RE: Zenos Project E10 - exclusive
Discussion
The 2 seater 'play' car market is very well catered for, what's going to differentiate Zenos from the others?
With £30k burning a hole in my pocket I could go out and buy a Lotus, Ginetta or Caterham - if I were prepared to look at second-hand, I'd have an even wider choice. I've had 2 Lotuses and could see myself in a Ginetta G40 at some point so I guess I'm probably the target market - what would tempt me into a Zenos?
I do like the look of this project, and the chassis looks interesting, but I'm yet to be convinced it's different enough to the competition.
With £30k burning a hole in my pocket I could go out and buy a Lotus, Ginetta or Caterham - if I were prepared to look at second-hand, I'd have an even wider choice. I've had 2 Lotuses and could see myself in a Ginetta G40 at some point so I guess I'm probably the target market - what would tempt me into a Zenos?
I do like the look of this project, and the chassis looks interesting, but I'm yet to be convinced it's different enough to the competition.
Mark Benson said:
The 2 seater 'play' car market is very well catered for, what's going to differentiate Zenos from the others?
With £30k burning a hole in my pocket I could go out and buy a Lotus, Ginetta or Caterham - if I were prepared to look at second-hand, I'd have an even wider choice. I've had 2 Lotuses and could see myself in a Ginetta G40 at some point so I guess I'm probably the target market - what would tempt me into a Zenos?
I do like the look of this project, and the chassis looks interesting, but I'm yet to be convinced it's different enough to the competition.
A reasonable question to ask. I'd also like to know their official reply.With £30k burning a hole in my pocket I could go out and buy a Lotus, Ginetta or Caterham - if I were prepared to look at second-hand, I'd have an even wider choice. I've had 2 Lotuses and could see myself in a Ginetta G40 at some point so I guess I'm probably the target market - what would tempt me into a Zenos?
I do like the look of this project, and the chassis looks interesting, but I'm yet to be convinced it's different enough to the competition.
Though I'd speculate that their competition is only against other mid-engine track cars. From my experience people own a particular engine configuration track car as an active choice. Some prefer front engine and others mid-engine. It's just what some prefer, rather than one being better than the other.
Furthermore, I wonder if some buyers will specifically want an aluminium car rather than a steel tubular one. Just a thought. If that is the case then the key competitor is the Lotus 2-eleven, which is no longer made. Second-hand values of the 2-eleven remain high. Will the Zenos fill that gap? Choice is no bad thing, so good luck to them.
May I start by saying I know very little, but I drive a lot on track, and enjoy trying to apply good Roadcraft on the road, so an enthusiast driver.
I think that for people of my capabilities there is much more joy to be extracted from the act of driving in a front engined rear drive car, two examples being the Caterham 7 and the Porsche 944/968, if your a young hot shoe racer then a proper mid engined car is probably faster, but none of these front wheel drive power train to the rear axle are mid engined cars in my view, they pretty much rear engined, and have the disadvantage of generally having quite a tall engine position as well.
The 7/944 arrangement allows a driver with modest skill to experience the joy of being able just "chuck" the chassis into a corner with the knowledge and confidence that pretty much whatever it does can be easily "collected up" at the next stage of the corner, and that ( for me ) is the joy of the layout. I've driven quite a number of transverse rear engined cars, and cannot argue that they are not competent, but they need to be driven in a far less exuberant style, which I think is less fun ?
I wish Mr. Ansar Ali every luck with the project, but wish that the engine had been in the front !
I think that for people of my capabilities there is much more joy to be extracted from the act of driving in a front engined rear drive car, two examples being the Caterham 7 and the Porsche 944/968, if your a young hot shoe racer then a proper mid engined car is probably faster, but none of these front wheel drive power train to the rear axle are mid engined cars in my view, they pretty much rear engined, and have the disadvantage of generally having quite a tall engine position as well.
