RE: Alpine needs its 911
Discussion
The Current Cayman S appears to be setting a benckmark so renault need to build a car that weigns 2240lbs with 200 HP to start with. there lies the problem. $50K for a 1.6 with the equipment level to match and 2240 lbs, some how I dought it. May be a stripped out Caterham version will be close. Crash regs and NHV even lotus struggle keeping the weight down on the Elise. In the end it will be seen as a lotus Elise competitor at Evora money, I dont know about you but If I was an accountant I would say your in you dreams
PunterCam said:
TurboBlue said:
PunterCam said:
A 1.6 automatic. Renault, sort it the f
k out. If they make a car that looks like this and then ruin it...
I also have no interest in the Alfa 4c because of its engine. And it looks a bit cheap, somehow... The only car making inroads in the small coupe area is the Toyburu, and even that doesn't have the right engine... If they gave it a high revving 2.5 version of their engine, with 260bhp and plenty of torque it would be the only option south of the Cayman S.
I'm a bit perplexed by this sentiment, which seems to be expressed about the move to smaller turbocharged engines; it is inevitable, there is no way that ever tightening emissions targets cannot be met unless you go down this route. It's no great surmise that the next Boxster will use a very similar engine so the choice between Alfa, Alpine & Porsche will all be 1.6/1.75/2 litre turbocharged. Remember too that the 110-50 is not due until 2016, about the same time as this.k out. If they make a car that looks like this and then ruin it...I also have no interest in the Alfa 4c because of its engine. And it looks a bit cheap, somehow... The only car making inroads in the small coupe area is the Toyburu, and even that doesn't have the right engine... If they gave it a high revving 2.5 version of their engine, with 260bhp and plenty of torque it would be the only option south of the Cayman S.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=127...
k all more). Small turbos for clios and fiestas - lovely, no probs - they're huge sellers, and making these largely city-bound cars clean is a no brainer. Hell, I'd happily buy an electric car for town use if I could make it work (and lived in a big town!). But these alfa's and alpine's are never going to sell millions - they're everyday toys for people who don't (shouldn't(!)) mind paying a few quid extra on road tax and petrol. If there are EU fines/incentives towards the manufacturers to make everything pollute less then you can understand the desire to downsize engines, but in cases like this it's clearly in no ones interest, and the powers that be should recognise that. If you just give them the same drivetrain as a clio and mito then what's the point? It's never going to be special, regardless of looks or handling. Might as well give it a turbo diesel - they're efficient and clean (apparently). I despair.
Perhaps, you too are unaware of Alpine’s history; I have, by far, posted more than enough pictures today of my Renault 5 Turbo, so I’m not going to do any more but this mid-engined, 1,397cc intercooled, turbocharged, impractical and properly expensive, Alpine factory produced car sold no less than 4,987 units between 1980-86.
The engine in that was the same as fitted to the much cheaper & slower R5 Gordini of the period, did that matter? Apparently not.
auyt said:
The Current Cayman S appears to be setting a benckmark so renault need to build a car that weigns 2240lbs with 200 HP to start with. there lies the problem. $50K for a 1.6 with the equipment level to match and 2240 lbs, some how I dought it.
These are good points. Lotus has demonstrated the severe risk of targeting a niche which doesn't exist.If Renault are serious they needs to build a useable sportscar at a sensible price. Sadly the "enthusiast" market contains a lot of talk and not a great deal of cash. Right now Mr Porsche has IMO got the £50k segment sewn up tight with Boxster and Cayman. Risky to stick a toe in that water.
RB5_245 said:
The lotus exige used a rover K-Seires. Last I checked they were pretty desirable and came in at about 50k when they were launched. I wouldn't discount the Alpine just yet.
desirable - oh yes, dynamically stunning - yes, financially successful - erm no, not really as much as lotus would like. I fear Alpine will suffer the same way.
RB5_245 said:
The lotus exige used a rover K-Seires. Last I checked they were pretty desirable and came in at about 50k when they were launched. I wouldn't discount the Alpine just yet.
a) That was 13 years ago.b) They were £33k, not £50k, even allowing for inflation, they're not comparable.
c) Renault will want to shift more than the handful of S1 Exiges Lotus did.
The problem is, if it is being seen as a Elise style car, then at £20k+ more expensive, people will go for the Elise and if they want something a little more track inspired then there is the Ginetta G40/G40R at a similar price to the Elise.
If they want to attack the Cayman/4C/Evora, then for people to want it, it has to have an impact of a car worth £10k more than the Cayman, which I doubt(this is where the Evora fell down in my opinion).
Then finally, if they want the small engined, bags of fun and easy to slide round the roundabouts type of car, then they are up against the GT86/BRZ/MX5, but at double the price, it would never work.
I can't actually see where it could possibly sit without going for a price point of £30k. At £50k, the road going market has the Evora, 4C and the Cayman and the track car market has the Caterham, Radical, Exige, G50, etc.
If they want to attack the Cayman/4C/Evora, then for people to want it, it has to have an impact of a car worth £10k more than the Cayman, which I doubt(this is where the Evora fell down in my opinion).
Then finally, if they want the small engined, bags of fun and easy to slide round the roundabouts type of car, then they are up against the GT86/BRZ/MX5, but at double the price, it would never work.
I can't actually see where it could possibly sit without going for a price point of £30k. At £50k, the road going market has the Evora, 4C and the Cayman and the track car market has the Caterham, Radical, Exige, G50, etc.
Marc p said:
I can't actually see where it could possibly sit without going for a price point of £30k. At £50k, the road going market has the Evora, 4C and the Cayman and the track car market has the Caterham, Radical, Exige, G50, etc.
Renault aren’t going to price it at £30,000 because that would make it a direct competitor for the upper end of the Renaultsport Megane models.I would also expect Alpine to pitch the car at the competitors it feels that it should be in competition with, just the same as in the past; those would be Porsche, Lotus and now with the 4C, Alfa Romeo. This has not always worked out, the GTA and A610 bear testament to that but it depends upon the degree of integrity and perseverance Alpine-Caterham are prepared to bring to the job in hand.
The marketing from Renault suggests (A110 referencing & Monte Carlo Historic/’our 911’/ambitious price point) that they understand this and that the engineering must therefore reflect that.
TurboBlue said:
I would also expect Alpine to pitch the car at the competitors it feels that it should be in competition with, just the same as in the past;
And therein lies the problem, they have produced some great cars in the past but always pitched them, not necessarily against the wrong market, but completely the wrong price point, if they started and got established at the lower end(£25k-£30k market), then the competition is easier and they can build up from that.Marc p said:
TurboBlue said:
I would also expect Alpine to pitch the car at the competitors it feels that it should be in competition with, just the same as in the past;
And therein lies the problem, they have produced some great cars in the past but always pitched them, not necessarily against the wrong market, but completely the wrong price point, if they started and got established at the lower end(£25k-£30k market), then the competition is easier and they can build up from that.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff