RE: Mercedes A45 AMG: Review

[SonicHedgeHog]

kambites said:

Almost certainly true, but some people's idea of speccing it "properly" might involve not selecting any options simply because they don't want any of them. Certainly I can't see much that isn't standard which I'd want.

Speccing a car for resale always struct me as daft. I'm not convinced there's such a thing as an optional extra that doesn't depreciate.

I agree some people just want the basic car, or at least that is what they say. Most promotional bumf has pictures of the car laden with expensive goodies. Not all of them are 'necessary', but your car can end up looking properly boring if you just go for the basic spec. The Germans are the worst at this - how often do you see an expensive 3/5 series or non-S Line Audi and wonder how tight the original owner must have been? Tiny wheels, boring cabin, cheap paint....and the car still costs a fortune. And what do you really save? In percentage terms not that much and what price do you put on the feel good factor of having the car you REALLY want?

[kambites]

SonicHedgeHog said:

The Germans are the worst at this - how often do you see an expensive 3/5 series or non-S Line Audi and wonder how tight the original owner must have been?

Personally, I tend to think the opposite - I think it's refreshing to see small-wheeled, non-body kitted cars on the road because they're almost universally better than the rather pathetic attempt at making such cars "sporty". I prefer manual cloth seats to automated leather ones, I don't like built-in sat-nav, steering wheel controls for things just annoy me, big wheels ruin the ride and handling,...

If I was out to buy a BMW or Audi, it definitely would not be an M-Sport or S-Line and would definitely have the smallest wheels and softest suspension available and would probably have very few options, even if all the options were no-cost.

[astirling]

kambites said:

Personally, I tend to think the opposite - I think it's refreshing to see small-wheeled, non-body kitted cars on the road because they're almost universally better than the rather pathetic attempt at making such cars "sporty".

If I was out to buy a BMW or Audi, it definitely would not be an M-Sport or S-Line and would definitely have the smallest wheels and softest suspension available.

That's because it's in your nature to disagree with anything the majority do

You do have a point about the silly hard suspension though...

[kambites]

astirling said:

That's because it's in your nature to disagree with anything the majority do.

Hmm, I think I'd prefer to say it's in my nature to not automatically agree with everything the majority do just because the majority do it.

[SonicHedgeHog]

braddo said:

Not everyone likes gadgets/bling/leather. The UK market generally goes for higher specifications than most other markets - I don't know why.

£37k will still buy a nicely equipped, practical car that is also crazy fast.

Put two cars side by side. One with all the toys and one basic spec. Then let potential buyers nose around. Everyone will make a beeline for the top spec car. That is the car they want, it's just that they don't want to pay for it and convince themselves that "the basic car does everything I need it to do". Yes it does, but every time they pull up at the traffic lights next to the car they REALLY want it'll niggle. The car manufacturers spend hundreds of millions working out this kind of stuff and know exactly what they're doing.

[kambites]

SonicHedgeHog said:

Put two cars side by side. One with all the toys and one basic spec. Then let potential buyers nose around. Everyone will make a beeline for the top spec car. That is the car they want, it's just that they don't want to pay for it and convince themselves that "the basic car does everything I need it to do". Yes it does, but every time they pull up at the traffic lights next to the car they REALLY want it'll niggle. The car manufacturers spend hundreds of millions working out this kind of stuff and know exactly what they're doing.

You're clearly talking about yourself, and quite possibly a large majority of other drivers but you are not speaking for everyone there.

[SonicHedgeHog]

kambites said:

Personally, I tend to think the opposite - I think it's refreshing to see small-wheeled, non-body kitted cars on the road because they're almost universally better than the rather pathetic attempt at making such cars "sporty". I prefer manual cloth seats to automated leather ones, I don't like built-in sat-nav, steering wheel controls for things just annoy me, big wheels ruin the ride and handling,...

