ethanol in fuel

[Jagmanv12]

windy1 said:

There was an FBHVC report put out recently involving a meeting with the fuel suppliers which stated that super unleaded did not contain ethanol.

I read that all Shell petrol contains ethanol but BP super unleaded doesn't. Virtually all the petrol stations near me are Shell.

[Big Fat Fatty]

stug45 said:

Looks like super unleaded is the only way. Better to have less ethanol of there's more.

I'll be drinking less fuel soon

By the sounds of it we'll be able to drink it soon, better than vodka I bet.

[nonuts]

Tesco super does by the look of it:

http://www.tescopfs.com/momentum99/specifications

Would be good if all the others would publish the same...

[XTR2Turbo]

Esso say no ethanol in their 'Super' unleaded

[CraigyMc]

XTR2Turbo said:

Esso say no ethanol in their 'Super' unleaded

[Riley Blue]

To date I've seen no evidence that any fuel sold in the UK is ethanol free.

Those who claim Shell, BP or whoever's Super Unleaded has zero ethanol content have yet to provide any proof i.e. a recent document from the fuel manufacturer. Until they do I don't accept that ethanol-free fuel is available.

[CraigyMc]

Riley Blue said:

To date I've seen no evidence that any fuel sold in the UK is ethanol free.

Those who claim Shell, BP or whoever's Super Unleaded has zero ethanol content have yet to provide any proof i.e. a recent document from the fuel manufacturer. Until they do I don't accept that ethanol-free fuel is available.

I agree with this, and it's why I put the "citation needed" thing up.

C

[The Tea Boy]

So then, this ethanol %, is it yet another plan by the government to extort more money out of us?
We get lower mpg so more fill ups
We get lower mpg again, so how long before they start deciding to tax on mpg rather than emissions?

Matt

[CraigyMc]

OK, here's a shell data sheet from 2009, handed out this year to the formula student crowd:
http://www.formulastudent.com/docs/default-source/...

Basically it says they will have from 0% to 5% ethanol, and the typical value is anywhere in that range.
We knew that already. Chocolate teapot time.

I wonder if there's another way to figure it out. Material safety data sheets?
http://www.shell.com/global/products-services/solu...

Perhaps it's buried in the data somewhere.
C

[lufbramatt]

Esso Supreme= 5% ethanol

http://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=h...

Esso normal= 5% ethanol

http://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=h...

However, it seems that this can change depending on the region, guess it depends what refinery it comes from. I found other sites that state that Esso supreme only contains ethanol in the south west of England . . .

Pretty sure I can find some more . . .

Edited by lufbramatt on Thursday 12th September 10:27

[Mr MXT]

CraigyMc said:

OK, here's a shell data sheet from 2009, handed out this year to the formula student crowd:
http://www.formulastudent.com/docs/default-source/...

Basically it says they will have from 0% to 5% ethanol, and the typical value is anywhere in that range.
We knew that already. Chocolate teapot time.

I wonder if there's another way to figure it out. Material safety data sheets?
http://www.shell.com/global/products-services/solu...

Perhaps it's buried in the data somewhere.
C

Re: Super - it actually depends on your location. I.e. Branded Super may contain Ethanol in the South West, but not in the North East.

The vast majority of all ULSP is E5 regardless of locale.

I work in supply for an oil company.

[CraigyMc]

The Tea Boy said:

So then, this ethanol %, is it yet another plan by the government to extort more money out of us?
We get lower mpg so more fill ups
We get lower mpg again, so how long before they start deciding to tax on mpg rather than emissions?

Matt

Devils advocate said:

The difference between E0 (ethanol free fuel) and E5 (5% ethanol) in terms of energy content is approximately 1.5%.
If you've an older car getting 30mpg precisely will you actually notice it going up to 30.3mpg because you found somewhere doing E0 fuel instead of E5?

I appreciate the ethanol question for those who don't want to kill perishables in their engines, of for people who cannot have water content in their fuel.

C

[CraigyMc]

Mr MXT said:

CraigyMc said:

OK, here's a shell data sheet from 2009, handed out this year to the formula student crowd:
http://www.formulastudent.com/docs/default-source/...

