RE: Race star honed my car

RE: Race star honed my car

Wednesday 31st July 2013

Race star honed my car

How much involvement did that celebrity racing driver really have? At AMG, quite a lot



We've all scratched our chin at Sebastian Vettel's involvement in the development of 'his' edition of the Infiniti FX SUV and wondered what that actually meant in real terms. After all, the car he drives on the weekends bears so little resemblance to any road car, so what useful feedback could he actually give?

How far did Vettel's input transform the FX?
How far did Vettel's input transform the FX?
But it's a different story at AMG. It employs DTM legend Bernd Schneider on a regular basis and actually seems to squeeze every last bit of information out of the great man, as we discovered in a recent interview with him.

For a start he regularly drives the cars in race form. His DTM glory days (mostly driving Mercedes) may be over, but any team who runs one of the SLS GT3 cars can call on AMG to parachute Schneider into the hot seat to improve their race chances.

It certainly worked on the weekend, when he took victory at Spa at the wheel of an SLS run by HTP Motorsport. It also worked back in May when he won the 24-Hours of Nurburgring in a similar car run by Black Falcon.

"This is a lot of fun for me." You don't say Bernd...
"This is a lot of fun for me." You don't say Bernd...
What he learns from the track goes back into the cars, particularly the Black Series versions such as the newest SLS (driven by Chris Harris here). "I go to Nordschleife to test tyres, suspension, engines, gearbox shift, the lot," he says, before adding needlessly: "This is a lot of fun for me."

You get the impression he's there right in the middle of AMG development. He told us: "We've got the racers and we've got the comfort guys - always we are trying to find good solutions. Not compromises, but solutions." He says the comfort guys get a short shift in Black Series development, but get a bigger seat at table during the road car development, as you'd expect.

We ask him if there's any likelihood of an A-class AMG Black Series, and he says not yet. AMG has previously said the Black range will two-door only, but Schneider does drop a tantalizing hint that the CLA four-door coupeversion could break that rule. "It's getting very famous," he says.

Schneider has a long history with Mercedes
Schneider has a long history with Mercedes
Of course the most famous car-star link was Ayrton Senna and the Honda NSX. Even if the exact involvement he had in the car's development is still open to debate, his star power was such that the highly praised supercar will be forever linked to the man, something that Infinti and Vettel probably won't be. But the fact remains these F1 guys don't have the time or the skills to properly hone a road car. Lewis Hamilton has also been videoed behind the wheel of an AMG A45 in a publicity exercise, but looked a bit uncomfortable and is said to loathe driving on public roads.

Someone like Schneider is perfect - semi-retired from touring car racing, but still in full possession of his talents and blessed with an understanding of what road cars need to go fast.

Author
Discussion

pagani1

Original Poster:

683 posts

203 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
It's great that professional drivers are having so much input with top of the range cars these days-Bravo

anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
What do you mean by professional? Pretty much every chassis ever developed is done by a "professional" driver! In fact, a typical road car chassis engineer will probably have something like 10x as much "seat time" as his pure racing driver opposite number! (and a large percentage of them tend to race at the weekends too ;-)

The Wookie

13,965 posts

229 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
If you're keen to own a road car that's been carefully tuned to perfection by a touring car racer but can't stretch to an AMG model, I can suggest a lovely range of Chinese minivans that will hit the market soon... hehe

TNH

559 posts

148 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
Bit of a bold statement to make saying that F1 drivers dont have the skills to help develop a road car...

s m

23,248 posts

204 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
Nurburgring meister honed my old car........







.......Dirk Schoysmann













.......Primera P11 GT

Frances The Mute

1,816 posts

242 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
TNH said:
Bit of a bold statement to make saying that F1 drivers dont have the skills to help develop a road car...
Not really. They'll definitely need to know their way around their car in terms of developing what's right for the track but for a domestic vehicle on road? Completely different kettle of fish.

NGK210

2,964 posts

146 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
PH said:
Lewis Hamilton ... is said to loathe driving on public roads.
Apart from when he's at the wheel of his Zonda? wink

edinph

386 posts

175 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
Have you seen Vettel thrash his personal FX around a track? That thing goes!

4a4

213 posts

136 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
The Wookie said:
If you're keen to own a road car that's been carefully tuned to perfection by a touring car racer but can't stretch to an AMG model, I can suggest a lovely range of Chinese minivans that will hit the market soon... hehe
Ollie?

