RE: Could you buy a BMW i3?
Discussion
I was watching the news at around 5.30am so my concentration may not have been 100% but I'm sure they said its £26k after the discount plus £360 a month to lease the batteries? That's a very expensive way of saving the planet (let's not get into how teh electricity is generated) It sounds OK as a short-trip commuter car always supposing you have somewhere to park it, but you can buy all manner of small diesels or low emission petrol cars a whole lot cheaper. Then there's the range anxiety at the end of the week on your way home on the day when there was no charging point available and it's cold, dark and raining ......
jackpe said:
The Moose said:
So, I'd need to charge the car once on Monday at once and once on Friday (again at work) before going home for the weekend, maybe with a little top up during the week for good measure.
make the commute "free"...! 
Electricity is not free.. make the commute "free"...! and the more popular electric cars become the more expensive charging them will become as well. There is no way the government is going to loose out on loads of petrol tax revenue, electricity prices will either go up or taxing these cars will eventually become very expensive.
The only real issue I can see is that if you suddenly have to jump in the car and drive 250 miles in one go.
Ok, so you have the range extender, but I assume that due to the size of the fuel tank, it'll only last for circa 80 miles. So you have to stop every 80 miles for fuel. My Ducati was about that so I guess not the end of the world.
Ok, so you have the range extender, but I assume that due to the size of the fuel tank, it'll only last for circa 80 miles. So you have to stop every 80 miles for fuel. My Ducati was about that so I guess not the end of the world.
Wondering if this will be the replacement to the Chelsea Tractor.....
For those that do short runs, on a regular schedule where long range with no time to charge in between is not an issue.
If it has the space to take two or three kids with all of their gubbins, I recon these will start to turn up on the school runs in years to come...
For those that do short runs, on a regular schedule where long range with no time to charge in between is not an issue.
If it has the space to take two or three kids with all of their gubbins, I recon these will start to turn up on the school runs in years to come...
Yet another expensive EV crowding out a niche market with minimal demand whilst trying to portray a highbrow culture of environmental advantages while the technology, costs and whole life emissions are still not viable.
Nissan/Renault has already learnt the hard way with pure EVs with huge R+D costs for minimal sales.
Whilst BMW may have a slight edge with a (limited) range extender, the constant arrogant, saving the planet, we must embrace a new future, you just need to appreciate the technology approach surrounding these supposedly ‘green’ but expensive and immature EV technologies is painful to witness.
Cue a load discussion about the merits and ‘I would seriously consider one’, ‘it would be ideal for me on my commute’, ‘I like the idea’, ‘it’s the future’, ‘peak oil blah (..myth)’ ...... but of course, only a miniscule percentage of people will ever commit and buy one. Reality.
Nissan/Renault has already learnt the hard way with pure EVs with huge R+D costs for minimal sales.
Whilst BMW may have a slight edge with a (limited) range extender, the constant arrogant, saving the planet, we must embrace a new future, you just need to appreciate the technology approach surrounding these supposedly ‘green’ but expensive and immature EV technologies is painful to witness.
Cue a load discussion about the merits and ‘I would seriously consider one’, ‘it would be ideal for me on my commute’, ‘I like the idea’, ‘it’s the future’, ‘peak oil blah (..myth)’ ...... but of course, only a miniscule percentage of people will ever commit and buy one. Reality.
This car? No, it doesn't tempt me.
I was in Bellevue (Seattle) last week, and they have a Tesla showroom in the mall there. In it was a Tesla S. I spent about an hour in there talking with the sales people and playing with the car.
The Tesla S is stunning in so many ways. I walked in with a view of thinking, "let's point and laugh at this thing that is destined for failure", and walked out wanting one, getting rid of my 996 for it.
The elephant in the room is range - but the supercharger network should help there - and recharge time from a standard 13A outlet. 300 miles of charge would take 5 days to charge IIRC. Put it on a "supercharger" though and it's orders of magnitude less - to the point that you could refill whilst drinking a coffee... of course if everyone did that then there's a massive problem of how to distribute that much energy to the point of demand. Micro reactors? Who knows.