Basically it says they will have from 0% to 5% ethanol, and the typical value is anywhere in that range.
We knew that already. Chocolate teapot time.

I wonder if there's another way to figure it out. Material safety data sheets?
http://www.shell.com/global/products-services/solu...

Perhaps it's buried in the data somewhere.
C

Re: Super - it actually depends on your location. I.e. Branded Super may contain Ethanol in the South West, but not in the North East.

The vast majority of all ULSP is E5 regardless of locale.

I work in supply for an oil company.

Understood, and useful, but I think lots of people on here would like to see the data in a formal way, if you see what I mean.

Probably won't ever get it though!

C

[Mr MXT]

CraigyMc said:

Understood, and useful, but I think lots of people on here would like to see the data in a formal way, if you see what I mean.

Probably won't ever get it though!

C

I agree Craig, got to be careful what I post though obviously. Just highlighted in your quote that the data sheet was from 2009 sop possibly no longer applicable. (I don't work in Fuel Quality, so aren't up to speed with the regs)

[CraigyMc]

Mr MXT said:

CraigyMc said:

Understood, and useful, but I think lots of people on here would like to see the data in a formal way, if you see what I mean.

Probably won't ever get it though!

C

I agree Craig, got to be careful what I post though obviously. Just highlighted in your quote that the data sheet was from 2009 sop possibly no longer applicable. (I don't work in Fuel Quality, so aren't up to speed with the regs)

Yep. There are things I can't post on here too (though not about fuel).

The 2009 data sheet is almost certain to be wrong by now, but it is at least a start (it's an official release from a producer). As I understand it the market is moving to E10 this year anyway, as part of another EU directive. That being the case, the 0-5% shown on the sheet will certainly be wrong.

C

[XTR2Turbo]

Riley Blue said:

To date I've seen no evidence that any fuel sold in the UK is ethanol free.

Those who claim Shell, BP or whoever's Super Unleaded has zero ethanol content have yet to provide any proof i.e. a recent document from the fuel manufacturer. Until they do I don't accept that ethanol-free fuel is available.

In this month's Bugatti owner's club magazine there is a letter from Anett Furedi of Esso replying to a question about Ethanol

She states that at present there is a legal requirement for 95 grade fuel to have 5% ethanol but no such requirement for 97 grade fuel. This will change from Jan 2014 when it will be 10% for 95 and 5% for 97

She states that Esso Energy Supreme presently contains no ethanol except in Devon, Cornwall, Teeside and Scotland where I guess they source differently

[CraigyMc]

XTR2Turbo said:

Riley Blue said:

To date I've seen no evidence that any fuel sold in the UK is ethanol free.

Those who claim Shell, BP or whoever's Super Unleaded has zero ethanol content have yet to provide any proof i.e. a recent document from the fuel manufacturer. Until they do I don't accept that ethanol-free fuel is available.

In this month's Bugatti owner's club magazine there is a letter from Anett Furedi of Esso replying to a question about Ethanol

She states that at present there is a legal requirement for 95 grade fuel to have 5% ethanol but no such requirement for 97 grade fuel. This will change from Jan 2014 when it will be 10% for 95 and 5% for 97

She states that Esso Energy Supreme presently contains no ethanol except in Devon, Cornwall, Teeside and Scotland where I guess they source differently

There's only one refinery in Scotland - Grangemouth - and as far as I know all the companies get ther fuel there for the local market. It's a Ineos refinery, having been bought from BP in about 2006 or so. I think Petrochina has something to do with it too.

C

[RizzoTheRat]

The Tea Boy said:

So then, this ethanol %, is it yet another plan by the government to extort more money out of us?

No, it's an EU thing to be "environmentally friendly" and use more renewable fuels. Of course they fail to think about potential global food shortages when they start encouraging farmers to grow fuel crops instead of food...

[Evoluzione]

I suspect that Ethanol is cheaper to produce the petrol, it is certainly much cheaper to buy (maybe that's down to the taxes applied) and E85 definitely is.
If this is the case then we are being ripped off, that's my only complaint about it.