Australian driver tries to pay parking fine in small change!

[justanotherJC]

Just saw this: Telegraph linky

He goes to pay a AU$60 fine with 5-cent coins after saying 'Cash ok?', and then the council cashier refuses to accept it.

Surely it's OK to pay a fine with legal tender? I can understand that the cashier didn't want to count it though!

[KTF]

He really showed them who was the man.

I imagine they don't have the facilities to count/weigh or store coins in that volume.

[reggie82]

It's not legal tender to pay that much in coins.

http://banknotes.rba.gov.au/legaltender.html

[kambites]

justanotherJC said:

Surely it's OK to pay a fine with legal tender? I can understand that the cashier didn't want to count it though!

$60 in 5 cent coins is almost certainly not legal tender. The equivalent certainly wouldn't be in the UK.

[ModernAndy]

Yep, there are laws to prevent people being an arse with small change. There was one in the UK a few years ago where a business owner tried to pay another business owner £800 in pennies. He got taken to court and had to shell out even more as there was no way the recipient was going to accept half a tonne of coins when he could have got a cheque

[onesickpuppy]

reggie82 said:

It's not legal tender to pay that much in coins.

http://banknotes.rba.gov.au/legaltender.html

The 2nd paragraph below (from the Aussie Bank website) might help his cause though:

It appears that a provider of goods or services is at liberty to set the commercial terms upon which payment will take place before the 'contract' for supply of the goods or services is entered into. For example, some vending machines, parking meters and road toll collection points indicate by signs that they will not accept low denomination coins. Some road toll collection points indicate that they will not accept any cash at all. If a provider of goods or services specifies other means of payment prior to the contract, then there is usually no obligation for legal tender to be accepted as payment.

The Reserve Bank of Australia understands that this is the case even where an existing debt is involved. However, refusal to accept legal tender in payment of an existing debt, where no other means of payment/settlement has been specified in advance, conceivably could have consequences in legal proceedings; for example, the creditor may be unable to enforce payment in any other form.


ETA: Actually, maybe not as that amount isn't 'legal tender', right?

Edited by onesickpuppy on Tuesday 17th September 09:56

[reggie82]

onesickpuppy said:

The 2nd paragraph below (from the Aussie Bank website) might help his cause though:

It appears that a provider of goods or services is at liberty to set the commercial terms upon which payment will take place before the 'contract' for supply of the goods or services is entered into. For example, some vending machines, parking meters and road toll collection points indicate by signs that they will not accept low denomination coins. Some road toll collection points indicate that they will not accept any cash at all. If a provider of goods or services specifies other means of payment prior to the contract, then there is usually no obligation for legal tender to be accepted as payment.

The Reserve Bank of Australia understands that this is the case even where an existing debt is involved. However, refusal to accept legal tender in payment of an existing debt, where no other means of payment/settlement has been specified in advance, conceivably could have consequences in legal proceedings; for example, the creditor may be unable to enforce payment in any other form.


ETA: Actually, maybe not as that amount isn't 'legal tender', right?

Edited by onesickpuppy on Tuesday 17th September 09:56

Yeah it's basically saying if somebody offers to pay a debt in 'legal tender' and you refuse because you want a bank transfer for example, you ain't gonna have much luck taking it to court (providing it wasn't agreed in advance it would have been by bank transfer).

As you say though, due to the amount it wasn't legal tender.

[dave7692]

Isn't the limit in England like £5-10 in small change before they can refuse it? I don't know about Oz though.

[Deerfoot]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202872/Ma...

Sorry for the wail link but this guy did it better.......

[Rovinghawk]

TerryMI5 said:

I thought you can pay for anything however you want?

You can't pay in turnips, you can't pay huge bills with tonnes of coins that would take weeks to count, you can't pay in a way other than what was originally agreed prior to commencement of a deal.

[CraigyMc]

Coins are legal tender throughout the United Kingdom for the following amount:

• £2 - for any amount
• £1 - for any amount
• 50p - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 20p - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 10p - for any amount not exceeding £5
• 5p - for any amount not exceeding £5
• 2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p
• 1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

I wonder what the specific rules are in Oz.

C

[jamieduff1981]

Rovinghawk said:

TerryMI5 said:

I thought you can pay for anything however you want?

You can't pay in turnips, you can't pay huge bills with tonnes of coins that would take weeks to count, you can't pay in a way other than what was originally agreed prior to commencement of a deal.

Unless your contract is with Baldrick, in which case turnips are legal tender under bylaws.

[Rovinghawk]

jamieduff1981 said:

Unless your contract is with Baldrick, in which case turnips are legal tender under bylaws.

Obviously- I mean, everyone knows that.

[300bhp/ton]

CraigyMc said:

Coins are legal tender throughout the United Kingdom for the following amount:

• £2 - for any amount
• £1 - for any amount
• 50p - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 20p - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 10p - for any amount not exceeding £5
• 5p - for any amount not exceeding £5
• 2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p
• 1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

I wonder what the specific rules are in Oz.

C

Interesting. Do you have a link to reference this at all?

[Greg_D]

300bhp/ton said:

CraigyMc said:

Coins are legal tender throughout the United Kingdom for the following amount:

• £2 - for any amount
• £1 - for any amount
• 50p - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 20p - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 10p - for any amount not exceeding £5
• 5p - for any amount not exceeding £5
• 2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p
• 1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

I wonder what the specific rules are in Oz.

C

Interesting. Do you have a link to reference this at all?

there is a notice up at my local council parking office (where i get my season ticket - but also where you can pay parking fines) to the same effect, to stop people paying £60 in pennies. they cease to be legal tender after certain limits

[kambites]

300bhp/ton said:

nteresting. Do you have a link to reference this at all?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=uk+legal+tender&l=1

[GroundEffect]

300bhp/ton said:

CraigyMc said:

Coins are legal tender throughout the United Kingdom for the following amount:

• £2 - for any amount
• £1 - for any amount
• 50p - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 20p - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 10p - for any amount not exceeding £5
• 5p - for any amount not exceeding £5
• 2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p
• 1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

I wonder what the specific rules are in Oz.

C

Interesting. Do you have a link to reference this at all?

http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines

I thought this was common knowledge?

[300bhp/ton]

Greg_D said:

there is a notice up at my local council parking office (where i get my season ticket - but also where you can pay parking fines) to the same effect, to stop people paying £60 in pennies. they cease to be legal tender after certain limits

Is this universal for anything, or just when there is a sign saying so? Would love to have something referencable for this. And, excuse the pun, but the other side of the coin when using something like a £20 or £50 note to pay for a 70p chocolate bar.

[CampDavid]

CraigyMc said:

Coins are legal tender throughout the United Kingdom for the following amount:

• £2 - for any amount
• £1 - for any amount
• 50p - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 20p - for any amount not exceeding £10
• 10p - for any amount not exceeding £5
• 5p - for any amount not exceeding £5
• 2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p
• 1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

I wonder what the specific rules are in Oz.

C

It did used to be any amount for 5ps up. Guess they've changed that now. I blame YouTube

[kambites]

300bhp/ton said:

Is this universal for anything, or just when there is a sign saying so? Would love to have something referencable for this. And, excuse the pun, but the other side of the coin when using something like a £20 or £50 note to pay for a 70p chocolate bar.

It's part of the definition of "legal tender".

People are, of course, allowed to take payment that isn't legal tender if they want to, be it a bucket of 1p coins or a lorry load of cabbages. All "legal tender" means is that you are obliged to take it in settlement of a debt.