RE: BMW M3 (E46): You Know You Want To
Discussion
weez123 said:
Ah yes, a clip of a standing start is definitive enough for me.If a chipped 330d really was faster than an M3 then it would be such an aggressive chip with no regard to anything other than performance, even if it meant blowing up in the not too distant future.
These are getting a real bargain. I had a manual one last year in silver grey but always wanted imola.
Came with the 19s but I got some 18s to use and put the 19s on it again to sell.
Smoked lights and KW v2 coilovers with some spacers and I was happy with it. Would have loved a CSL airbox but too much cash for me.
Its a shame there are the rust issues, some I saw were getting quite bad along the sills and arches.
I think the only fault mine had that I was aware of was that one of the folding mirrors was temperamental but I think that is due to the design of them folding up and catching water in the rain.
Came with the 19s but I got some 18s to use and put the 19s on it again to sell.
Smoked lights and KW v2 coilovers with some spacers and I was happy with it. Would have loved a CSL airbox but too much cash for me.
Its a shame there are the rust issues, some I saw were getting quite bad along the sills and arches.
I think the only fault mine had that I was aware of was that one of the folding mirrors was temperamental but I think that is due to the design of them folding up and catching water in the rain.
okgo said:
HighwayStar said:
Rubbish, a friend of mine, 24, paid 14k for a mint E46, 42k miles... Insured for £700 on an Ipswich post code. Granted it's not cheap cheap but hardly astronomic for his age eh...
I'm 25, full NCB etc and its well north of a grand.Soupie69uk said:
These are getting a real bargain. I had a manual one last year in silver grey but always wanted imola.
Came with the 19s but I got some 18s to use and put the 19s on it again to sell.
Smoked lights and KW v2 coilovers with some spacers and I was happy with it. Would have loved a CSL airbox but too much cash for me.
Its a shame there are the rust issues, some I saw were getting quite bad along the sills and arches.
I think the only fault mine had that I was aware of was that one of the folding mirrors was temperamental but I think that is due to the design of them folding up and catching water in the rain.
I'm curious, presumably the 18's made as much of a difference then as you read about? Less tramlining, felt more nimble/less heavy on the 18's?Came with the 19s but I got some 18s to use and put the 19s on it again to sell.
Smoked lights and KW v2 coilovers with some spacers and I was happy with it. Would have loved a CSL airbox but too much cash for me.
Its a shame there are the rust issues, some I saw were getting quite bad along the sills and arches.
I think the only fault mine had that I was aware of was that one of the folding mirrors was temperamental but I think that is due to the design of them folding up and catching water in the rain.
Naddy786 said:
Patrick Bateman said:
weez123 said:
Its not the price of the car its the running costs(if your scrapping the barrel at 6k can you run it?),better to get a 330i ,ive seen quicker 330d chipped up.
Yeah, if an M3 driver doesn't know what a gearbox is for.I now own a manual e46 330i which is a beautiful engine, so smooth and willing to rev, but will also pull cleanly from virtually tickover. Mine's a touring, and is about all the car I'll ever need.
But you can guess that I have a significant want for an e46 M3 (I consider it an inevitability - full house of e46 ownership). I consider the acceleration to be much like the 330i except where my M54B30 starts to give up for another gear, the S54 enters another world altogether...
Looking forward to the M-diff as well.
Always had a hankering for one, but a lot seem to be driven by utter chimps, you know, geezers in puffer jackets, leant forward with their claw drapped across the wheel.
Plus, the cab looks a bit too showy for me, four seater cabs dont really work somehow, my problem is I cant quite run to a Z4M, so may go for a Z4 3.0, the M3 is in the middle and I dont really like the cab and I want an open car, think the 3.0 Si convertible will be the next best thing, probably not that far off an M3 cab performance wise, 265 bhp/1385 kilos vs 343 bhp/1650 kilos, about 2 seconds slower to 100.
