RE: Could you buy a BMW i3?

[E60M5]

Stupid stupid stupid! Firstly, it's hideous! The interior is pretty chic though.. Technically it's also ridiculous as it isn't the solution for the modern enviro + car's problems! Sure, they don't produce CO2s when driving but the changing and getting rid of batteries, production of the cars etc. is as bad if not worse than the cars we already drive! Nor is it a sustainable solution! The energy has to come from somewhere and the only proper way to make easy electrical power is through nuclear energy (which seems to have been nearly abandoned by most countries anyways). If we use the new nuke power plants that the French have created, there isn't any old rods that will need to be discarded and wreak radiation havoc over huge areas that are usually buried under ground! I guess what I'm trying to say is that this solution ISN'T SUSTAINABLE. Not the most flexible of transportation either, with terrible ranges (thanks to the cars weighing ridiculous amounts), a lack of infrastructure and often stupid recharge times. Perhaps they will be the future eventually but for now the combustion engine still has much life left in it (reusable/man-made fuels, hydrogen etc.). We need more cars like the P1, 918, Panamera e-hybrid etc that focus on being fun, delivering awesome performance and ultimately reducing CO2s. A focus on light weight composites is key to the future as well. Pardon my rant! Hate the hype around this stuff..

[Mr Gear]

E60M5 said:

Stupid stupid stupid! Firstly, it's hideous! The interior is pretty chic though.. Technically it's also ridiculous as it isn't the solution for the modern enviro + car's problems! Sure, they don't produce CO2s when driving but the changing and getting rid of batteries, production of the cars etc. is as bad if not worse than the cars we already drive! Nor is it a sustainable solution! The energy has to come from somewhere and the only proper way to make easy electrical power is through nuclear energy (which seems to have been nearly abandoned by most countries anyways). If we use the new nuke power plants that the French have created, there isn't any old rods that will need to be discarded and wreak radiation havoc over huge areas that are usually buried under ground! I guess what I'm trying to say is that this solution ISN'T SUSTAINABLE. Not the most flexible of transportation either, with terrible ranges (thanks to the cars weighing ridiculous amounts), a lack of infrastructure and often stupid recharge times. Perhaps they will be the future eventually but for now the combustion engine still has much life left in it (reusable/man-made fuels, hydrogen etc.). We need more cars like the P1, 918, Panamera e-hybrid etc that focus on being fun, delivering awesome performance and ultimately reducing CO2s. A focus on light weight composites is key to the future as well. Pardon my rant! Hate the hype around this stuff..

I wish there was some kind of FAQ that new posters would be forced to read before posting in electric car threads.

[SystemParanoia]

[vladcjelli]

Mr Gear said:

E60M5 said:

Stupid stupid stupid! Firstly, it's hideous! The interior is pretty chic though.. Technically it's also ridiculous as it isn't the solution for the modern enviro + car's problems! Sure, they don't produce CO2s when driving but the changing and getting rid of batteries, production of the cars etc. is as bad if not worse than the cars we already drive! Nor is it a sustainable solution! The energy has to come from somewhere and the only proper way to make easy electrical power is through nuclear energy (which seems to have been nearly abandoned by most countries anyways). If we use the new nuke power plants that the French have created, there isn't any old rods that will need to be discarded and wreak radiation havoc over huge areas that are usually buried under ground! I guess what I'm trying to say is that this solution ISN'T SUSTAINABLE. Not the most flexible of transportation either, with terrible ranges (thanks to the cars weighing ridiculous amounts), a lack of infrastructure and often stupid recharge times. Perhaps they will be the future eventually but for now the combustion engine still has much life left in it (reusable/man-made fuels, hydrogen etc.). We need more cars like the P1, 918, Panamera e-hybrid etc that focus on being fun, delivering awesome performance and ultimately reducing CO2s. A focus on light weight composites is key to the future as well. Pardon my rant! Hate the hype around this stuff..

I wish there was some kind of FAQ that new posters would be forced to read before posting in electric car threads.

I reckon he did read it, but misread the title.

He thought it said, "Frequently Ask Questions".

[KTF]

From reading the specs on the BMW page, there isnt a single option that I would need to tick on it aside from the Orange paint and the range is plenty for what I would need it for.

When the dealer across the road from me at work gets some in I will go and see what they are like as £369 + 2k down seems reasonable to lease one of the things.

With a tank of fuel around £70 then the more use it gets then the less it actually costs (man maths tastic).

[Fish]

I have also looked at them and will want a test drive asap....Well having spoken with them November!

[Barry38]

This transition period is key for the future resale values of cars. Similar to when AC got introduced first. It might be a little too early to buy it right now but in 3 or 4 years people want to buy a used car with that kind of technology.

