Turbo or NA, which do you prefer and why?
Poll: Turbo or NA, which do you prefer and why?
Total Members Polled: 487
Discussion
PH XKR said:
How many rebuilds? How much did your 872bhp cost and how many engines did it take to get there? If you are going to suggest that putting FI to an engine designed for N/A is a cheap and reliable thing to do, I think it only fair you paint the other side too.
The LS is an epic engine, yes it can take FI but it isn't meant to on stock internals and over the years I have seen many engines requiring new rebuilds because they were on stock.
Including the original, I'm on my 4th engine but I made a series of stupid mistakes and knowledge for what works/doesn't work was a bit thin on the ground. For example, I chose an LQ9 block with a 4" stroker crank. Problem is the liners on the LQ9 are the shortest of all the LS engines so I had a piston break up whilst pulling 185mph at VMax. My current engine was £20k to build and supercharge. It's based on an LSA with CNC ported LSA heads, LSA crank and forged Mahle pistons and rods. It has a GT9 cam in it with dual springs. Anyone could do the same as I have and HP per £ I think it works out quite well. There are loads of otherwise stock LS engines making 650+ hp that's just a fact I'm afraid.The LS is an epic engine, yes it can take FI but it isn't meant to on stock internals and over the years I have seen many engines requiring new rebuilds because they were on stock.
Driven three times a year, there are a lot of documented failures and equally brushed under the carpet failures. Anyone suggesting you can just drop a suoercharger and go is being deliberately misleading.
As for Chevy, do they drop a charger onto an N/A base? No, they use completely different blocks.
As for Chevy, do they drop a charger onto an N/A base? No, they use completely different blocks.
PH XKR said:
Driven three times a year, there are a lot of documented failures and equally brushed under the carpet failures. Anyone suggesting you can just drop a suoercharger and go is being deliberately misleading.
As for Chevy, do they drop a charger onto an N/A base? No, they use completely different blocks.
With respect, you don't know what you are talking about. LSA block is the same as LS3 except for piston squirters. Casting process for heads is slightly different but that's it. My car makes a genuine 824hp and since 2011 it hasn't been rebuilt once and I used to drive it every day in summer to work and back (65 miles round trip). Now I work in London I don't get much chance but I wouldn't think twice about driving it anywhere. As I said, do some homework, these engines can make serious HP and no point getting upset because your manky old M5 cannot.As for Chevy, do they drop a charger onto an N/A base? No, they use completely different blocks.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 1st May 16:29
PH XKR said:
Is the ls9 an ls3? No. I know these engines inside out so to suggest its basically an ls3 is rubbish otherwise why not just build the zr1 with a charged ls3?
You're still talking crap. Piston squirters and if I remember correctly, 11mm vs 12mm head studs. That's it. Over the past 10 years some of us have also learned/spent quite a lot. 
PH XKR said:
Is the ls9 an ls3? No. I know these engines inside out so to suggest its basically an ls3 is rubbish otherwise why not just build the zr1 with a charged ls3?
Tell these guys then:"The LS3 block not only has larger bores than the LS2, but a strengthened casting to support more powerful 6.2L engines, including the LS9 supercharged engine of the Corvette ZR1."
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/0901gmhtp-ls1-ls6...
They would obviously appreciate your inside out and back to front knowledge on the subject.
wormus said:
Squirrelofwoe said:
Next on the list for me though is either a TVR Chim or a Monaro VXR so it will be good to experience the other side of the n/a coin.
Or a car with a supercharger?
I was lucky enough to drive a supercharged Exige a while back and that was what can only be described as 'frantic' in terms of power delivery!
You should try a Monaro/VXR8 with a supercharger or twin turbos. Now that IS the best of both worlds. 800hp with rwd is excellent fun!Or a car with a supercharger?
I was lucky enough to drive a supercharged Exige a while back and that was what can only be described as 'frantic' in terms of power delivery!
I see now, wrong word used in my post take block as including heads.
Back on topic I can compare two direct challengers...
