RE: New Caterham Seven revealed

[AnotherClarkey]

BOR said:

I'm bemused why Caterham are taking so long to attack the zero-emissions/low fuel-consumption market. An ecoboost or twin-air engine is still good for 100+bhp, which would make an enjoyable road car with low running costs.

Longer term, where is the Caterham Twizzy ? Moulded roof,vestigal doors, low capacity battery with powerfull rear mounted motors ? Have a look at the used Caterhams for sale - lack of range wouldn't appear to be a big problem.

Compared to mainstream manufscturers, Caterham are already most of the way there in terms of low vehicle weight.

I think the electric route has a lot of merit - no need to find a tricky to source rwd-suited engine, gearbox or even a diff. Potentially epic performance for as long as most people would want to drive a Caterham and no 'engine lag' to spoil the handling.

[scarble]

Er yea but a good engine has low torque at idle and high torque when it is going round and round very fast.
An electric motor has high torque at 0rpm and then it just sort of....

[danp]

BertBert said:

Which is on the website at £14,495

a good point!

[Edmundo2]

No point in comparing with a fiesta. What I can't understand is the fact that there are so many good used 7's on the market that offer much better value. These things are light so do not put big wear on components and they generally get used for minimal miles as toys in dry weather. If it were my £17k a mint used super light or R300 or similar would fit the bill over a new poverty spec car!

[MarkRSi]

danp said:

BertBert said:

Which is on the website at £14,495

a good point!

Was looking at the Caterham website a few nights ago - is that up to date? Noticed it has a copyright notice for last decade...

[Kolbenkopp]

Hope EU6 compliance means they will offer it on the continent and at that price. 17k GBP is about 20k EUR. I think at that price they could sell *quite* a few more in Europe.

Current price list for Germany has a 125PS Sigma "Classic" for 29k EUR, almost 25k GBP or 8k GBP more that the new entry level car. Almost comical that they promote this as new adjusted "bargain" prices due to the favorable exchange rate.

I love the cars, but I think the official LHD ones are fairly bad value. Quite a few used ones get imported from UK (despite complications with TÜV and emissions) as a result. This is contributing to pushing residuals up in the UK and that's good. But selling more would be even better IMO.

As for the engine, the Renault connection seems plausible. The 0.9 would fit the bill (advertised as a replacement for a 1.4 NA). But will http://www.powertrain.renault.com/our-range/powert... be cheap enough? Compared to the Sigma NA and despite being MPI and not DI, still fairly high-tech/expensive? No idea really.

[AnotherClarkey]

scarble said:

Er yea but a good engine has low torque at idle and high torque when it is going round and round very fast.
An electric motor has high torque at 0rpm and then it just sort of....

If you say so.

[SidewaysSi]

AnotherClarkey said:

scarble said:

Er yea but a good engine has low torque at idle and high torque when it is going round and round very fast.
An electric motor has high torque at 0rpm and then it just sort of....

If you say so.

I have been driving Caterhams for 11 years - the thought of an electric 7 holds zero appeal whatsoever.

[AnotherClarkey]

SidewaysSi said:

AnotherClarkey said:

scarble said:

Er yea but a good engine has low torque at idle and high torque when it is going round and round very fast.
An electric motor has high torque at 0rpm and then it just sort of....

If you say so.

I have been driving Caterhams for 11 years - the thought of an electric 7 holds zero appeal whatsoever.

I suppose it all depends whether your thoughts accurately reflect the reality. Maybe we will find out one day.

[framerateuk]

BertBert said:

Which is on the website at £14,495

But haven't they actually stopped making them since the supply of 1.4k engines has run out?

The one in the image has the new Caterham logo on it too. I see no reason why this wouldn't be a photo of the "new" car. It's a good teaser if anything!

Edited by framerateuk on Wednesday 29th May 23:34

[framerateuk]

AnotherClarkey said:

I suppose it all depends whether your thoughts accurately reflect the reality. Maybe we will find out one day.

You buy into the experience of the Caterham as much as the performance; the noise is one of the big factors.

I can't imagine a silent Seven. With nothing but wind rush a whine on the electric motor?

[bencollins]

Moaning minnies out in force on this thread.
Sounds awesome to me, many people are like me will spend @£10k on a car and no more.
So £17k sounds dooable at a stretch (especially with their excellent residuals).

[ewenm]

scarble said:

ewenm said:

I say it on most Caterham threads so will here too - my 7 was my only car for 5 years and so far I've done over 80,000 miles in it since 2000 with the majority of those being in the first 8 years. Shopping can go in the boot and/or footwell. The roof is pretty effective (if fitted correctly) and servicing is basic as the car is simple and based on mainstream engines. It does require a bit of commitment but can be done.

define commitment?

