Hybrids - its a tax thing not an mpg thing isn't it?
Discussion
Hi
Im curious
What is the point of hybrid cars for a private user?
I ask as most magazines test them but generally dont give much away with respect to their fuel consumption which obviously has me smelling a rat
CAR recently put a new Lexus hybrid back to back with a 320d and didnt mention fuel costs at all but did spend quite a lot of typo on tax for company users, which is a shame as Id dearly love to know how they compare in the real world for me (not a business user)
Comments??
My Prius is very cheap to run. £10 a year in VED, £95/£200 services from excellent dealers, solid 56-57mpg average (over 30,000 miles) and no faults. It is also very smooth, refined, spacious and packed with toys. I don't think I would buy a new one but at three years old they make an excellent private buy.
Look on real world databases like spritmonitor, fuelly, honestjohn for an indication of actual mpg. My experience is that most people and especially journalists like to denigrate the economy of hybrids while making over-inflated mpg claims for diesels. Diesel autos, in particular, are pretty appalling for economy (with the noble exception of the latest BMW 320d efficient dynamics which only about 5mpg less economical than the latest Prius - still sound like a f
king tractor though).
Look on real world databases like spritmonitor, fuelly, honestjohn for an indication of actual mpg. My experience is that most people and especially journalists like to denigrate the economy of hybrids while making over-inflated mpg claims for diesels. Diesel autos, in particular, are pretty appalling for economy (with the noble exception of the latest BMW 320d efficient dynamics which only about 5mpg less economical than the latest Prius - still sound like a f
king tractor though).Edited by AnotherClarkey on Saturday 17th August 23:13
Edited by AnotherClarkey on Saturday 17th August 23:15
Never mind Prius
What about diesel electric hybrids like the DS5 (why doesnt it have hydro suspension)?
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/what-hybrid-car-/c...
or petrol/ compressed gas hybrids like this C3
http://blog.caranddriver.com/citroen-debuts-oddly-...
What about diesel electric hybrids like the DS5 (why doesnt it have hydro suspension)?
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/what-hybrid-car-/c...
or petrol/ compressed gas hybrids like this C3
http://blog.caranddriver.com/citroen-debuts-oddly-...
Our Merc is more fuel efficient than its petrol/diesel equivalents and the inline electric motor gives a nice performance boost too (sometimes runs at the same time as the diesel engine).
Good for silently mowing down pedestrians in supermarket carparks too.
No idea if it is more tax efficient?
Good for silently mowing down pedestrians in supermarket carparks too.
No idea if it is more tax efficient?
LooneyTunes said:
Our Merc is more fuel efficient than its petrol/diesel equivalents
This is a bug bear of mine. We don't get quoted figures for efficiency on car engines only economy, they are not the same thing. Efficiency is work out for effort in. The 27,000 litre 2 stroke engines they put in container ships are very efficient at converting fuel into work but have a thirst like an Aussie sheep shearer. Willy Nilly said:
LooneyTunes said:
Our Merc is more fuel efficient than its petrol/diesel equivalents
This is a bug bear of mine. We don't get quoted figures for efficiency on car engines only economy, they are not the same thing. Efficiency is work out for effort in. The 27,000 litre 2 stroke engines they put in container ships are very efficient at converting fuel into work but have a thirst like an Aussie sheep shearer. Out of curiosity, how would you define "economy"?
LooneyTunes said:
Our Merc is more fuel efficient than its petrol/diesel equivalents and the inline electric motor gives a nice performance boost too (sometimes runs at the same time as the diesel engine).
Good for silently mowing down pedestrians in supermarket carparks too.
No idea if it is more tax efficient?
What Merc is that?Good for silently mowing down pedestrians in supermarket carparks too.
No idea if it is more tax efficient?
nbetts said:
surveyor said:
The people I know who run Prius all do it as they cost sod all on Company Car tax...
I thought they were 10% BIK?Electric cars and Plug-in Hybrids are 0% BIK I think?
I'll likely buy my PiP once the lease is up and run it as our family car - it's a hugely impressive car and makes a really big difference to our family budget.
It's an mpg thing, too for me. As a combination it's unbeatable in my particular circumstances.
Edited by Bonefish Blues on Sunday 18th August 11:00
saaby93 said:
Never mind Prius
What about diesel electric hybrids like the DS5 (why doesnt it have hydro suspension)?
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/what-hybrid-car-/c...
or petrol/ compressed gas hybrids like this C3
http://blog.caranddriver.com/citroen-debuts-oddly-...
I would like to have a go in a DS5 hybrid. They seem to average about 45mpg which I think is quite decent for a fairly hefty 200hp car with four wheel drive.What about diesel electric hybrids like the DS5 (why doesnt it have hydro suspension)?
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/what-hybrid-car-/c...
or petrol/ compressed gas hybrids like this C3
http://blog.caranddriver.com/citroen-debuts-oddly-...
The air / hydraulic system would seem very lossy on the face of it but if they can make it cheaply enough it might be interesting.
AnotherClarkey said:
I would like to have a go in a DS5 hybrid. They seem to average about 45mpg which I think is quite decent for a fairly hefty 200hp car with four wheel drive.
