RE: BMW M135i vs Audi S3
Discussion
Correct me if I'm wrong, but why do people go on about the M135is performance so much? It's, what, 316bhp and 1515kg? So not any faster than my current Evo (325bhp, 1590kg), which I don't consider all that quick. Certainly not supercar quick. Yes, it's faster than run of the mill hot hatches, but that's where it ends.
Wolands Advocate said:
pilchardthecat said:
Ian_C said:
.... Never seen the point in keyless myself, nowt wrong with pressing a button to unlock the car, or sticking a key in an ignition.
For the Melvin Udalls of the population, who have to triple check that they locked the car, then go back and unlock it and lock it again..... then go back and try the door handle just to make sure - keyless entry is an OCD nightmare. How would you ever even know???!!!That is, assuming that keyless access allows you to lock the car yourself...
General Zod said:
Top 3 reasons for disliking M135i seem to be:
Looks not to the majority's taste
Worries about people's perception of the driver
Does not look "quick" enough
All seem to be very... shallow (for want of a better word)
My top 3Looks not to the majority's taste
Worries about people's perception of the driver
Does not look "quick" enough
All seem to be very... shallow (for want of a better word)
- It looks ghastly
- No LSD
- I seem to be entirely alone in this but I do not like that engine
Any car that gets put on a pedestal will soon get shot down by the usual suspects.
We plan to get one after the 335d but it's not yet set in stone; just seems like a lot of fun, slightly practical and BMW built; our current BM has been faultless for five years.
It looks okay in the right colour and 95% of those moaning about the lack of an LSD couldn't tell a car fitted with (or without) one if they tried; they just say it to sound 'ardcore.
We plan to get one after the 335d but it's not yet set in stone; just seems like a lot of fun, slightly practical and BMW built; our current BM has been faultless for five years.
It looks okay in the right colour and 95% of those moaning about the lack of an LSD couldn't tell a car fitted with (or without) one if they tried; they just say it to sound 'ardcore.
Edited by Vladimir on Thursday 19th September 19:31
Article said:
the traditionally undersquare design happier at low revs than close to the redline. Which, unfortunately, is just where the BMW has a glorious finale to its power band, its revvier oversquare nature and six-cylinder balance really coming through.
What do undersquare and oversquare mean please ? 
Here is the one I had in Germany. Engine and gearbox are absolutely fantastic, really impressed with the innovation over the E92, and the Interior is very nice too (although the window line is too high, not good to rest your arm). But it's pig pug ugly, and I just couldn't warm to it. The Audi looks so much better in every regard.
265km/hr on the autobahn having a blast with a CL63 and VW R32 was the highlight - along with a nice long blast around the alps, it felt better than the Z4 35si, as the 8 speed ZF is much better than the 7 speed in the Z4 (which felt nackered at only 20,000 km).
If it just looked different I would have one in a shot ...
Edited by stuart-b on Thursday 19th September 19:43
DibblyDobbler said:
What do undersquare and oversquare mean please ?
If the bore and stroke are the same they're square, if the bore is greater it's over and if the stroke is longer it's under. Generally speaking the more oversquare the engine the revvier and more peaky it'll be, an undersquare engine more torquey but less happy with high revs. That's a sweeping generalisation and there are exceptions but the general pattern is illustrated in the characters of these two particular engines. There's a lot more to it than that of course but Audi, traditionally, favours undersquare engines (as told to me by an engineer on an RS launch) and the EA888 2.0 turbo in the S3 was developed by them IIRC. Even the V10 in the R8 is undersquare but, just to prove it's not black and white, isn't shy of a few revs.
Cheers!
Dan
4wdrift said:
Just sold my M135i (manual).
After 6 months of ownership, I cannot say that I loved it.
Certainly enjoyed my previous car - a 130i much more than the M135i (even with the 130i's bouncy ride).
The M135i just didn't engage me! Never turned back to look at the car, nor had an exciting 'back road' drive in it.
Was very quick (esp. mid range) but lacklustre delivery.
Could you elaborate on lacklustre delivery? Is it mostly the steering you suspect failed the car or did the engine play a big part too?After 6 months of ownership, I cannot say that I loved it.
Certainly enjoyed my previous car - a 130i much more than the M135i (even with the 130i's bouncy ride).
The M135i just didn't engage me! Never turned back to look at the car, nor had an exciting 'back road' drive in it.
Was very quick (esp. mid range) but lacklustre delivery.
Turbo charging is something I'm quite weary of coming from a 328i, but I'd hoped if there were any cars out there then the M135i could have changed my mind. Reading this though I'm not so sure and makes me wonder what else to get next other than a GT86..
Vladimir said:
Any car that gets put on a pedestal will soon get shot down by the usual suspects.
We plan to get one after the 335d but it's not yet set in stone; just seems like a lot of fun, slightly practical and BMW built; our current BM has been faultless for five years.
It looks okay in the right colour and 95% of those moaning about the lack of an LSD couldn't tell a car fitted with (or without) one if they tried; they just say it to sound 'ardcore.
Sorry but you can easily tell - with that much power, the DSC is forever flashing - whereas with an LSD, much less - plus corner exit speed is significantly improved and more stable if exiting on a slight cornerWe plan to get one after the 335d but it's not yet set in stone; just seems like a lot of fun, slightly practical and BMW built; our current BM has been faultless for five years.
It looks okay in the right colour and 95% of those moaning about the lack of an LSD couldn't tell a car fitted with (or without) one if they tried; they just say it to sound 'ardcore.
Edited by Vladimir on Thursday 19th September 19:31
VeeFource said:
Could you elaborate on lacklustre delivery? Is it mostly the steering you suspect failed the car or did the engine play a big part too?
Turbo charging is something I'm quite weary of coming from a 328i, but I'd hoped if there were any cars out there then the M135i could have changed my mind. Reading this though I'm not so sure and makes me wonder what else to get next other than a GT86..
I really didn't notice the lack luster delivery - the engine was mighty from 4000rpm, all the way to redline. I don't think I could ever call that engine lack luster - are you sure they didn't sell you a 116d with a different badge? Turbo charging is something I'm quite weary of coming from a 328i, but I'd hoped if there were any cars out there then the M135i could have changed my mind. Reading this though I'm not so sure and makes me wonder what else to get next other than a GT86..
Of course I jest, you owned the car a lot longer than the short time I drove it, but I really didn't notice that - what engine would you say is much more exciting, in a hatch back, with the low engine torque to boot? Just curious...
I have 300 bhp, skinnier tyres, 430lbs ft and no LSD; I only trip the Traction light (unless it's fully off which is often) if I'm feeling naughty. And I bet the 1er has a much more advanced traction system than my soot chucking hearse.
However one thing I find extreme interesting about a proper M diff is that it's apparently very effective in snow. Can anyone confirm this?!
However one thing I find extreme interesting about a proper M diff is that it's apparently very effective in snow. Can anyone confirm this?!
General Zod said:
Top 3 reasons for disliking M135i seem to be:
Looks not to the majority's taste
Worries about people's perception of the driver
Does not look "quick" enough
All seem to be very... shallow (for want of a better word)
1. Fair point, everyone has different tastes, I personally think its a good looking car.Looks not to the majority's taste
Worries about people's perception of the driver
Does not look "quick" enough
All seem to be very... shallow (for want of a better word)
2. Really? Why would you REALLY care about what people think of you in your BMW. Have you said this because once upon a time Jeremy Clarkson said that BMW drivers are Cocks?
3. Isn't that part of its appeal to a lot of people?
Vladimir said:
I have 300 bhp, skinnier tyres, 430lbs ft and no LSD; I only trip the Traction light (unless it's fully off which is often) if I'm feeling naughty. And I bet the 1er has a much more advanced traction system than my soot chucking hearse.
However one thing I find extreme interesting about a proper M diff is that it's apparently very effective in snow. Can anyone confirm this?!