[McWigglebum4th]

vladcjelli said:

Mr Gear said:

E60M5 said:

Stupid stupid stupid! Firstly, it's hideous! The interior is pretty chic though.. Technically it's also ridiculous as it isn't the solution for the modern enviro + car's problems! Sure, they don't produce CO2s when driving but the changing and getting rid of batteries, production of the cars etc. is as bad if not worse than the cars we already drive! Nor is it a sustainable solution! The energy has to come from somewhere and the only proper way to make easy electrical power is through nuclear energy (which seems to have been nearly abandoned by most countries anyways). If we use the new nuke power plants that the French have created, there isn't any old rods that will need to be discarded and wreak radiation havoc over huge areas that are usually buried under ground! I guess what I'm trying to say is that this solution ISN'T SUSTAINABLE. Not the most flexible of transportation either, with terrible ranges (thanks to the cars weighing ridiculous amounts), a lack of infrastructure and often stupid recharge times. Perhaps they will be the future eventually but for now the combustion engine still has much life left in it (reusable/man-made fuels, hydrogen etc.). We need more cars like the P1, 918, Panamera e-hybrid etc that focus on being fun, delivering awesome performance and ultimately reducing CO2s. A focus on light weight composites is key to the future as well. Pardon my rant! Hate the hype around this stuff..

I wish there was some kind of FAQ that new posters would be forced to read before posting in electric car threads.

I reckon he did read it, but misread the title.

He thought it said, "Frequently Ask Questions".

You will note it is always those that dislike electric cars are the only one that bring up the term CO2

Normally followed by the term hydrogen



Hydrogen cars an electric car without an easy way to refuel it

[DonkeyApple]

McWigglebum4th said:

You will note it is always those that dislike electric cars are the only one that bring up the term CO2

Normally followed by the term hydrogen



Hydrogen cars an electric car without an easy way to refuel it

We've grown up with all the Pandas will be dead by the morning if we don't give money, only to find that 30 years on there are still thousands of them.

All the trees in Soviet Europe will be dead in days because of Soviet acid rain. But they are all still there.

Why was it that during the Cold War most of the Eco battles were linked to Communist states?

Why was it that the Global Warming army only appeared in force after the end of the Cold War and this 'Green' movement consisted of all the people who previously worked in entities like CND and the communist party?

So, why was CO2 latched onto as a Greenhouse Gas but the far more toxic Methane sidelined?

As far as I am concerned it is all about taxation from governments along with subversive, militant, fascist groups attempting by any means to force their control over society.

The EV is not a cure for any of this and not are they a replacement for the conventional car. Only fools think this.

But these fools while focussing their ire towards EVs have missed the fact that the real revolution has been the replacement of the beautiful petrol engine with the soulless diesel.

If in 20 years time there are no petrol v8s about it won't be because of EVs or because fuel has run out but because everyone is driving a diesel.

[SystemParanoia]

Glorious v6 here

Hope to have it running on individual lpg carbs by next summer

[Richyboy]

Regarding the 180 mile range with the range extender, couldn't you just put more fuel in it to go further?

[C900]

Would I buy an i3? Not at the moment. The purchase price is a little high, IMO, but the real deal breaker is the £350-£450 per month battery lease charge. That's quite a bit more than I spend on petrol, per month, and more than my current budget could stand. The range would be a problem, as I have a weekly round trip of over 100 miles, and would have two or three 350-mile days per month, so I'd need the range-extender, and still be buying petrol.

Also, eight years / 100,000 miles is not an acceptable anticipated life for a vehicle. My daily driver is 23 years old (161,000 miles), and the part time vehicles are 15 years old (116,000 miles) and 19 years old (157,000 miles) respectively. None of those three are close to the end of their useful lives.

I'm not sure battery-powered vehicles will be *the* solution to our transport needs. Lithium production carries a hefty environmental penalty - not often thought of in e UK because the after-effects of lithium mining are not seen here. Personally, I hope the production of synthesised diesel (under trial by Audi, in the USA), and petrol (under trial in Stockton-on-Tees) linky will take off, allowing environmentally-less-costly use of the flexible and cheap internal combustion engine to continue indefinitely. And we've already set up the fuel distribution network - bonus!

[AnotherClarkey]

C900 said:

Would I buy an i3? Not at the moment. The purchase price is a little high, IMO, but the real deal breaker is the £350-£450 per month battery lease charge. That's quite a bit more than I spend on petrol, per month, and more than my current budget could stand. The range would be a problem, as I have a weekly round trip of over 100 miles, and would have two or three 350-mile days per month, so I'd need the range-extender, and still be buying petrol.

Also, eight years / 100,000 miles is not an acceptable anticipated life for a vehicle. My daily driver is 23 years old (161,000 miles), and the part time vehicles are 15 years old (116,000 miles) and 19 years old (157,000 miles) respectively. None of those three are close to the end of their useful lives.

I'm not sure battery-powered vehicles will be *the* solution to our transport needs. Lithium production carries a hefty environmental penalty - not often thought of in e UK because the after-effects of lithium mining are not seen here. Personally, I hope the production of synthesised diesel (under trial by Audi, in the USA), and petrol (under trial in Stockton-on-Tees) linky will take off, allowing environmentally-less-costly use of the flexible and cheap internal combustion engine to continue indefinitely. And we've already set up the fuel distribution network - bonus!