Plus, the cab looks a bit too showy for me, four seater cabs dont really work somehow, my problem is I cant quite run to a Z4M, so may go for a Z4 3.0, the M3 is in the middle and I dont really like the cab and I want an open car, think the 3.0 Si convertible will be the next best thing, probably not that far off an M3 cab performance wise, 265 bhp/1385 kilos vs 343 bhp/1650 kilos, about 2 seconds slower to 100.
weez123 said:
Its not the price of the car its the running costs(if your scrapping the barrel at 6k can you run it?),better to get a 330i ,ive seen quicker 330d chipped up.
a 330d (chipped or not) is a 330d. An M3 is an M3. Typical "I like driving, I've got a diesel and it's as fast as an M3" If power figures are all that you think counts then please hand in your PH card as you leave. The M in front of the 3 stands for a LOT more than just a power figure. It's nuggets like these that I love to leave for dead on some twisty bits of road.Patrick Bateman said:
Ah yes, a clip of a standing start is definitive enough for me.
If a chipped 330d really was faster than an M3 then it would be such an aggressive chip with no regard to anything other than performance, even if it meant blowing up in the not too distant future.
Agreed. My daily is a 330d and whilst it is fairly swift and relaxed it's not really fit to be mentioned in the same breath as an M3 as a performance car. Mapped straight line performance may be similar, but the sloppy diff and suspension get found out pretty quick. To upgrade all that, add in the remap and EGR delete etc needed, plus the base costs of a decent 330d, you could have a lovely M3 CS, and still have a better car into the bargain.If a chipped 330d really was faster than an M3 then it would be such an aggressive chip with no regard to anything other than performance, even if it meant blowing up in the not too distant future.
The 330d is a lovely car (for a diesel), but it's more of an Autobahn cruiser than a tool to take the 'Ring apart (sounds painful...).
acme said:
I'm curious, presumably the 18's made as much of a difference then as you read about? Less tramlining, felt more nimble/less heavy on the 18's?
Maybe a tiny bit less tramlining and softer ride but nothing major. I did it mainly because I preferred the wheels as they had a bit of dish and the 19s are a bit bling for me. I do like the 19s but just prefer the 18s. I am sure the 18s are just as heavy as the 19s (or heavier) when swapping the wheels.Captainawesome said:
weez123 said:
Its not the price of the car its the running costs(if your scrapping the barrel at 6k can you run it?),better to get a 330i ,ive seen quicker 330d chipped up.
a 330d (chipped or not) is a 330d. An M3 is an M3. Typical "I like driving, I've got a diesel and it's as fast as an M3" If power figures are all that you think counts then please hand in your PH card as you leave. The M in front of the 3 stands for a LOT more than just a power figure. It's nuggets like these that I love to leave for dead on some twisty bits of road.I hate the "For a diesel" thing and the way owners make out their car is the plucky under dog that punches above its weight, I am fully aware a BMW 320D is not far off as fast as my 944 but I dont care. Real petrolheads do not judge every car solely by bhp, "torques", "toys", montly lease figure, bloody mpg, 0-60 and how much envy it induces in the neighbours, they realise it is a much more complex equation.
Incredible VFM at this end of the market, if you can look past the wear and tear.
As an aside I don't buy the 330 comparison at all. I bought one hoping for a somewhat of a semi-performance car bargain, mostly based on PH reviews, but I got that frustrated with the pathetic performance and lack of character that I sold it within three months. Fast forward a few months and I have an M3 for the same duties. It is worth remembering that the M3 isn't endowed with high performance by modern standards but is still quick enough to be entertaining.
The running costs are very low in my opinion, there are plenty of knowledgeable independents if you wish to go that route and also online retailers with low part prices: for example genuine ATE front discs and pads are available for £200 when only five years ago this would have at least £500. 30MPG is possible at 80MPH on a motorway run, and 25 average on spirited drives. It's also worth noting there are a lot of knowledgeable and helpful owners out there.
The image of course has always been so-so and probably more so at the moment whilst they are in the trough of the depreciation curve, however they are a beautiful design (I think they make the E36 look like a cheap cardboard model!) and are sure to appreciate in time. There is at present a gulf between the high mileage cars and low mileage cars which change hands for ~£16k, so this may suggest a shift in perception is already happening.
As an aside I don't buy the 330 comparison at all. I bought one hoping for a somewhat of a semi-performance car bargain, mostly based on PH reviews, but I got that frustrated with the pathetic performance and lack of character that I sold it within three months. Fast forward a few months and I have an M3 for the same duties. It is worth remembering that the M3 isn't endowed with high performance by modern standards but is still quick enough to be entertaining.