The 7/944 arrangement allows a driver with modest skill to experience the joy of being able just "chuck" the chassis into a corner with the knowledge and confidence that pretty much whatever it does can be easily "collected up" at the next stage of the corner, and that ( for me ) is the joy of the layout. I've driven quite a number of transverse rear engined cars, and cannot argue that they are not competent, but they need to be driven in a far less exuberant style, which I think is less fun ?
I wish Mr. Ansar Ali every luck with the project, but wish that the engine had been in the front !
ravon said:
there is much more joy to be extracted from the act of driving in a front engined rear drive car, two examples being the Caterham 7 and the Porsche 944/968. The 7/944 arrangement allows a driver with modest skill to experience the joy of being able just "chuck" the chassis into a corner with the knowledge and confidence that pretty much whatever it does can be easily "collected up" at the next stage of the corner, and that ( for me ) is the joy of the layout. I've driven quite a number of transverse rear engined cars, and cannot argue that they are not competent, but they need to be driven in a far less exuberant style, which I think is less fun?
I wish Mr. Ansar Ali every luck with the project, but wish that the engine had been in the front !
This is what Ginetta are there for. From what I have heard, they're well built, mechanically very dependable, ride and handle very nicely but are accessible to the everyman rather than would-be Lewis Hamiltons.I wish Mr. Ansar Ali every luck with the project, but wish that the engine had been in the front !
Zenos said:
Hi Parsot,
You have described the ambitions of Zenos Cars very precisely. Now all we have to do is deliver.....easy eh! We know the market we hope to appeal to.......it will be for the market to tell us if we've got it right (or wrong)!
We also appreciate all the comments on this thread. It makes for interesting reading and gives us a better understanding of your perceptions.....
Fantastic You have described the ambitions of Zenos Cars very precisely. Now all we have to do is deliver.....easy eh! We know the market we hope to appeal to.......it will be for the market to tell us if we've got it right (or wrong)!
We also appreciate all the comments on this thread. It makes for interesting reading and gives us a better understanding of your perceptions.....
Well I'm more than happy to come along and provide some input at any stage of the project
RoverP6B said:
Frankly, I think this market is crowded enough as it is without having a bunch of wannabes trying to muscle in and get their slice of the pie. Give the brands with real heritage a chance to secure their position first.
Yeah! Wind your beardy necks in, Zenos! Stop picking on the other manufacturers.Boooo!
Edited by SpeckledJim on Saturday 7th September 08:58
Whereas, typically in my experience during several motoring decades, politicians & managers are most effective at form-over-substance ("talking the talk") but, when it comes to more pragmatic "action", that's when we can all later see its more-often-than-not a different matter! However for successful engineering production, practical ability reigns: Dan Trent's excellent piece about Ansar Ali, Mark Edwards and Chris Weston shows them to be highly realistic & practical folk with apparently the firmest of grasps on how to turn automotive ideas into what promises to be an exciting reality - so far, so good and its "hats off" and "the very best of luck" to them all (commenting as a life-long sportscar fan and serial purchaser).
Suggestion: "management speak" often mentions but rarely seems to achieve the much sought-after outcome of 'synergy'. Observing from a distance, perhaps a collaboration/joint venture between 'Zenos' & the newly formed 'TVR Automotive' would prove to be a highly practical and mutually beneficial one, that should give rise to just such an elusive outcome - Messrs Ali & Edgar are invited to refelect...
Suggestion: "management speak" often mentions but rarely seems to achieve the much sought-after outcome of 'synergy'. Observing from a distance, perhaps a collaboration/joint venture between 'Zenos' & the newly formed 'TVR Automotive' would prove to be a highly practical and mutually beneficial one, that should give rise to just such an elusive outcome - Messrs Ali & Edgar are invited to refelect...
stevenkelby said:
This may be a bit OT but here's what I want to see.
A 3 seater.
Why, in the last hundred years, has there only been a single car made with 3 seats? And the F1 is considered by many to be the greatest car ever made.
