M25. Is there any point in it anymore?
Discussion
Having endured it from the M20 to the M40 yesterday, taking 2 hours of start, stop, and managed bollux that alternated between 40 & 50 at every gantry, I don't think it's able to do it's original job anymore. Going past Heathrow, both directions of 4-5 lanes each side were standstill much of the time.
Unsure what the alternative is, maybe a super-M25 about 20 miles further out?
Unsure what the alternative is, maybe a super-M25 about 20 miles further out?
Without the M25 travel around London would be virtually impossible in reasonable time. Sadly with the unfettered growth of the UK population and consequent transport needs there is no easy answer. More people working with less business travelling would be good but traffic is and will remain a perennial problem in the UK. Just look at the schools effect alone on traffic as a marker.
Without the M25 travel around London would be virtually impossible in reasonable time. Sadly with the unfettered growth of the UK population and consequent transport needs there is no easy answer. More people working with less business travelling would be good but traffic is and will remain a perennial problem in the UK. Just look at the schools effect alone on traffic as a marker.
Steffan said:
Sadly with the unfettered growth of the UK south east of England population and consequent transport needs there is no easy answer.
I don't live in the south east and only go there as a tourist but I cant help thinking that the "build more cheap housing" thing is stupid. There must be a point where the land/roads/sewers just can't support anymore people.Sounds like they are getting close to that point.
I think they'll bring in road pricing on it.....there was talk before they started on the widening phase of closing some of the quieter junctions to discourage "junction hopping". The problem is the more capacity they add the more it will get used.
I live in NW London and say for example if I am going to Stanstead Airport I could either go out on the A1 and round the M25 or go across London and up the M11. There's actually not much in it time wise but I normally go the M25 way.
They could introduce pricing if you travelled less than two junctions for example.
I live in NW London and say for example if I am going to Stanstead Airport I could either go out on the A1 and round the M25 or go across London and up the M11. There's actually not much in it time wise but I normally go the M25 way.
They could introduce pricing if you travelled less than two junctions for example.
Cheib said:
They could introduce pricing if you travelled less than two junctions for example.
Bang on. It needs tolls to keep the school run mums, reps and shrt range commuters off it.That said, it does keep inner London moving thanks to soaking up all the dullards who can't navigate suburban streets ;-)
Steffan said:
Without the M25 travel around London would be virtually impossible in reasonable time. Sadly with the unfettered growth of the UK population and consequent transport needs there is no easy answer. More people working with less business travelling would be good but traffic is and will remain a perennial problem in the UK. Just look at the schools effect alone on traffic as a marker.
Truth of it. To get through London I've gone back to using the scenic Hanger Lane/ North Circ route rather than the M25 because if you're going to crawl in traffic you might as well choose the way with fewer miles.
SuperHangOn said:
Steffan said:
Without the M25 travel around London would be virtually impossible in reasonable time. Sadly with the unfettered growth of the UK population and consequent transport needs there is no easy answer. More people working with less business travelling would be good but traffic is and will remain a perennial problem in the UK. Just look at the schools effect alone on traffic as a marker.
Truth of it. To get through London I've gone back to using the scenic Hanger Lane/ North Circ route rather than the M25 because if you're going to crawl in traffic you might as well choose the way with fewer miles.
SuperHangOn said:
Truth of it.
To get through London I've gone back to using the scenic Hanger Lane/ North Circ route rather than the M25 because if you're going to crawl in traffic you might as well choose the way with fewer miles.
Sounds good but it doesn't work like that.To get through London I've gone back to using the scenic Hanger Lane/ North Circ route rather than the M25 because if you're going to crawl in traffic you might as well choose the way with fewer miles.
I live in W. London, close to A40 and not far from J16 of M25. Brother lives in Orpington. I can go thru town, 31 miles and about 2.5 - 3 hours every time. Or M25, 61 miles, anything between 1hr 20 & 2.5 hrs.
M25, even when it's slow, is never worse than going thru town. Unless it was 3am or something.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
SuperHangOn said:
Truth of it.
To get through London I've gone back to using the scenic Hanger Lane/ North Circ route rather than the M25 because if you're going to crawl in traffic you might as well choose the way with fewer miles.
Sounds good but it doesn't work like that.To get through London I've gone back to using the scenic Hanger Lane/ North Circ route rather than the M25 because if you're going to crawl in traffic you might as well choose the way with fewer miles.
I live in W. London, close to A40 and not far from J16 of M25. Brother lives in Orpington. I can go thru town, 31 miles and about 2.5 - 3 hours every time. Or M25, 61 miles, anything between 1hr 20 & 2.5 hrs.
M25, even when it's slow, is never worse than going thru town. Unless it was 3am or something.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Sounds good but it doesn't work like that.
I live in W. London, close to A40 and not far from J16 of M25. Brother lives in Orpington. I can go thru town, 31 miles and about 2.5 - 3 hours every time. Or M25, 61 miles, anything between 1hr 20 & 2.5 hrs.
M25, even when it's slow, is never worse than going thru town. Unless it was 3am or something.
I honestly couldn't fathom doing that (31 miles in 3 hours).I live in W. London, close to A40 and not far from J16 of M25. Brother lives in Orpington. I can go thru town, 31 miles and about 2.5 - 3 hours every time. Or M25, 61 miles, anything between 1hr 20 & 2.5 hrs.
M25, even when it's slow, is never worse than going thru town. Unless it was 3am or something.
Sod living, permenantly, within the M25.
It's as simple as 'the South East is over-populated'.
Edited by TheLordJohn on Saturday 7th September 21:46
Steffan said:
That has been my experience over driving in London since the M25 opened. The North Circular may (??) be more scenic, but the M25 is still the best of a bad job in journey times and accident risk. I find it consistently quicker than alternative routes around London but given the traffic volumes steadily less quick than it was. Circumnavigating London without it would be very much more difficult if not practically impossible within reasonable journey times.
Trust me the north circular is not more scenic. The M25 does an OK job most of the time. Yes it can be slow and accidents disrupt it quickly but its biggest hazard is the sheer unpredictability of it.It can take twice as long for the same journey at the same time of day and that's very frustrating. But, the journey the OP talks about could easily have averaged 70 mph with little or no hold ups.
Fact is that all orbital motorway networks around major cities get horribly congested. The M60 in Manchester is much the same, the M6 through Birmingham, despite the relief toll road, likewise etc etc. The network around Paris is just a joke.
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