Mind you that may not be such a bad thing.
I just came back from Miami where every other car was a panamera. Never seen so many in my life.
Drakey52 said:
All good points - I come from having 2 cars (fun cars at weekends haven't worked for me, sold the Griffith and the 964 after doing <1k miles a year in them) which need to me moderately practical. We have a V10 S6 which does the family stuff. Question is what do we get when the DB9 is too small ?
Well, I went through that and ended up with the V12V, having thought about buying a Rapide and then discovering that I was going to be a father of three. I just thought f*ck it; if I can't take all, I'll take one at a time. I still think about the Rapide S though, because it's quite often three or four of us in the car and that means taking the X5.>timewarp mode< 
Its just that if we have to take the dog and 4 suitcases we go in the BMW Estate, if we dont and its just me, the missus and the two kids, the (very expensive to buy and run) Aston DOESN'T frustratingly get left idle at home - we go in the worlds most stunning 4 door 4 seater saloon which happens to have a glorious f off V12 engine!!! Well OK the Panamera is more practical and the M5 too is dynamically awesome AND very spacious and utterly practical. And both have nicer gearboxes. But I've never had either on my bedroom wall.
But yes, it's still a sales flop. Puzzled really as its the only car that ticked most boxes for me - people terrified of running and maintenance cost cant help? When you worry about all that remember the car has a V12 engine - a V12 get one before you wont be allowed
Its just that if we have to take the dog and 4 suitcases we go in the BMW Estate, if we dont and its just me, the missus and the two kids, the (very expensive to buy and run) Aston DOESN'T frustratingly get left idle at home - we go in the worlds most stunning 4 door 4 seater saloon which happens to have a glorious f off V12 engine!!! Well OK the Panamera is more practical and the M5 too is dynamically awesome AND very spacious and utterly practical. And both have nicer gearboxes. But I've never had either on my bedroom wall.
But yes, it's still a sales flop. Puzzled really as its the only car that ticked most boxes for me - people terrified of running and maintenance cost cant help? When you worry about all that remember the car has a V12 engine - a V12 get one before you wont be allowed
Edited by Ken Figenus on Sunday 22 February 18:51
Edited by Ken Figenus on Sunday 22 February 18:58
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