If I was out to buy a BMW or Audi, it definitely would not be an M-Sport or S-Line and would definitely have the smallest wheels and softest suspension available and would probably have very few options, even if all the options were no-cost.

That's because you have a selection of sports cars in your garage at home. If you only had one car and could drive nothing else for 3 years until your lease was up I don't believe for one minute you'd go for the boring barge. You'd want some excitement and would, at the purchasing stage at least, forgive the crap ride and go for exciting looks and some toys.

[kambites]

SonicHedgeHog said:

That's because you have a selection of sports cars in your garage at home. If you only had one car and could drive nothing else for 3 years until your lease was up I don't believe for one minute you'd go for the boring barge. You'd want some excitement and would, at the purchasing stage at least, forgive the crap ride and go for exciting looks and some toys.

Each to their own, but I don't find having my teeth shaken out exciting. Nor do I find huge blingy wheels or stupidly over-priced built-in sat nav exciting.

There are a handful of things I'd want - dual zone climate control in a tin top probably being the most likely to be a significant cost option (although I think it's increasingly becoming standard these days).

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 9th July 11:02

[SonicHedgeHog]

kambites said:

You're clearly talking about yourself, and quite possibly a large majority of other drivers but you are not speaking for everyone there.

Maybe not everyone, but I am talking about the vast majority. Why else would all the hugely profitable German car makers have followed this philosophy for the last 20+ years.

[kambites]

SonicHedgeHog said:

kambites said:

You're clearly talking about yourself, and quite possibly a large majority of other drivers but you are not speaking for everyone there.

Maybe not everyone, but I am talking about the vast majority. Why else would all the hugely profitable German car makers have followed this philosophy for the last 20+ years.

Of course, although I think there's a bit of a circular cause and effect there. Manufacturers are obviously providing (and profiting from) what most customers want, but on the other hand I think manufacturers and reviewers are also very good at convincing customers that they want things.

In many other countries it is not the case. In my experience you'll see far more low-spec cars in most of the rest of Europe than in the UK.

[SonicHedgeHog]

kambites said:

Each to their own, but I don't find having my teeth shaken out exciting. Nor do I find huge blingy wheels or stupidly over-priced built-in sat nav exciting.

There are a handful of things I'd want - dual zone climate control in a tin top probably being the most likely to be a significant cost option (although I think it's increasingly becoming standard these days).

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 9th July 11:02

You say that now, but look at your Elise. Why didn't you get the basic no frills version? It's because you liked the enhanced spec of the more expensive car. With the exception of weight, more is always better. Even if it isn't better the extra sparkle makes you believe it is. You just have to get the price right to sucker people in.

[SonicHedgeHog]

kambites said:

In many other countries it is not the case. In my experience you'll see far more low-spec cars in most of the rest of Europe than in the UK.

That is true. Although most people in Germany, where most of these cars are sold, lease them. In the UK we buy a lot of our cars. I wonder if that is the reason behind the difference? Maybe the basic car is super cheap on a lease compared to the high spec version? Whatever the reason, for the same money, the vast majority of people in the world will choose the car with 'more' over the car with 'less' every time.

Right...off to play some golf.

[bertie]

I've not driven an A45, but I test drove an A250 Engineered by AMG and a BMW M135i back to back the other week.

In the Merc the plastic trim felt cheap, the whole thing was dark, very high waisted and claustrophobic, particularly in the back.
The engine was rough, if you left it in normal it had you into 7th at under 30 mph, if you put it in sport it revved it's nuts off, the gearbox was forever changing gear!
But by far the worst thing was the jarring ride, painfully uncomfortable, truly shockingly bad, and I'm used to firm rides.
The wife couldn't wait to give it back.

The BMW felt far nicer, smooth engine, great auto box, really comfy ride and felt far better quality, so that's what I bought.

[astirling]

bertie said:

The BMW felt far nicer, smooth engine, great auto box, really comfy ride and felt far better quality, so that's what I bought.

