RE: BMW M135i vs Audi S3

[Wolands Advocate]

George29 said:

I tested the M135i and I found it a bit dull.

S3 3 door with S-Tronic gearbox for me. Shame it's so expensive, I specced one up to match my current S3 and it came to over £37k. Will wait for a lightly used one at sub-£30k I think.

As an M135i owner, I'd be interested to know (having not driven the new S3 - it wasn't out at the time) what you found dull about the M135i compared to the S3. Particularly with the auto 'boxes which I find don't help add excitment.

I like S3s in general (I had one of the original ones - still the ne plus ultra of good-looking hot hatches - and an A3 1.8T quattro prior to that) and so when last changing my car last year test-drove the last S3 Sportback in manual guise and then the RS3 (which is obviously DSG-only). I quite liked the S3 but on balance found the engine characterless and down on power and the handling merely grippy. The RS3 by contrast doesn't suffer from a characterless engine - it sounds marvellous and has rocketship pace. But with the DSG gearbox and mute handling, it just didn't make me feel involved in the process. Didn't make me grin and I consider that quite a failing in something that has been tested to 60 in under 4 seconds. That combined with the fact that the then-cabin design was on its last legs made me go elsewhere.

So of course the new S3 is interesting. However, so far most reviews suggest that the new S3 is an improvement on the last one but still doesn't offer the yardstick in terms of driver involvement or character. That's not super-inspiring, whereas I find the M135i lots of fun to drive when I want it to be and a nice calm place when I'm tired and not in the mood. Also, I do love having a engine that makes a proper tuneful noise - after several BMW straight sixes and a V10, a Merc V8 and THE Alfa V6, I'm not sure I could go back to a workaday 4-pot (although the Alfa 4C is sounding exception-worthy).

So, interested (genuinely) in your thoughts on this (putting the subjective matter of design to one side).

[George29]

Wolands Advocate said:

As an M135i owner, I'd be interested to know (having not driven the new S3 - it wasn't out at the time) what you found dull about the M135i compared to the S3. Particularly with the auto 'boxes which I find don't help add excitment.

So, interested (genuinely) in your thoughts on this (putting the subjective matter of design to one side).

The DSG gearbox in the S3 is far, far better than the auto in the BMW. I don't do manuals so couldn't care about that option. I think the BMW doesn't sound as good as the S3 imo (BMW has a nicer tone, but is too muted), and the lack of popping on gearchanges like you get with the S3 was very disappointing. The BMW's interior is dull and I really dislike the iDrive thing too.

I preferred the masses of grip available by the Audi over the M135i too. Plus the fact that the S3 isn't actually that bad during winter, whereas I can't imagine the BMW is great. As a daily car for me, usability came first on the list of priorities. I'm fairly sure I'd be faster point to point in an S3 too.

[nickfrog]

George29 said:

I preferred the masses of grip available by the Audi over the M135i too.

Harris found the M135i grippier than the RS3.

Or do you purely mean traction rather then lat grip?

[scherzkeks]

nickfrog said:

Harris found the M135i grippier than the RS3.

Or do you purely mean traction rather then lat grip?

I don't remember him saying that. If that were the case though, it is worth mentioning that the M135i had Pilot Super Sports, which make a huge difference.

[Wolands Advocate]

George29 said:

Wolands Advocate said:

As an M135i owner, I'd be interested to know (having not driven the new S3 - it wasn't out at the time) what you found dull about the M135i compared to the S3. Particularly with the auto 'boxes which I find don't help add excitment.

So, interested (genuinely) in your thoughts on this (putting the subjective matter of design to one side).

The DSG gearbox in the S3 is far, far better than the auto in the BMW. I don't do manuals so couldn't care about that option. I think the BMW doesn't sound as good as the S3 imo (BMW has a nicer tone, but is too muted), and the lack of popping on gearchanges like you get with the S3 was very disappointing. The BMW's interior is dull and I really dislike the iDrive thing too.

I preferred the masses of grip available by the Audi over the M135i too. Plus the fact that the S3 isn't actually that bad during winter, whereas I can't imagine the BMW is great. As a daily car for me, usability came first on the list of priorities. I'm fairly sure I'd be faster point to point in an S3 too.

Fair enough - I don't do automatics in anything intended to be sporty but since Audi also allow you to have a manual S3, that's a moot point.