I did, it drove really quite oddly in that the energy recovery was so aggressive that the car almost stopped on its nose when you lifted off. It was really disconcerting and I couldn't get on with it at all.saaby93 said:
LooneyTunes said:
Our Merc is more fuel efficient than its petrol/diesel equivalents and the inline electric motor gives a nice performance boost too (sometimes runs at the same time as the diesel engine).
Good for silently mowing down pedestrians in supermarket carparks too.
No idea if it is more tax efficient?
What Merc is that?Good for silently mowing down pedestrians in supermarket carparks too.
No idea if it is more tax efficient?
Bonefish Blues said:
AnotherClarkey said:
I would like to have a go in a DS5 hybrid. They seem to average about 45mpg which I think is quite decent for a fairly hefty 200hp car with four wheel drive.
I did, it drove really quite oddly in that the energy recovery was so aggressive that the car almost stopped on its nose when you lifted off. It was really disconcerting and I couldn't get on with it at all.AnotherClarkey said:
Bonefish Blues said:
AnotherClarkey said:
I would like to have a go in a DS5 hybrid. They seem to average about 45mpg which I think is quite decent for a fairly hefty 200hp car with four wheel drive.
I did, it drove really quite oddly in that the energy recovery was so aggressive that the car almost stopped on its nose when you lifted off. It was really disconcerting and I couldn't get on with it at all.I can see instances of drama on the open road with other motorists not realising the speed of deceleration in the absence of brake lights. The Ampera has a similar (switchable) function.
I'm sure that in time I'd get used to it, but that's my overriding memory of the car.
It's a con, no more, no less.
What's the point of having an internal combustion engine to drive an alternator to generate electricity locally for the electric motors? It's patently obvious that this is never going to produce huge increases in mpg. What does this really save in an environmentally caring save the world sort of way?
What's the point in having huge heavy LiIon batteries that are very environmentally unfriendly to make in the first place and to dispose of at end of life and then charging the car up using electricty generated miles and miles away from burning gas, oil, coal or whatever? What does this really save in an environmentally caring save the world sort of way?
In case people haven't noticed but, in the UK, we have a real problem in meeting electricity demand in future years due to under capacity in the generating industry - why anyone would want to put further load on this system is beyond my comprehension! What happens to the price when a commodity becomes short in supply?
As for taxation. Wake up people, as soon as anything becomes popular the tax goes up, particularly if a large proportion of the populace move to it to escape tax on the current system. Do you think the government can make do with less tax as time goes by? It is a short term gain at most.
It's a con, no more, no less.
What's the point of having an internal combustion engine to drive an alternator to generate electricity locally for the electric motors? It's patently obvious that this is never going to produce huge increases in mpg. What does this really save in an environmentally caring save the world sort of way?
What's the point in having huge heavy LiIon batteries that are very environmentally unfriendly to make in the first place and to dispose of at end of life and then charging the car up using electricty generated miles and miles away from burning gas, oil, coal or whatever? What does this really save in an environmentally caring save the world sort of way?
In case people haven't noticed but, in the UK, we have a real problem in meeting electricity demand in future years due to under capacity in the generating industry - why anyone would want to put further load on this system is beyond my comprehension! What happens to the price when a commodity becomes short in supply?
As for taxation. Wake up people, as soon as anything becomes popular the tax goes up, particularly if a large proportion of the populace move to it to escape tax on the current system. Do you think the government can make do with less tax as time goes by? It is a short term gain at most.
It's a con, no more, no less.
Garvin said:
It's a con, no more, no less.
What's the point of having an internal combustion engine to drive an alternator to generate electricity locally for the electric motors? It's patently obvious that this is never going to produce huge increases in mpg. What does this really save in an environmentally caring save the world sort of way?
What's the point in having huge heavy LiIon batteries that are very environmentally unfriendly to make in the first place and to dispose of at end of life and then charging the car up using electricty generated miles and miles away from burning gas, oil, coal or whatever? What does this really save in an environmentally caring save the world sort of way?
In case people haven't noticed but, in the UK, we have a real problem in meeting electricity demand in future years due to under capacity in the generating industry - why anyone would want to put further load on this system is beyond my comprehension! What happens to the price when a commodity becomes short in supply?
As for taxation. Wake up people, as soon as anything becomes popular the tax goes up, particularly if a large proportion of the populace move to it to escape tax on the current system. Do you think the government can make do with less tax as time goes by? It is a short term gain at most.
It's a con, no more, no less.
You seem a little confused.What's the point of having an internal combustion engine to drive an alternator to generate electricity locally for the electric motors? It's patently obvious that this is never going to produce huge increases in mpg. What does this really save in an environmentally caring save the world sort of way?
What's the point in having huge heavy LiIon batteries that are very environmentally unfriendly to make in the first place and to dispose of at end of life and then charging the car up using electricty generated miles and miles away from burning gas, oil, coal or whatever? What does this really save in an environmentally caring save the world sort of way?
In case people haven't noticed but, in the UK, we have a real problem in meeting electricity demand in future years due to under capacity in the generating industry - why anyone would want to put further load on this system is beyond my comprehension! What happens to the price when a commodity becomes short in supply?
As for taxation. Wake up people, as soon as anything becomes popular the tax goes up, particularly if a large proportion of the populace move to it to escape tax on the current system. Do you think the government can make do with less tax as time goes by? It is a short term gain at most.
It's a con, no more, no less.
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