Welcome to the club

[kambites]

SonicHedgeHog said:

You say that now, but look at your Elise. Why didn't you get the basic no frills version?

I did. My car has no optional extras at all (unless you count the VVC engine and things that come with it as standard); it took me ages to find a good one without air-con.

[braddo]

SonicHedgeHog said:

Put two cars side by side. One with all the toys and one basic spec. Then let potential buyers nose around. Everyone will make a beeline for the top spec car. That is the car they want, it's just that they don't want to pay for it and convince themselves that "the basic car does everything I need it to do". Yes it does, but every time they pull up at the traffic lights next to the car they REALLY want it'll niggle. The car manufacturers spend hundreds of millions working out this kind of stuff and know exactly what they're doing.

Perhaps it will niggle, perhaps it won't. For many it won't be a case of whether something can be afforded, but whether it's value for money for that person. So while they might think carbon mirror covers look cool, they might also think only idiots would pay over £1200 for them. They want the mirrors a bit, but not that much.

Personally, if I bought an A45 and somehow felt that my ideal spec cost £50k, what would REALLY niggle me would be pulling up next to a C63 and discovering that it cost a similar amount to lease as my A45!

[loudlashadjuster]

braddo said:

Perhaps it will niggle, perhaps it won't. For many it won't be a case of whether something can be afforded, but whether it's value for money for that person. So while they might think carbon mirror covers look cool, they might also think only idiots would pay over £1200 for them. They want the mirrors a bit, but not that much.

Personally, if I bought an A45 and somehow felt that my ideal spec cost £50k, what would REALLY niggle me would be pulling up next to a C63 and discovering that it cost a similar amount to lease as my A45!

And that is the crux of where I am with the A45. We've a C at the moment and very nice it is too.

I can see me convincing Mrs L that an A45 wouldn't deliver that much worse economy than our C220CDI (don't laugh, its average is only about 39mpg), but the fact that the C63 costs the same makes it look expensive, even if I have to gloss over the likely 2xMPG it'll get when blinding her with my Excel-y man maths.

[squirdan]

I am booking a test drive and as an additional answer to who buys these...someone like me.

I do a few trackdays and like old porsches and those interests are covered by other vehicles. I dont do a "dap of oppo" on the public road - what i want is a practical Q car, with some luxury, some gadgets, room for the kids in the back, that wont attract attention from thieves, nutters or police. And is wieldy enough to do battle in a urban environment whilst also fitting in a normal parking space.

I like 4wd road cars because theres nothing more frustrating than trying to use your 330bhp+ and just getting a flashing traction light on wet slimey London roads. Or getting up and finding its icy or snowy and getting to work becomes a pain. Or drive over a wet field to go fishing etc

So. this A45 hits the spot I think. In the real world given the torque its probably faster and not much smaller than a new RS4 which is 20k more pricey. I have considered an SQ5 or RSQ3 but frankly I dont need a mini-SUV. C63's and M3's are great value 2nd hand but poor mpg and higher running costs. I like my current Golf R and this appears to take the same concept a step further. Its not a car of passion, its a finely honed utility vehicle that does what it says on the tin with next to no compromises required of the owner. The fact it looks boring is the icing on the cake IMHO.

[hondansx]

I'll stick my head above the parapet and declare that i am within the target market too.

I'm one of those crazies who purchased a near £40k Golf R. I wanted something subtle, practical, comfortable yet barnstormingly quick without being too uneconomical when i do near 25,000 miles a year. When you add in the requirement to have a level of specification of a 'luxury' car, there are actually precious few options.

So the A45 looks like a great replacement. My only issue is the looks; great from some angles, but lacking a bit of butch as Chris has mentioned. I'll therefore wait to see what the new Golf R looks like before making a decision.

[Contigo]

I will test drive this for sure as it appeals to me more than the M135i. Anyone who has driven one care to comment on the suspension and ride? I've read the Evo review and they say that it is extremely hard to live with!