Anyway interesting. I think it's the six cylinder power-plant that swings it for me though, ultimately. If the S3 came as a manual V6, I'd very probably have that instead – I really like the whole mini-estate thing the Sportback has going on.

I would probably have gone for the xDrive version of the M135i had it been available in the UK but having said that, in very nearly a year of ownership, I've never encountered a situation in which I actually needed 4wd. The grip levels on the Supersports are more than sufficient in normal driving and I forked out for a set of Pirelli Sottozero winter wheels/tyres as we go down to the Alps every winter and on winter tyres with the DSC switched off I've yet to get stuck despite encountering quite a bit of snow and ice.

[Vladimir]

With rumours of a proper diff being an option from Spring, I'm rather excited because they seriously enhance grip in snow and ice; you almost don't need AWD. I also love RWD and will never get a FWD car again. AWD is fine (our camper has it) but unless I can afford a 911 turbo, it's not for me.

[FamilyDub]

George29 said:

I think the BMW doesn't sound as good as the S3 imo (BMW has a nicer tone, but is too muted).

^ as an owner of a 4-cylinder VAG turbo, I very much doubt it sounds better then a BMW I6.

[toppstuff]

George29 said:

Wolands Advocate said:

As an M135i owner, I'd be interested to know (having not driven the new S3 - it wasn't out at the time) what you found dull about the M135i compared to the S3. Particularly with the auto 'boxes which I find don't help add excitment.

So, interested (genuinely) in your thoughts on this (putting the subjective matter of design to one side).

The DSG gearbox in the S3 is far, far better than the auto in the BMW. I don't do manuals so couldn't care about that option. I think the BMW doesn't sound as good as the S3 imo (BMW has a nicer tone, but is too muted), and the lack of popping on gearchanges like you get with the S3 was very disappointing. The BMW's interior is dull and I really dislike the iDrive thing too.

I preferred the masses of grip available by the Audi over the M135i too. Plus the fact that the S3 isn't actually that bad during winter, whereas I can't imagine the BMW is great. As a daily car for me, usability came first on the list of priorities. I'm fairly sure I'd be faster point to point in an S3 too.

Very interesting. Having recently had extended time in both, my experiences and resulting opinions were the complete opposite ! I preferred the BMW's engine, gearbox, sound and handling. The Audi did little for me really - I found myself thinking that if I was to get an A3 I may as well have a diesel, because the S3 sounded dull and steered in a fairly lumpen, woolly way and did'nt feel sporting.

Each to their own though. Truth is, I doubt I would have either and would probably get something used instead.

[George29]

FamilyDub said:

George29 said:

I think the BMW doesn't sound as good as the S3 imo (BMW has a nicer tone, but is too muted).

^ as an owner of a 4-cylinder VAG turbo, I very much doubt it sounds better then a BMW I6.

You doubt my opinion on something? Very odd.

If you actually quoted the rest of what I said you would see how I prefer the pops and bangs of the S3, especially during gear changes. The BMW was just too quiet.

[stuart-b]

George29 said:

You doubt my opinion on something? Very odd.

If you actually quoted the rest of what I said you would see how I prefer the pops and bangs of the S3, especially during gear changes. The BMW was just too quiet.

With a BMW performance exhaust it will pop a lot, and sound fantastic.

[CraigV6]

ZesPak said:

[tinfoilhat]

I often wonder that car manufacturers, and in particular BMW, just create a car that looks "meh" or has a face that just has something wrong, just so they can fix it in the facelift and push people over the edge.

I mean, did they really think, hey let's put out this small hatchback, take a step back and thought, yes, this looks good:



I find that very hard to believe.

[/tinfoilhat]

Without a doubt one of the worst looking cars released in many a year.
Couldn't care less if it was the best drivers car ever released, and the biggest bargain in the history of car buying.
Do people have no taste these days.................or does the fact it's a bargain and reviews well cause partial blindness????

Edited by CraigV6 on Wednesday 25th September 22:56

Edited by CraigV6 on Wednesday 25th September 22:57

[toppstuff]

CraigV6 said:

Without a doubt one of the worst looking cars released in many a year.
Couldn't care less if it was the best drivers car ever released, and the biggest bargain in the history of car buying.
Do people have no taste these days.................or does the fact it's a bargain and reviews well cause partial blindness????

Edited by CraigV6 on Wednesday 25th September 22:56

Edited by CraigV6 on Wednesday 25th September 22:57

Entirely subjective.

