Driving to the letter of the highway code.....

[Bridgewaterfalls]

Craikeybaby said:

You should be checking the left wing mirror (and ideally blind spot) whenever you turn the steering wheel to the left.

In your situation there shouldn't have been a car there, but you can't assume there won't be when you turn in.

+1

Mirror, signal, manoeuvre is the mantra. On the motorway the Highway Code suggests use your mirrors more, due to the speed of traffic.

Using the hard shoulder to pass on the near side as the OP was indicating to pull into the slip road sounds dheadish in the extreme. But, we should should observe for dangers, could equally have been a bike filtering or an emergency vehicle.

I regularly have the delight of exiting the clockwise M60 at j13 with the eastbound M62 traffic merging on my near side a few hundred yards before the exit. I always check my near side before moving left, otherwise I'd be T boned weekly.

Bikers use the term lifesaver for a last check over the shoulder before manoeuvring, and its something we should all do. It would have saved the lass in the M40 crash thread a whole heap of trouble!

[Bluebarge]

Captain Muppet said:

What does the highway code say you should do before "signal"? Mirror isn't it?

So do that.

Edited by Captain Muppet on Wednesday 31st July 11:54

Don't be silly - he was in lane 1, had his left indicator on for 300m before the exit and any car driving on the hard shoulder should (a) not have been there (b) have anticipated that the car in lane 1 and indicating left might, you know, possibly be thinking of turning left at the exit?

Hard shoulder chav was a total knob and would have been 100% in the wrong if there was a collision plus looking at a minimum 3 points. PH default sympathy for someone wanting to "make progress" should not over-ride common sense.

[trashbat]

Bluebarge said:

Don't be silly - he was in lane 1, had his left indicator on for 300m before the exit and any car driving on the hard shoulder should (a) not have been there (b) have anticipated that the car in lane 1 and indicating left might, you know, possibly be thinking of turning left at the exit?

So no need to check your mirrors if the person that will appear in them is at fault?

[GC8]

Ozzie Osmond said:

AJI said:

My experiment was over a 7 day period and took in a variety of roads, from small villages, to London streets and also various motorways and 'A' roads. Most of them at some point resulted in a driver displaying some sort of 'aggression'

If you're deliberately driving in a way which annoys other road users then you're driving like an idiot - it's as simple as that. Just keep off the roads, please, and let normal humans get on with their lives.

Unlike you, who deliberately posts like an idiot in order to ps off other forum members.

Just keep off the internet, please.

[Craikeybaby]

Bluebarge said:

Don't be silly - he was in lane 1, had his left indicator on for 300m before the exit and any car driving on the hard shoulder should (a) not have been there (b) have anticipated that the car in lane 1 and indicating left might, you know, possibly be thinking of turning left at the exit?

Hard shoulder chav was a total knob and would have been 100% in the wrong if there was a collision plus looking at a minimum 3 points. PH default sympathy for someone wanting to "make progress" should not over-ride common sense.

I wasn't condoning the guy in the hard shoulder, and agree he was in the wrong. However, are you seriously saying that people should manoeuvre without checking the space they are moving into is empty?

[Captain Muppet]

Bluebarge said:

Captain Muppet said:

What does the highway code say you should do before "signal"? Mirror isn't it?

So do that.

Edited by Captain Muppet on Wednesday 31st July 11:54

Don't be silly - he was in lane 1, had his left indicator on for 300m before the exit and any car driving on the hard shoulder should (a) not have been there (b) have anticipated that the car in lane 1 and indicating left might, you know, possibly be thinking of turning left at the exit?

Hard shoulder chav was a total knob and would have been 100% in the wrong if there was a collision plus looking at a minimum 3 points. PH default sympathy for someone wanting to "make progress" should not over-ride common sense.

I have no sympathy at all for hard should chav, who was driving stupidly.

However I also have no sympathy for the OP who claims sticking to the HC is dangerous but doesn't check his mirrors before turning left.

[Bluebarge]

Craikeybaby said:

I wasn't condoning the guy in the hard shoulder, and agree he was in the wrong. However, are you seriously saying that people should manoeuvre without checking the space they are moving into is empty?

Nope, but the hard shoulder is not a "space" on which any moving vehicle should be unless it is broken-down or an emergency vehicle and the poster had already checked his mirrors and was indicating for a long period so anyone not sporting blues n'twos who moves into that dead road is at fault - otherwise - do you check a wide verge for fast-moving trail bikes or tractors when turning left on a two-lane highway?
Chavvy McChav was at fault all day long I'm afraid

[trashbat]

If you're happy to have a non-fault accident, that's fine. Better to avoid it IMO.

[Captain Muppet]

Given that Chavvy McChav caused all of the danger, and is a dick, which we all agree on, there is still the issue of the OP claiming to drive to the letter of the highway code.

The Highway Code - Using the road said:

182
Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle. Cyclists, motorcyclists and other road users in particular may be hidden from your view.

Sensible advice for a safer Britian.