The running costs are very low in my opinion, there are plenty of knowledgeable independents if you wish to go that route and also online retailers with low part prices: for example genuine ATE front discs and pads are available for £200 when only five years ago this would have at least £500. 30MPG is possible at 80MPH on a motorway run, and 25 average on spirited drives. It's also worth noting there are a lot of knowledgeable and helpful owners out there.
The image of course has always been so-so and probably more so at the moment whilst they are in the trough of the depreciation curve, however they are a beautiful design (I think they make the E36 look like a cheap cardboard model!) and are sure to appreciate in time. There is at present a gulf between the high mileage cars and low mileage cars which change hands for ~£16k, so this may suggest a shift in perception is already happening.
Soupie69uk said:
Maybe a tiny bit less tramlining and softer ride but nothing major. I did it mainly because I preferred the wheels as they had a bit of dish and the 19s are a bit bling for me. I do like the 19s but just prefer the 18s. I am sure the 18s are just as heavy as the 19s (or heavier) when swapping the wheels.
Cheers soupie. You often hear the 18's are 'better', and I've done so since Evo was testing them back in the day, but you rarely actually hear from real owners.
Patrick Bateman said:
weez123 said:
Ah yes, a clip of a standing start is definitive enough for me.If a chipped 330d really was faster than an M3 then it would be such an aggressive chip with no regard to anything other than performance, even if it meant blowing up in the not too distant future.
Besides, it's a youtube clip of unknown origin and hardly evidence of anything.
Horrible colour BTW.
F-Stop Junkie said:
Underrated CS? Overated CS surely?
Compared the a regular M3 on 19s, the only differences are:
CSL design wheels (the width and offsets are same as the regular 19s, and different to the CSL at the front)
Alcanta on wheel and gear knob
Brackets to move the front calipers out slightly (Still the same pads and caliper) with slightly bigger disc but still not upto snuff as standard
M-track mode on the DSC (Can be enabled on 2004 cars onward)
That leaves, to my mind anyway, the only useful addition - a quicker steering rack. People arn't retrofitting them yet, but it's not the biggest improvement you can make on the car.
However, the number of these between £6k-£8k is amazing. So much performance for so little money. The only other concern is anything older than 10 years is outside the goodwill period for boot floor repairs, so factor in another grand to get that fixed if needed.
Hardly overated as its a better car than a stock M3 so its going to attract a lot of praise. Not worth the extra money is a different argument...Compared the a regular M3 on 19s, the only differences are:
CSL design wheels (the width and offsets are same as the regular 19s, and different to the CSL at the front)
Alcanta on wheel and gear knob
Brackets to move the front calipers out slightly (Still the same pads and caliper) with slightly bigger disc but still not upto snuff as standard
M-track mode on the DSC (Can be enabled on 2004 cars onward)
That leaves, to my mind anyway, the only useful addition - a quicker steering rack. People arn't retrofitting them yet, but it's not the biggest improvement you can make on the car.
However, the number of these between £6k-£8k is amazing. So much performance for so little money. The only other concern is anything older than 10 years is outside the goodwill period for boot floor repairs, so factor in another grand to get that fixed if needed.
I've recently bought a manual CS and from my point of view the benefits were:
Looks better with the CSL wheels. The only difference is that the fronts are 0.5" narrower otherwise they are identical to CSL rims. Yes you could add these on after at a cost of nearly £2k!
Sharper steering - this made a big difference to me on test drive, felt so much better.
Stops better - admittedly the brakes aren't great for long term heavy use but are more than adequate for fast road due to the bigger discs.
Knowing you've got a car a bit more special than a regular M3.
For me, totally worth the extra cash and I'm absolutely loving it.
Krikkit said:
Horrible colour, but what a cracking car! Hope to get my hands on one in the next few years, how are they from a home spanner-jockey POV? Presumably not too technical.
Have a 3 series and had a Z3M... Pretty standard stuff maintenance wise, just need a 7mm hex socket for the brake callipers, otherwise I've done a load of work on them and I'm not the greatest of spanner monkeys.Naddy786 said:
Patrick Bateman said:
weez123 said:
Its not the price of the car its the running costs(if your scrapping the barrel at 6k can you run it?),better to get a 330i ,ive seen quicker 330d chipped up.
Yeah, if an M3 driver doesn't know what a gearbox is for.I have a 330d on Eibachs spring with Koni FSD dampers... It's a good car, but not an M3. If I wasn't after an estate I'd be seriously keen!
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