I think the 1 series looks distinctive even, from some angles, quite good looking, while the Audi looks a bit generic and bland.

[George29]

toppstuff said:

Entirely subjective.

I think the 1 series looks distinctive even, from some angles, quite good looking, while the Audi looks a bit generic and bland.

I agree it's subjective. I think the Audi is perfectly discreet and subtle, with nice sporty touches (although I'm not a fan of the quad exhausts). The BMW is just ugly.

[General Zod]

CraigV6 said:

Without a doubt one of the worst looking cars released in many a year.
Couldn't care less if it was the best drivers car ever released, and the biggest bargain in the history of car buying.
Do people have no taste these days.................or does the fact it's a bargain and reviews well cause partial blindness????

Just shows how different people are! Your opinion of "taste" couldn't be any less relevant to the decision to buy this car. In fact I wonder why someone who makes the statement "Couldn't care less if it was the best drivers car ever released" is on a driving enthusiast's site?

[Nors]

I know looks are subjective, but I can't help thinking if the 1 series had anything but a BMW badge on it, it would be slated for it's looks by many many more. Including those in the BMW camp.

[ZesPak]

Tbh, if it didn't have a BMW badge up, it'd be in the grey mass with the i30 and the likes, albeit worse looking and less reliable.

[nickfrog]

Nors said:

I know looks are subjective, but I can't help thinking if the 1 series had anything but a BMW badge on it, it would be slated for it's looks by many many more. Including those in the BMW camp.

Or maybe it's not a camp ? Just people who like cars irrespective of badge / image.

Actually, there is some truth in what you say but conversely would the unconventional looks of that car be so aggressively attacked if it wasn't a BMW ? There seems to be so much anger about what remains a subjective and personal taste. I wonder why. Maybe a little frustration / anger / jealousy from some who are almost relieved to find it ugly as it gives them a superb reason not to spend £30k, not that they could anyway.

I think a M135i looks beautiful but I systematically get ridiculed or even accused of lying for just liking it, which is quite bizarre.

My only problem with it is the way it seems to hold its value !!!

[Vladimir]

So much vitriol towards a cars looks, very little about how it drives.

A sorry state of affairs.

[shoestring7]

Agreed.

I test drove an M135i a few days ago. I loved the ballistic straight line performance, rwd handling, good ride, reasonable running costs, refinement, good equipment levels, interior quality, and its practical and understated 5 door package.

I wasn't keen on the lack of damping control on lumpy tarmac or the dull variable rack, but with excellent discounts I'm seriously considering it to replace my mk5 Gti. Frankly, there's nothing else on the market that I'd consider; VAG stuff leaves me meh.

The Golf has proved an excellent family/commuter/parts wagon; mine is fully loaded (DSG/leather/Xenons/roof/wipers/parking/cruise etc.etc.)., it gets 35mpg on a run, and goes well enough, but its fwd handling has always left me cold even after fitting a Bilstein B12 kit to replace the knackered OE kit at 50k miles.

SS7

[Nors]

nickfrog said:

Nors said:

I know looks are subjective, but I can't help thinking if the 1 series had anything but a BMW badge on it, it would be slated for it's looks by many many more. Including those in the BMW camp.

Or maybe it's not a camp ? Just people who like cars irrespective of badge / image.

Actually, there is some truth in what you say but conversely would the unconventional looks of that car be so aggressively attacked if it wasn't a BMW ? There seems to be so much anger about what remains a subjective and personal taste. I wonder why. Maybe a little frustration / anger / jealousy from some who are almost relieved to find it ugly as it gives them a superb reason not to spend £30k, not that they could anyway.

I think a M135i looks beautiful but I systematically get ridiculed or even accused of lying for just liking it, which is quite bizarre.

My only problem with it is the way it seems to hold its value !!!

When I said BMW camp, I was merely refering to those BMW owners/supporters who have no issue with it's looks. Nothing derogatory intended.

Would it not be be attacked if it wasn't a BMW? Probably not, because it wouldn't get noticed I would guess!

It gets attacked conversely in my opinion because many see it as not good enough from BMW. Anger, jealousy? I can't see many that openly state they don't like it's looks suffering any of those emotions. Frustrating? More so perhaps, because it obviously does the driving bit, but fails in other areas.

I can understand those that take less interest in it's looks over the way it drives / goes, but I do struggle a bit when it's refered to as 'beautiful' as you put it. However, that's a personal thing and nothing to do with me.