Do you have carpet under the pedals? If you gave it any sort of poke over a damp road with 300 bhp on skinnier tyres, it would lose traction. However one thing I find extreme interesting about a proper M diff is that it's apparently very effective in snow. Can anyone confirm this?!
The amount of power that the road legal rubber can put on the tarmac is limited - no matter what car you drive.
The only exception is very linear power delivery engines, so unless you are driving a silky smooth V8 I can't see how it's possible.
okie592 said:
Why do pistonheads even bother reviewing this? Every car is going to inferior to the new darling of the ph world.
Next week they pit the m135i against a mk1 mx5. And then against a m5. Shame the m5 will loose on the base that it doesn't have a rear wiper and that makes it impractical
Stay tuned. It's about to get a lot tougher for the BMW... Next week they pit the m135i against a mk1 mx5. And then against a m5. Shame the m5 will loose on the base that it doesn't have a rear wiper and that makes it impractical
Dan
It mostly seems that people are put off by looks. Yet the Impreza sold rather well, as did the Evo. Both rather unattractive!
I think the M-kite looks subtle (major plus point) but mildly purposeful. Not sure if its better or worse than our near Q car 335d but I'm 99% certain it will be even more fun to drive.
I think the M-kite looks subtle (major plus point) but mildly purposeful. Not sure if its better or worse than our near Q car 335d but I'm 99% certain it will be even more fun to drive.
Dan Trent said:
DibblyDobbler said:
What do undersquare and oversquare mean please ?
If the bore and stroke are the same they're square, if the bore is greater it's over and if the stroke is longer it's under. Generally speaking the more oversquare the engine the revvier and more peaky it'll be, an undersquare engine more torquey but less happy with high revs. That's a sweeping generalisation and there are exceptions but the general pattern is illustrated in the characters of these two particular engines. There's a lot more to it than that of course but Audi, traditionally, favours undersquare engines (as told to me by an engineer on an RS launch) and the EA888 2.0 turbo in the S3 was developed by them IIRC. Even the V10 in the R8 is undersquare but, just to prove it's not black and white, isn't shy of a few revs.
Cheers!
Dan
New Scot said:
For the price of half a shed (source Audi's UK website):
The Audi S3 comes with a choice of two keys: the remote control key (standard) or the advanced key (optional).
The remote control key – convenient and practical
Locks and unlocks the doors, windows, luggage compartment and tank filler flap at the press of a button
Locks and unlocks the boot separately
The advanced key – the key you can keep in your pocket
The optional Audi S3 advanced key allows you to keep the key in your pocket all the time. The doors unlock automatically when you approach the car and you can start the engine simply by pressing the start/stop button in the centre console.
Value???
The same type of key that i have for FREE on my Renault and my Citroen. The Citroen key can have a USB connection and load app's on it including Satnav that you can use in some other cars just by plugging in the USB.The Audi S3 comes with a choice of two keys: the remote control key (standard) or the advanced key (optional).
The remote control key – convenient and practical
Locks and unlocks the doors, windows, luggage compartment and tank filler flap at the press of a button
Locks and unlocks the boot separately
The advanced key – the key you can keep in your pocket
The optional Audi S3 advanced key allows you to keep the key in your pocket all the time. The doors unlock automatically when you approach the car and you can start the engine simply by pressing the start/stop button in the centre console.
Value???
Audi would charge 2000 for that
t. Lots of cars suffer from this, unless you've got 991 GT3 money, then it's a bit less sokie592 said:
Why do pistonheads even bother reviewing this? Every car is going to inferior to the new darling of the ph world.
Next week they pit the m135i against a mk1 mx5. And then against a m5. Shame the m5 will loose on the base that it doesn't have a rear wiper and that makes it impractical
If you don't like it then don't read the article! It should be obvious from reading the thread that there's lots of us that do though so please don't spoil it for the rest of us, no one's forcing you to read it..Next week they pit the m135i against a mk1 mx5. And then against a m5. Shame the m5 will loose on the base that it doesn't have a rear wiper and that makes it impractical
(PS Don't mean to be pernickety but it's 'lose' not 'loose' ..oh lordy I've become a corrector!
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