Haha wink

RacerMike

4,211 posts

212 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
What do you mean by professional? Pretty much every chassis ever developed is done by a "professional" driver! In fact, a typical road car chassis engineer will probably have something like 10x as much "seat time" as his pure racing driver opposite number! (and a large percentage of them tend to race at the weekends too ;-)
You're not the only one on here wink

s m said:
Nurburgring meister honed my old car........
.......Dirk Schoysmann
I'd actually like to know what car that's been developed at the 'Ring, hasn't been tuned in some way by Dirk. A legend, and one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.

ph123

1,841 posts

219 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
pagani1 said:
It's great that professional drivers are having so much input with top of the range cars these days-Bravo
Lovely enthusiastic guy - drove both Pagani R and Huayra at last year's Goodwood Festival ...


pagani1

Original Poster:

683 posts

203 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
Professional drivers like Bernd Schneider and Walter Rorhl are retained by manufacturers as they offer something different to the employed factory tester in that they have driven at 10/10ths for most of their racing careers, with respect to Mike Cross at Jaguar et al. I suppose Ayrton Senna developing the NS-X wasn't on the money either?

RacerMike

4,211 posts

212 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
pagani1 said:
....factory tester in that they have driven at 10/10ths for most of their racing careers...
Some of us also drive at 10/10ths you know! Maybe even 11/10ths wink

swilding

555 posts

251 months

Wednesday 31st July 2013
quotequote all
I was lucky enough to drive 6 laps in a black series SLS trying to hang onto Berndt at a press event in Paul Ricard. I was totally humbled by his skills! I quickly used up the little bit of talent I have and then ran out of bravery as well. Top driver and a really nice guy too.

Edited by swilding on Wednesday 31st July 20:26

Hasbeen

2,073 posts

222 months

Thursday 1st August 2013
quotequote all
I did suspension tuning on the original 327 Bathurst Holden Monaro, at the GM test track. I was driving the team managers F1 Brabham Repco at the time.

I was amazed at how quick, balanced & forgiving the things were, when the factory boys gave me some to play with. Sure I got about 3 seconds off their lap times around the test circuit, without destroying too much of the sweetness they had built into it, but the improvement was all in the 9 to 9.9 tenths of performance, where nobody, no matter how godlike, goes on the public road. The car was still a great thing to thrash on the highways & byways.

Compare that to the Ford Falcon GT HO of the day. No doubt Ford had had it's top drivers do a similar development job on those. They were quick too, but were also a nasty vicious thing, not the least forgiving, wanting to bite you if given half a chance. When I lapped one of Fords top drivers towards the end of the 500 miles race he looked totally shot, really haggard, where I on the other hand, in my forgiving Monaro, had been on a lovely Sunday thrash, without the worry of traffic cops, & felt great.

What I'm trying to say is, the fact that some hotshot has tuned the thing will sure mean it should be very quick, at racing speeds, where even god doesn't go on public roads, but it may still be a lousy drive on your favorite back road. The hotshot can only do what the basic package allows him to do.

vtgts300kw

598 posts

178 months

Thursday 1st August 2013
quotequote all
Hasbeen said:
I did suspension tuning on the original 327 Bathurst Holden Monaro, at the GM test track. I was driving the team managers F1 Brabham Repco at the time.

I was amazed at how quick, balanced & forgiving the things were, when the factory boys gave me some to play with. Sure I got about 3 seconds off their lap times around the test circuit, without destroying too much of the sweetness they had built into it, but the improvement was all in the 9 to 9.9 tenths of performance, where nobody, no matter how godlike, goes on the public road. The car was still a great thing to thrash on the highways & byways.

Compare that to the Ford Falcon GT HO of the day. No doubt Ford had had it's top drivers do a similar development job on those. They were quick too, but were also a nasty vicious thing, not the least forgiving, wanting to bite you if given half a chance. When I lapped one of Fords top drivers towards the end of the 500 miles race he looked totally shot, really haggard, where I on the other hand, in my forgiving Monaro, had been on a lovely Sunday thrash, without the worry of traffic cops, & felt great.

What I'm trying to say is, the fact that some hotshot has tuned the thing will sure mean it should be very quick, at racing speeds, where even god doesn't go on public roads, but it may still be a lousy drive on your favorite back road. The hotshot can only do what the basic package allows him to do.
See the comment Dick Johnson passed when he was driving Brocks Torana around Bathurst. It's about 6:20 in the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yrc359dm1k

DJRC

23,563 posts

237 months

Thursday 1st August 2013
quotequote all
Er...is that link correct? Im fairly certain Johnson hasnt used the insult "grape looking slut" before...no matter funny it might be smile

Debaser

6,004 posts

262 months

Thursday 1st August 2013
quotequote all
pagani1 said:
Professional drivers like Bernd Schneider and Walter Rorhl are retained by manufacturers as they offer something different to the employed factory tester in that they have driven at 10/10ths for most of their racing careers, with respect to Mike Cross at Jaguar et al. I suppose Ayrton Senna developing the NS-X wasn't on the money either?
Most development drivers spend a lot more time driving at the limit than most racing drivers.

The Moose

22,867 posts

210 months

Thursday 1st August 2013
quotequote all
vtgts300kw said:
See the comment Dick Johnson passed when he was driving Brocks Torana around Bathurst. It's about 6:20 in the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yrc359dm1k
rofl

vtgts300kw

598 posts

178 months

Thursday 1st August 2013
quotequote all
The Moose said:
rofl
Have I missed something?