RE: Porsche Panamera facelift: Review

[ajprice]

Leebo310 said:

I'm sure a big chunk of the hatred of them is because of the Top Gear opinion anyway.

Maybe. but I'm pretty sure I thought it didn't look good before Clarkson said so. Porsche do seem to be getting over their "Make everything look like a 911" phase now, a little bit .

Edited by ajprice on Tuesday 25th June 14:22

[aston addict]

I used to think that they looked like an unpolished t*rd - however the looks grow on you - especially in a darker hue - and it certainly has presence, which, say, a 7 series or Jag XJ lacks in comparison.

If I was after a large barge and could afford it, this would be my choice (well - the GTS anyway)...

[Jayinjapan]

aston addict said:

however the looks grow on you - especially in a darker hue - and it certainly has presence

I see a couple knocking around near my place every morning on the way in to work, one black, one white. The black one looks decent, hides it's derriere well, the other one...., well there's a very good reason why people with big butts shouldn't wear white.

[EdM]

Porsche ...'Do it, do it'....(think dodgeball).

Carl_Docklands said:

We wait patiently....


paris-2012-porsche-panamera-sport-turismo-shooting-brake-live-photos_7 by bestofbritish96, on Flickr

[LuS1fer]

aston addict said:

I used to think that they looked like an unpolished t*rd - however the looks grow on you - especially in a darker hue - and it certainly has presence, which, say, a 7 series or Jag XJ lacks in comparison.

If I was after a large barge and could afford it, this would be my choice (well - the GTS anyway)...

There are black and silver ones near me. They don't get any better with time, you just see more and more to be aghast at.

What does the front of that concept look like? The back end is a good stab at style but I fear they won't be able to step away from the 911 up front.

[ajprice]

LuS1fer said:

What does the front of that concept look like? The back end is a good stab at style but I fear they won't be able to step away from the 911 up front.

[kambites]

I've always thought the front of the Panamera works OK, as long as you can't see anything behind the B pillar. Not particularly keen on the DRL things (I assume that's what they are) in the front vents of the concept, but the overall shape of the nose is OK.

[LuS1fer]

ajprice said:

LuS1fer said:

What does the front of that concept look like? The back end is a good stab at style but I fear they won't be able to step away from the 911 up front.

Not bad. Certainly palatable but still too 911 for my liking. It could be made slightly more 928-ish while retaining the 911-ness but let's be fair, nest to the current one, it's the Mona Lisa.

[gsuk1]

Stu R said:

I'd have the GTS in a heartbeat.
Really don't see them as an ugly car - quite the opposite. Rare opinion on here I know, but it's much less revolting than many other uber-barges to my eyes.
Not totally sold on the rear, but then it never was the most photogenic of cars, significantly better in the metal though IMO.

Edited by Stu R on Monday 24th June 14:57

I couldn't agree more!
And the interior is such a nice place to be!

[toppstuff]

gsuk1 said:

Stu R said:

I'd have the GTS in a heartbeat.
Really don't see them as an ugly car - quite the opposite. Rare opinion on here I know, but it's much less revolting than many other uber-barges to my eyes.
Not totally sold on the rear, but then it never was the most photogenic of cars, significantly better in the metal though IMO.

Edited by Stu R on Monday 24th June 14:57

I couldn't agree more!
And the interior is such a nice place to be!

Completely agree.

Judging by the success of the car, many people also agree.

Strange that Porsche have sold 25-30,000 Panamera's while Aston struggle to even have made 2000 Rapides.

Still, PH is always right.

I find the irony that purely from a design perspective, people call the Panamera ugly while they themselves see no problem with the Peugeots, Subarus, Citroen Picasso and assorted other cars that often have design features that blight our view in their millions.

We seem utterly oblivious to the gopping ugliness of a modern Peugeot or Citroen (for example ) and their fishy mouth even though the damn things are everywhere.

I get offended by the looks of a Peugeot 308/207/Picasso every single day I see that pug eyed open mouth they have. Yet no-one seems to notice.

Then someone posts a picture of a Panamera and everyone says "ugly!".

There are far, far, far uglier cars out there in their millions that people can object to. Yet the sheep pick out the Panamera. It is utterly bizarre. It also only seems to be the British that feel this way. Maybe its the Top Gear effect.

[LuS1fer]

Nothing to do with Top Gear, whose opinions I automatically disregard.

Peugeot et al may not be great lookers but they are bread and butter cars (that said, the 508 is a very good-looking car). the Porsche, on the other hand is expensive, meant to be supercarish and is gopping.

I'm sure some people do see the 911 cues and find it acceptable but more objective, unbiased people don't. As said above, i like the concept so it can't be an anti-Porsche thing.
I also think the Ferrari FF is gopping)

[nigelpugh7]

I bet they have not changed one major design flaw though!