Just swapped out of a z06 to an xkr, both similar power. Ignoring weight difference, the n/a vette felt like you had been hit in the head, tge tvs charged jag is just as rapid but feels not as strong as its a lot smoother. In part due to tge suspension and also due to a narrower flatter power. Throttle response is the same, its a shame sc isn't used as much as its best of both worlds
Back on topic I can compare two direct challengers...
Just swapped out of a z06 to an xkr, both similar power. Ignoring weight difference, the n/a vette felt like you had been hit in the head, tge tvs charged jag is just as rapid but feels not as strong as its a lot smoother. In part due to tge suspension and also due to a narrower flatter power. Throttle response is the same, its a shame sc isn't used as much as its best of both worlds
TheAngryDog said:
Wormus, still talking a lot of money to get to those power levels? £15k gets you an LS2 6.0. Then what, £6500 on the TVS2300 to get 580bhp at the fly according to monkfish. To go for more power will need what? Genuinely interested! Cheers.
LSA is $14k, couple of cheap tweaks gets you over 600 at the fly http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines...New cam (with supporting addons) - £500 = 700ish bhp
Upgraded pulleys - £500 = 770ish bhp
PH XKR said:
LSA is 14k USD what is it over here? And once you've got it, you'll need a car to put it in and the labour to do the swap...
£12k (incl vat) delivered or there abouts. Monkfish have the know how to fit it now (to an LS3 fit VXR8), not sure of cost though, couple of k probs max. Many small cars have LS swapped already anyway so the blueprints are there, MX5 for example (love a small block), might need a bonnet vent like the camaro to fit an SC LSx engine, which is £300 delivered from Aus (plus fitting).With the right mods, the LSA supports over 800 bhp with a stock bottom end, and in the 1800kg Gen-f VXR8 will run 10's on the 1/4 mile.
Got a full exhaust system with 2" headers and 3" cat back with 200 cell cats in the pipeline for around £4k to support my 1k BHP goal coming in the next few months as well. CAI was £500 delivered from Lingenfelter. I am currently nearly at 500 at the wheels with only a bolt on and a minor tune tweak (using EFILive) compared to a stock 576 BHP (manu stated)
Have seen a couple in the last few months so not preposterous at all. Was better value than refitting an LS3 that had blown in at least one of the cases. You seem to be incredibly bitter my friend, think you need to take a chill pill and relax to the max and forget your woes. Big power is never ever cheap, but it has its rewards You tell me now what engine you could fit and reliably tune to 1000bhp on a stock bottom end for £20k that beats an LS?
You tell me now what engine you could fit and reliably tune to 1000bhp on a stock bottom end for £20k that beats an LS?HappyMidget said:
Have seen a couple in the last few months so not preposterous at all. Was better value than refitting an LS3 that had blown in at least one of the cases. You seem to be incredibly bitter my friend, think you need to take a chill pill and relax to the max and forget your woes. Big power is never ever cheap, but it has its rewards You tell me now what engine you could fit and reliably tune to 1000bhp on a stock bottom end for £20k that beats an LS?
2jze You tell me now what engine you could fit and reliably tune to 1000bhp on a stock bottom end for £20k that beats an LS?RB26DETT
Both of them can, no way an LS could get to 1000bhp on anything stock.
HappyMidget said:
Have seen a couple in the last few months so not preposterous at all. Was better value than refitting an LS3 that had blown in at least one of the cases. You seem to be incredibly bitter my friend, think you need to take a chill pill and relax to the max and forget your woes. Big power is never ever cheap, but it has its rewards You tell me now what engine you could fit and reliably tune to 1000bhp on a stock bottom end for £20k that beats an LS?
Or more to the point, why bother except for the reason "because I can". At which point it becomes a down the pub bulls You tell me now what engine you could fit and reliably tune to 1000bhp on a stock bottom end for £20k that beats an LS?
t willy waving contest of my dad's harder than your dad and I can juggle 4 grand piano's with one hand. To spend £20k on top of the purchase price of a vxr8 is a bit mental. OK you can sell the old engine, but £20k isn't going to get close to having a car with the power to use daily without upgrading various other items. I have nothing against the vxr8 or ls engines, but id Rather spend £30k on an f10 M5 and tune that.
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