[Craikeybaby]

Bluebarge said:

Nope, but the hard shoulder is not a "space" on which any moving vehicle should be unless it is broken-down or an emergency vehicle and the poster had already checked his mirrors and was indicating for a long period so anyone not sporting blues n'twos who moves into that dead road is at fault - otherwise - do you check a wide verge for fast-moving trail bikes or tractors when turning left on a two-lane highway?
Chavvy McChav was at fault all day long I'm afraid

I check my left mirror for any hazard immediately before turning left, onto a slip road, a 2 lane highway or even pulling back in after passing a line of parked cars because I want to know that the space I'm moving into is clear, rather than relying on other drivers sticking to the law.

[Bridgewaterfalls]

Bluebarge said:

Craikeybaby said:

I wasn't condoning the guy in the hard shoulder, and agree he was in the wrong. However, are you seriously saying that people should manoeuvre without checking the space they are moving into is empty?

Nope, but the hard shoulder is not a "space" on which any moving vehicle should be unless it is broken-down or an emergency vehicle and the poster had already checked his mirrors and was indicating for a long period so anyone not sporting blues n'twos who moves into that dead road is at fault - otherwise - do you check a wide verge for fast-moving trail bikes or tractors when turning left on a two-lane highway?
Chavvy McChav was at fault all day long I'm afraid

Of course the driver on the hard shoulder was a cretin, and was driving stupidly. If an accident had occurred he would be to blame. The OP was originally talking about driving to the letter of the Highway Code.

Rule 161
Mirrors. All mirrors should be used effectively throughout your journey. You should

use your mirrors frequently so that you always know what is behind and to each side of you
use them in good time before you signal or change direction or speed
be aware that mirrors do not cover all areas and there will be blind spots.
You will need to look round and check.

Remember: Mirrors – Signal – Manoeuvre

The OP was put in a hazardous situation by another's dangerous driving. If, before the OP had changed direction, he had used his mirrors and checked the blind spot to know what is behind and to each side of his car, he and his family would have been exposed to less hazzard. By the sound of it he was lucky the dhead didn't wipe him out!

As I said before, it's called a life saver on a motorbike, for good reason. Personally I'd just use my mirrors.

[AC43]

AJI said:

Again, would you guys think that with me sticking to this 2 second rule had forced tension/aggression on to other motorists?

The replies so far seem to be split on this 2 second rule. But I do find it strange that some motorist react this way when they see an amount of space in front of your car and think that this space should be filled with another vehicle.

Sound like he's related to the divot who overtook me at speed in a 20 and nearly hit the wheelchair user I had slowed to avoid.

There's not much logic in these people's heads - just a lot of me! me! me! now! now! now!

[StottyZr]

AJI said:

The replies so far seem to be split on this 2 second rule. But I do find it strange that some motorist react this way when they see an amount of space in front of your car and think that this space should be filled with another vehicle.

The problem with the 2second rule is that its down to each individuals judgement.

It'd be interesting to see any dashcam footage of this and what you define as a 2second gap.

[RicksAlfas]

On my commute there is a single carriageway A-road which goes from a 40 into a 30. Last week there was a camera van parked just after the speed limit change, so yesterday as I approached the 30 sign I slowed to make sure I was doing 30 at the sign. Chap behind overtook me on the ghost island and bombed down the 30 zone at 40+. No camera van that day...

[hidetheelephants]

StottyZr said:

AJI said:

The replies so far seem to be split on this 2 second rule. But I do find it strange that some motorist react this way when they see an amount of space in front of your car and think that this space should be filled with another vehicle.

The problem with the 2second rule is that its down to each individuals judgement.

It'd be interesting to see any dashcam footage of this and what you define as a 2second gap.

What's discretionary about it? Pick a feature(street lamp, tree, tramp, etc) and start counting when the rear of the car in front passes it; if you can't get past 2 seconds before the front of your car passes the feature you're too close.

[Kentish]

The problem with the Highway Code and the suggested safety margins (particularly the stopping distances) is that they haven't been updated since 1946 which is the first year the highway code included a table of stopping distances.

The technology in cars, their braking systems and tyres has come on a long way since then.

[GadgeS3C]

Kentish said:

The problem with the Highway Code and the suggested safety margins (particularly the stopping distances) is that they haven't been updated since 1946 which is the first year the highway code included a table of stopping distances.

The technology in cars, their braking systems and tyres has come on a long way since then.

Totally agree - sadly the selection process for the squishy control unit has gone backwards.

[trashbat]

Kentish said:

The problem with the Highway Code and the suggested safety margins (particularly the stopping distances) is that they haven't been updated since 1946 which is the first year the highway code included a table of stopping distances.

The technology in cars, their braking systems and tyres has come on a long way since then.

So has your disengagement from the act of driving, traffic density, and a few other balancing factors. Add to that the thinking distance hasn't changed, and the typical pedal force applied doesn't fully exploit the improved capability (unless it has emergency brake assist).

I'd make an uneducated guess that the average driver wouldn't be much below the HC distances - and if you are, there's a big line of them behind to worry about.