Put a range extender engine in it, and I'd have one tomorrow.
I was in Bellevue (Seattle) last week, and they have a Tesla showroom in the mall there. In it was a Tesla S. I spent about an hour in there talking with the sales people and playing with the car.
The Tesla S is stunning in so many ways. I walked in with a view of thinking, "let's point and laugh at this thing that is destined for failure", and walked out wanting one, getting rid of my 996 for it.
The elephant in the room is range - but the supercharger network should help there - and recharge time from a standard 13A outlet. 300 miles of charge would take 5 days to charge IIRC. Put it on a "supercharger" though and it's orders of magnitude less - to the point that you could refill whilst drinking a coffee... of course if everyone did that then there's a massive problem of how to distribute that much energy to the point of demand. Micro reactors? Who knows.
Put a range extender engine in it, and I'd have one tomorrow.
Had this had been around 8 months ago I would have got one as a company car.
It covers 90% of my typical motoring needs.
I would have then got something fun for longer journeys.
Question. If you get the range extending one, can you just keep filling up with petrol and driving until you recharge the batteries?
It covers 90% of my typical motoring needs.
I would have then got something fun for longer journeys.
Question. If you get the range extending one, can you just keep filling up with petrol and driving until you recharge the batteries?
Definite no-no.
It's very expensive. Depreciation will be an issue due battery life and replacement costs. It is not practical: those range figures are not impressive and it will be interesting to see how they deteriorate in a deep winter.
Lastly, it is only as "green" as the source of the electricity. In BMW's home market coal-fired generation is rising fast, to over 50% of output earlier this year. France is probably the only major country where this would save CO2.
It's very expensive. Depreciation will be an issue due battery life and replacement costs. It is not practical: those range figures are not impressive and it will be interesting to see how they deteriorate in a deep winter.
Lastly, it is only as "green" as the source of the electricity. In BMW's home market coal-fired generation is rising fast, to over 50% of output earlier this year. France is probably the only major country where this would save CO2.
The Moose said:
Do short stop/start journeys deplete the battery faster than long journeys? I assume so due to the acceleration/deceleration?
Faster in time, or fast in distance??Long journeys, at a high average speed will discharge the battery faster in time (because the road load is higher) but you will probably(see note) travel more miles.
Short "Stop-start" journeys will leave you with charge for a longer amount of time (because the average speed is low) but you won't travel as far in terms of miles per charge
NOTE: The "probably" bit refers to the fact that the ultimate energy consumption per mile (or per hr) is a result of "useful" energy transferred to the roadload (to make the car go along) and "wasted" energy, that is lost to heat in the process of that conversion.
For an electric car, operating re-generative braking, the total energy flux depends upon how much of that energy is transiently stored as KE in the vehicles mass. A long, steady speed drive for example sees some energy being used to accelerate the vehicle(stored in the mass as KE), and then a constant flow of energy being lost continuously to the roadload (aero drag, rolling drag etc). At the end of the journey, when the vehicle is decelerated back to zero speed, the energy stored as KE is re-captured and put back into the battery.
However, as every energy conversion has an efficiency associated with it, some of that energy is lost. As such, the speed and acceleration profile of the journey starts to become important, as a balance of energy lost to the roadload(un-avoidable) and that lost in the process of the conversion.
So, slow speed stop-start journeys don't use much energy to the roadload (because the average speed is slow) but they can loose a lot of energy in the constant accel/deccel that occurs.
Unlike ICE's operating through a multispeed gearbox, downspeeding (minimum engine rpm to reduce energy lost to friction) isn't nearly so important, as electric machines have a much wider, flatter oeprating region of high efficiency.
Jakdaw said:
miketree said:
Extend the range further by keeping a spare can of fuel in the boot!
No you can't...:-BMW said:
The Range Extender does not power the vehicle, it maintains the vehicle's battery when it reaches 18%. It also increases the range by around 75 to 93 miles.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 30th July 14:03
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