A central driving position, and the ability to have 2 passengers, would be a quite a unique selling point.
How hard can it be? Whack the driver in the middle, 2 seats behind and to the side. Why has no one tried it in a cheaper car?
The F1 with it's V12 is shorter and narrower than an Evora too.
Anyway, something to think about.
.A 3 seater.
Why, in the last hundred years, has there only been a single car made with 3 seats? And the F1 is considered by many to be the greatest car ever made.
A central driving position, and the ability to have 2 passengers, would be a quite a unique selling point.
How hard can it be? Whack the driver in the middle, 2 seats behind and to the side. Why has no one tried it in a cheaper car?
The F1 with it's V12 is shorter and narrower than an Evora too.
Anyway, something to think about.
MATRA SIMCA BAGHEERA and there are probably more....
Nobody's noticed me pointing out the Ferrari 365P - the original 3-seater sports car!
I wish Zenos all the best if they can come up with a product that is high quality and has a USP over the established brands in this sector. However, if the product just turns out to be another kit car like a Westfield, given a choice between them and a brand with history and an established reputation, such as Caterham or Ginetta, it's the latter that would get my money.
I wish Zenos all the best if they can come up with a product that is high quality and has a USP over the established brands in this sector. However, if the product just turns out to be another kit car like a Westfield, given a choice between them and a brand with history and an established reputation, such as Caterham or Ginetta, it's the latter that would get my money.
wemorgan said:
Are there any more photos available of the tub with suspension?
Interesting concept having the aluminium tunnel section, which will give good bending stiffness but offer little in torsion stiffness. On the face of it I prefer the aluminium design of the Lotus Elise, but let's wait and see how this Zenos evolves.
I agree. Run loads of backbone chassis model through FE on the computer. Not a very torsionaly stiff concept.Interesting concept having the aluminium tunnel section, which will give good bending stiffness but offer little in torsion stiffness. On the face of it I prefer the aluminium design of the Lotus Elise, but let's wait and see how this Zenos evolves.
AER said:
Max_Torque said:
wemorgan said:
Interesting concept having the aluminium tunnel section, which will give good bending stiffness but offer little in torsion stiffness. On the face of it I prefer the aluminium design of the Lotus Elise, but let's wait and see how this Zenos evolves.
Not to mention also providing a great deal of side impact protection, something that you do really want on a road car. (having had a unwanted transit van come straight into the door of an Elise i was a passenger in, i can tell you that's a useful side effect of the elise tub......)Mark Benson said:
The 2 seater 'play' car market is very well catered for, what's going to differentiate Zenos from the others?
With £30k burning a hole in my pocket I could go out and buy a Lotus, Ginetta or Caterham - if I were prepared to look at second-hand, I'd have an even wider choice. I've had 2 Lotuses and could see myself in a Ginetta G40 at some point so I guess I'm probably the target market - what would tempt me into a Zenos?
I do like the look of this project, and the chassis looks interesting, but I'm yet to be convinced it's different enough to the competition.
£30K would get you a new Caterham and Ginetta G40 but the Elise is more like £40K isn't it? £60K+ for an Exige. With £30k burning a hole in my pocket I could go out and buy a Lotus, Ginetta or Caterham - if I were prepared to look at second-hand, I'd have an even wider choice. I've had 2 Lotuses and could see myself in a Ginetta G40 at some point so I guess I'm probably the target market - what would tempt me into a Zenos?
I do like the look of this project, and the chassis looks interesting, but I'm yet to be convinced it's different enough to the competition.
I have a Caterham and as much as I love it it's not the most practical and many would consider them unsafe. It's quite an event to decide to take the 7 out. And lets be brutally honest the look of a 7 isn't for everyone. Some consider it a classic - some as my sons friends say "a funny REALLY old car."
The G40 I'm a fan of but surely the market segment would demand an soft top rather than a coupe?
Whilst it might take sales from both Caterham and Ginetta I see this as competition to Lotus and the Elise and Exige.
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