Namely the rear seat passenger comfort.

We looked at getting one to replace the family Land Rover discovery, when they were first released.

We went to the Porsche launch event at Silverstone Porsche And had one for the weekend.

At the Porsche event I drove different models around the track and in road too.

Luckily I was also a rear seat passenger too, otherwise I might have bought one.

The seat in the back is spacious and comfortable, but.

Spend more than half an hour in it and you start to feel queasy, and I am a good rear seat passenger too.

It was confirmed when we had the loan model for the weekend, and Tom and Lucy sat as passengers in the back.

Within 15 Minutes of the drive, Tom who was 4 at the time told me he felt sick! And indeed he looked very white!

I think it's down to how the rear seat passengers sit right over the movement of the rear axle.

It was enough to stop me buying one!

[PGM]

Must say I've not experienced the same, nor have my kids at 12 and 9 although I can see how they would do sitting lower for younger kids as the window line is quite high.

[xRIEx]

toppstuff said:

Strange that Porsche have sold 25-30,000 Panamera's while Aston struggle to even have made 2000 Rapides.

Still, PH is always right.

Cheapest Panamera - <£63K incl VAT
Cheapest Rapide - >£147K

Is it really that strange?


toppstuff's next revelation, Ford sell more Fiestas than Bugatti sell Veyrons.

[toppstuff]

xRIEx said:

Cheapest Panamera - <£63K incl VAT
Cheapest Rapide - >£147K

Is it really that strange?


toppstuff's next revelation, Ford sell more Fiestas than Bugatti sell Veyrons.

So how do you explain that most Panamera's sold internationally have been Turbo's and V8's, costing £100k plus, much closer in price to the Aston?

Aston planned to make 2000 Rapides a year and they have scaled that back by some 75%.... Meanwhile, a Turbo S is now pushing 140k with options and production is expanded.

So it is more likely explained by the fact that the Panamera is better suited to its purpose and therefore has more appeal.

[RenesisEvo]

toppstuff said:

So it is more likely explained by the fact that the Panamera is better suited to its purpose and therefore has more appeal.

This, IMO. I've sat in the back of both a Panamera and a Rapide. I'd liken the Aston to what I imagine squeezing to an Evora 2+2 would be like - it's very tight, the transmission tunnel is really tall and the seat in front of you really hems you in. You wouldn't want to be in the Rapide for more than an hour. Speaking to an Aston engineer, that was their intention - it wasn't meant to be for 4-5 hours comfort. Unlike the Panamera, which feels positively spacious and airy in comparison, even for me at 6ft+ in height. I'd happily sit in a 'mera to cross the continents, the Aston I'd think twice about. Having said that, the Aston retains good looks, whereas Porsche's need to accomodate an incredibly tall boss (Wiedeking?) in the rear forced that awkward high rear roofline.

I actually don't much like the facelift, there's something about the rear bumper crease that doesn't work on that car, when it clearly works on the concept.

[nigelpugh7]

PGM said:

Must say I've not experienced the same, nor have my kids at 12 and 9 although I can see how they would do sitting lower for younger kids as the window line is quite high.

Glad that it did not affect your kids then!!

I have to say though that I also felt a bit weird in the back after a while, and I am 6ft 2!!

I loved driving it though, and pleased that you are enjoying yours too!!

[LuS1fer]

toppstuff said:

So how do you explain that most Panamera's sold internationally have been Turbo's and V8's, costing £100k plus, much closer in price to the Aston?

Aston planned to make 2000 Rapides a year and they have scaled that back by some 75%.... Meanwhile, a Turbo S is now pushing 140k with options and production is expanded.

So it is more likely explained by the fact that the Panamera is better suited to its purpose and therefore has more appeal.

May be a simple "Porsche has a lot more dealers" issue.

[toppstuff]

LuS1fer said:

toppstuff said:

So how do you explain that most Panamera's sold internationally have been Turbo's and V8's, costing £100k plus, much closer in price to the Aston?

Aston planned to make 2000 Rapides a year and they have scaled that back by some 75%.... Meanwhile, a Turbo S is now pushing 140k with options and production is expanded.

So it is more likely explained by the fact that the Panamera is better suited to its purpose and therefore has more appeal.

May be a simple "Porsche has a lot more dealers" issue.

Nah. Aston have all the core markets covered, but the car just does not fit the market. The Panamera does.

If you changed the Rapide so that it actually had enough room for 4 adults for long distances, it would end up looking like the Panamera anyway...

[ajprice]

toppstuff said:

If you changed the Rapide so that it actually had enough room for 4 adults for long distances, it would end up looking like the Panamera anyway...

There was this Bertone Rapide Shooting Brake, I think that still looks decent. The aston grille shaped boot lid/hatch might be a bit OTT, other than that, I like.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/aston-martin/r...