RE: Porsche 911 Turbo S (991): Review

[g4ry13]

I remember a few years back the new Turbo was a little over £100k, seems like they've increased the price a lot more than inflation. Obviously £30k is chump change to those looking at buying one of these, the only problem is it puts it in a different market.

[BlackPrince]

Carl_Docklands said:

It takes great skill to rag a Turbo with the electronics turned off, watch this guy, he almost comes unstuck at around 2minutes 30 and buries it into the Armco, that aside, I have not see anyone abuse a Turbo harder on track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1WQq4OyuBE

After watching the video, can you still say that the Turbo is "un-involving"? No, it is as involving as your driving skills allow. For that driver, it must be one of the worlds great driving experiences.

But couldn't you say that about any car though - that it is as involving [or not] as your driving skills allow? My daily is the automotive-Valium known as the Lexus RX350 and its involving too when you're absolutely caning it, but not the rest of the time. I'm of course not comparing one of the great supercars of our time with a rather boring 4x4 but I think the analogy still stands.

Perhaps this is a silly comparison now that the GT3 is PDK only, but for example a last-gen GT3 RS 4.0 will almost certainly be more involving: the noise, the manual gearbox, RWD, etc. I'd argue the new GT3 is probably more involving also (and of course I've driven neither, so my opinion is just based on conjecture)

That being said, sometimes its fun just being a passenger and feeling like one is on a roller coaster, and the Turbo certainly offers that in spades compared to something like a GT3 where there isn't the security of AWD.

Edited by BlackPrince on Saturday 24th August 14:35

[OggyDJ]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Sounds like you have a great job.....Valet parking assistant ??

Of course, a McLaren MP4 12C is no match for your Boxster

[Kronstein]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[BlackPrince]

OggyDJ said:

Sounds like you have a great job.....Valet parking assistant ??

Of course, a McLaren MP4 12C is no match for your Boxster

Classism is so 2006 mate [just like your 911 ]

[OggyDJ]

BlackPrince said:

OggyDJ said:

Sounds like you have a great job.....Valet parking assistant ??

Of course, a McLaren MP4 12C is no match for your Boxster

Classism is so 2006 mate [just like your 911 ]

2006 was a great year (because it was the year my daughter was born) :-))

Having owned two Boxsters, I know them to be fantastic cars !

With respect, you don't get my post at all.

It grates with me how some people spend their entire life on line slagging anything which is not the type of car they happen to own. Just gets very very tedious after a while... Anyway, as you were, 911 Turbos are crap and obviously so are majority of other so called super cars :-)

[g7jhp]

Why would you get a 911 turbo.

- Ability to get from A to B quickly in all weathers (most impressive in the wet)
- Everyday usability - easy to live with in traffic and still usable when you get the opportunity
- Compact and reasonably low profile (for a Supercar)
- 29mpng v performance
- It'll do the autobahn and the twisties if required

All the "it's not a GT3" comments are great, but in the real world the 911 turbo is a great car.

[Wills2]

This will be superb, if I had 140k for a daily car it would be this.

[DT398]

Kronstein said:

Good find.

Edit: I wonder if Porsche allow comparison tests between 3s and Turbo - I've never seen one - you'd think an obvious test... Don't forget manufacturer restrictions on what journos can and cant' do etc...

Edited by Kronstein on Saturday 24th August 16:49

I think I have seen such a review for the 997 that compared the gt3 and the turbo ( or it might have been the gt2 and the turbo S?). Can't remember much about it but the conclusion was that they were both great in different ways. Or something like that.

I have never had any interest whatsoever in a gt3 but love the turbos and I'm sure I'll love this one (until the novelty wears off and something else comes up)

What's annoying about some of the responses here is that they seem to imply those that buy the GT cars are somehow making better use of their money than those that waste it on a turbo. Both camps buy the cars because they think that the model they buy is the best use of their money and that's it. For me, the turbo has more to offer more of the time as its such a brilliant all rounder. Yes the C4S will do pretty much the same thing but.......not quite.

[Sierra Mike]

nickfrog said:

v8matt said:

I strongly suspect that most of the people moaning on here about 997/1 Turbos and how they're so dull and boring, and bhing they they don't want to own one have:

a) never owned one
b) never driven one
c) never been driven in one

I agree with you. It's also mainly people who couldn't realistically afford to own / run a car of that price too (otherwise they would, if they're into cars).

I was lucky to do a Ring trip alongside a well sorted 997T and I got a few pax laps. It is so capable and balanced there for such a heavy car, it's quite incredible, and very boring as it may be for some lucky sods, this is definitely not the first thought that comes to mind to the average petrol head or track regular.

Having said that, I also had a lot of fun driving the Suzuki Swift Stage 2 from R4R. It was just a different kind of fun.

[rob1234]

Pistonheads said:

...the Turbo S monsters the 'ring in 7min 24sec. It'll do 7min 27sec on conventional fast road tyres. Both are faster than Walter Rohrl in a Carrera GT.

Amazing.

[R1gtr]

I would have one in a heartbeat if I won the lottery and money was no object. However Porsche have not moved with the times, the GTR changed the goalposts and Porsche are still trying to catch up.