There is no battery lease charge with the i3, you buy then outright with the car.

[C900]

Ah. I'd confused the car lease charge with a battery lease (as per Nissan Leaf). That makes the cost of running an i3 lower than I'd thought, but still a big outlay - particularly given that my daily driver costs nothing in depreciation.

[Garybee]

Can't see me ever buying something like this. I don't buy new cars and I suspect that these will be pretty worthless as 2nd hand buys due to batteries requiring replacement.

[Kolbenkopp]

Surprised this gets so much opposition. I find it quite cool actually. OK, styling is a bit overdone, as is sadly the norm for the Germans nowadays. But design/engineering wise I think the I3 looks pretty interesting. Also predict these will be a hoot to drive (stiff chassis, RWD, lots of instant torque, light weight, BMW can make really nice controls).

Running costs should also be good, residuals are any body's guess but BMW aren't making that many so if this does not totally flop in the market, should be quite good. Not sure what BMW's policy is on batteries though (warranty, replacement cost).

What is holding me back? Range is not enough to drive from my place to France, Italy or Austria. And most importantly I can't charge near home (flat in the city center). The thing is ideal for suburbia, but for people living *in* a big city the infrastructure is not there.

Will they sell? I bet yes. IMVHO this will be *the* coming status symbol for high income earners commuters. Charge it in your garage in suburbia, drive it into town looking cool/eco-smug/trendy.

Edited by Kolbenkopp on Sunday 25th August 00:47

[DonkeyApple]

Garybee said:

Can't see me ever buying something like this. I don't buy new cars and I suspect that these will be pretty worthless as 2nd hand buys due to batteries requiring replacement.

Only if you forget that the battery won't be being replaced but recycled. The contents of the old battery are really rather valuable. That value being pretty much the value of the battery.

It's why some firms are looking at the lease idea as it allows them to retain ownership of the Lithium while repeatedly selling it at primary value.

It's an aspect that many EV journos and publications have not picked up on. Either because they just don't understand business or they are blinded to certain aspects.

It's better to own the Lithium than lease it.

Once your EV is out of manufacturer warranty then only a maniac would buy a replace my pack from them. You'd take it to one of the specialist indies who would recycle it and you'd pay the recycling cost not the replacement cost.

And with an EV having fewer moving parts it is likely to last longer than a conventional modern car.

The Lithium Battery Recycling Challenge http://www.waste-management-world.com/articles/pri...

Edited by DonkeyApple on Sunday 25th August 09:44

[McWigglebum4th]

Garybee said:

Can't see me ever buying something like this. I don't buy new cars and I suspect that these will be pretty worthless as 2nd hand buys due to batteries requiring replacement.

I suspect I will be buying something like this as everyone belives the battery needs replacing after 3 years

Also it doesn't have a battery

So its far cheaper to replace some batteries

[Garybee]

DonkeyApple said:

Garybee said:

Can't see me ever buying something like this. I don't buy new cars and I suspect that these will be pretty worthless as 2nd hand buys due to batteries requiring replacement.

Only if you forget that the battery won't be being replaced but recycled. The contents of the old battery are really rather valuable. That value being pretty much the value of the battery.

It's why some firms are looking at the lease idea as it allows them to retain ownership of the Lithium while repeatedly selling it at primary value.

It's an aspect that many EV journos and publications have not picked up on. Either because they just don't understand business or they are blinded to certain aspects.

It's better to own the Lithium than lease it.

Once your EV is out of manufacturer warranty then only a maniac would buy a replace my pack from them. You'd take it to one of the specialist indies who would recycle it and you'd pay the recycling cost not the replacement cost.

And with an EV having fewer moving parts it is likely to last longer than a conventional modern car.

The Lithium Battery Recycling Challenge http://www.waste-management-world.com/articles/pri...

Edited by DonkeyApple on Sunday 25th August 09:44

That's an interesting point. Do you know the cost of having this done at a specialist indie'? If the net cost of a battery replacement wasn't silly then I'm not averse to the idea of an electric car at all.

[Garybee]

McWigglebum4th said:

Garybee said:

Can't see me ever buying something like this. I don't buy new cars and I suspect that these will be pretty worthless as 2nd hand buys due to batteries requiring replacement.

I suspect I will be buying something like this as everyone belives the battery needs replacing after 3 years

Also it doesn't have a battery

So its far cheaper to replace some batteries

Oh dear, I bet most of your 25,000+ posts contain this type of bolshy, argumentative rubbish with regular (unsuccessful) attempts at pedantry. Please feel free to go and learn what a battery is. Then you can go back to trawling for spelling and punctuality errors in other people's posts.

That'll do, I reckon that has about the same level of unpleasantness as your reply.