The same sort of commitment you'd need to use a classic car as a daily driver or to use a motorbike regularly. Caterhams are noisy, feel pretty confined with the roof up (although unzipping the back window helps with the heat build-up), feel pretty exposed on motorways when mixing with trucks/SUVs.

If you've been away for the weekend and are knackered on Sunday afternoon/evening, having to climb into the 7 and spend a few hours on the motorway in bad weather to get home can be a trying experience.

That sort of commitment.

That said, the much touted "impracticality" wasn't much of an issue for me. I used to travel round the country going running/mountain biking/rock climbing and could fit all my kit for a weekend away into (and onto) the car, including transporting the bike. You just need to get creative with bungee cords and dry-bags

[ayseven]

You often hear how expensive the Caterham is compared to others (Clones). Well, I made a clone out of a partial kit (OK it's probably as fast as any Caterham), but even sitting in one is not comparable. The Caterham is a better deal that I wish I had discovered when I started my build in 2007. If you want the best of the breed, you have to pay for it.

[shirt]

AnotherClarkey said:

BOR said:

I'm bemused why Caterham are taking so long to attack the zero-emissions/low fuel-consumption market. An ecoboost or twin-air engine is still good for 100+bhp, which would make an enjoyable road car with low running costs.

Longer term, where is the Caterham Twizzy ? Moulded roof,vestigal doors, low capacity battery with powerfull rear mounted motors ? Have a look at the used Caterhams for sale - lack of range wouldn't appear to be a big problem.

Compared to mainstream manufscturers, Caterham are already most of the way there in terms of low vehicle weight.

I think the electric route has a lot of merit - no need to find a tricky to source rwd-suited engine, gearbox or even a diff. Potentially epic performance for as long as most people would want to drive a Caterham and no 'engine lag' to spoil the handling.

how does an electric motor [hub drive] translate to performance driving though? the key appeal of a caterham is that the driver can 'feel' the car as an extension of himself. how would throttle response be characterised? could you steer on the throttle or would it mean adjusting your driving style? if it is so different then i imagine he obstacle is the PR issue of people getting it massively wrong and going off the road/track.

[shirt]

ayseven said:

You often hear how expensive the Caterham is compared to others (Clones). Well, I made a clone out of a partial kit (OK it's probably as fast as any Caterham), but even sitting in one is not comparable. The Caterham is a better deal that I wish I had discovered when I started my build in 2007. If you want the best of the breed, you have to pay for it.

i can only compare my copy [gts clubman] a 1.4 roadsport and an r500, but i don't think it's that clear cut. fit and finish is better on the caterham but the cooking model failed to impress. cockpit was cramped [especially the pedals], seats were dire and the dash had far too many guages. granted the r500 had the wide body and adressed all these issues and then some, but you do pay a phenomenal amount for the priveledge.

[wemorgan]

IMHO the Westfield SEIW hits the sweet spot nicely, offering decent quality, cheaper price, independent rear suspension and a wide body.
But that's what's great about the UK kit car industry, whatever your budget and requirements there's a suitable car available.

[bertie]

ayseven said:

You often hear how expensive the Caterham is compared to others (Clones). Well, I made a clone out of a partial kit (OK it's probably as fast as any Caterham), but even sitting in one is not comparable. The Caterham is a better deal that I wish I had discovered when I started my build in 2007. If you want the best of the breed, you have to pay for it.

I totaly agree.

I had a Westfield because at the time I couldn't afford a Caterham, it was swapped some time ago for a Caterham Supersports, and later an R400 and there is just no comparison in quality, handling etc IMHO

[big_rob_sydney]

"new" ?

Meh, these have looked the same for the last thousand years.

[framerateuk]

shirt said:

i can only compare my copy [gts clubman] a 1.4 roadsport and an r500, but i don't think it's that clear cut. fit and finish is better on the caterham but the cooking model failed to impress. cockpit was cramped [especially the pedals], seats were dire and the dash had far too many guages. granted the r500 had the wide body and adressed all these issues and then some, but you do pay a phenomenal amount for the priveledge.

Depends on if you count the widebody as a good thing though.

The appeal of the car for me is that I feel cocooned inside it. Even on a track where I'd be thrown out of my seat in a hatchback, I'm held in perfectly in the S3 Caterham. Depends on your size though, but I'd rattle around in an SV.