The whole point of this car is to be a point to point missile, the GTR does that with enough left over for a BMW 1M and a Exige too.

People moan about the GTR's interior, imagine if the GTR was 140k or imagine how st a 70k Porsche Turbo would be.

[MyCC]

Boys and Girls I think we find ourselves at a threshold where the current pursuit of lap times and ever increasing power is seemingly dialing out the driver and making his/her inputs secondary. Consequently there is a rise in interest in normally aspirated, manual, non-ESP (etc) cars from 10 years ago or more simply because they are considered more fun.

Yes of course an extremely fast car (as is the case here) will put a smile on your face with its sheer outright speed but how long will that last? For real long-lasting driver enjoyment, you need involvement and the sense of satisfaction when mastering the drive ideally unaided/unassisted from driver aids.

I think the debate we are having on here is more about whether you want to cover ground as quickly as possible with the minimum of fuss or whether you want something that challenges you as a driver. For each of us, we will have different priorities on this.

Best regards,

MyCC.

[PunterCam]

toppstuff said:

A very , very impressive car.

Clearly an engineering marvel.

It must be said though ( and I am sure Porsche are sick of hearing this) but Nissan have raised the bar so high back in 2008 with the GT-R that you still have to ask yourself how Porsche manage to charge 2X as much as Nissan do to get a similar result. Torque vectoring, 4WD, a stack of short double clutch gears and some fat turbos'. Nissan did this in 2008 at 50% of the price.

Now the new 991 certainly betters the GT-R (which is pretty old now) but it does put into perspective what a great achievement Mizuno-san pulled off with the original GT-R.

The GT-R is not the success in the Uk that it is in markets like the US ( we seem prejudice against the big Datsun here ) but it is the elephant in the room IMO when considering this type of car. I think the GT-R forced Porsche to raise their game and this is the rather lovely result.

Well done Porsche.

I wonder what is next to come?

I think the exact opposite of most of this...

Clearly the price of the Nissan is nonsense - surely it's not making any money for Nissan, because it doesn't need to. They make money from everything else. Porsche make (mostly) sports cars. The 911 costs what it costs, and they have to make it work financially.

The GTR was no doubt impressive, but I certainly don't view it positively. It hasn't made companies "raise their game" - it's made sports car companies make their cars much faster. It has manufacturers tripping over themselves, fighting for the next lap record (who cares), and when something like the GT86 comes along, manufacturers have to sell driver interaction as a gimmick, as if it needs justification.

The direction the GTR has pointed sports cars in is disappointing. Of course, Porsche and Ferrari had to match the pace of the GTR - being as fast as your rival is obviously a requirement of any sports car - but it's a sad direction to have gone in. Manual gearboxes are gone from virtually all sports cars now (idiotic), and ultimate pace, through a combination of big power boosts, those automatic gearboxes and fancy electronics has taken centre stage.

This Porsche, along with every 991 so far, leaves me completely and utterly cold. I think Porsche have to be very very careful...

[DT398]

PunterCam said:

The 911 costs what it costs, and they have to make it work financially.

As Cmoose, said, this is factually incorrect

PunterCam said:

The direction the GTR has pointed sports cars in is disappointing.

For you, maybe.

PunterCam said:

This Porsche, along with every 991 so far, leaves me completely and utterly cold. I think Porsche have to be very very careful...

Careful about what? Losing you as a customer? They seem to be going from strength to strength and it will be no different with the 991. They have a solid, profitable and well diversified range of exceptionally good cars now and the 911 is only a small part of that. People will buy them.

[green-blood]

I hope loads of them are bought. Mothballed and porsche serviced. I also hope the magazines and websites keep harping on about the feel of the gt3 so that the cult goes on (fab car but let it go) Then maybe in 15 years I can buy a second hand turbo 991 drive/pilot it everyday in all weather on all roads whilst all the gt3s are in garages undriveable incase they hit 6 figure mileages and ruin their residuals..... :-)

[green-blood]

.

Edited by green-blood on Sunday 25th August 11:52

[DT398]

MyCC said:

Boys and Girls I think we find ourselves at a threshold where the current pursuit of lap times and ever increasing power is seemingly dialing out the driver and making his/her inputs secondary. Consequently there is a rise in interest in normally aspirated, manual, non-ESP (etc) cars from 10 years ago or more simply because they are considered more fun.

Yes of course an extremely fast car (as is the case here) will put a smile on your face with its sheer outright speed but how long will that last? For real long-lasting driver enjoyment, you need involvement and the sense of satisfaction when mastering the drive ideally unaided/unassisted from driver aids.

I think the debate we are having on here is more about whether you want to cover ground as quickly as possible with the minimum of fuss or whether you want something that challenges you as a driver. For each of us, we will have different priorities on this.

Best regards,

MyCC.

You already wrote that once.

[Wills2]

PunterCam said:

This Porsche, along with every 991 so far, leaves me completely and utterly cold. I think Porsche have to be very very careful...

Why do they have to be careful? They are selling loads of cars and keep increasing their customer base the world loves the Cayenne and Panamera and the new range of sports cars (981/991) have been raved about.

They are going from strength to strength.

[goldblum]

You can get 350 bhp/ton considerably cheaper.