RE: BMW M135i vs Audi S3
Discussion
Pixelpeep said:
new small hatchback that returns 30mpg around town vs used, out of warranty massive saloon that can barely manage 12mpg
Yeh, cos that makes sense.
Always amazes me that people ever bring up fuel economy as an argument for buying a new car over an old one. Save £500 in fuel a year whilst losing several thousand in depreciationYeh, cos that makes sense.
Vladimir said:
Mike Roberts said:
BMW have confirmed an LSD is an option from next spring, and retro-fittable to all M135is.
All e-PAS is s
t. Lots of cars suffer from this, unless you've got 991 GT3 money, then it's a bit less st.
Really? That's sbout when we plan to get one. Hmmmm...All e-PAS is s
t. Lots of cars suffer from this, unless you've got 991 GT3 money, then it's a bit less st. Mike Roberts said:
To be fair, with it in Sport+ the setting on the e-LSD that activates is pretty good - certainly a million times better than the system in my old 135i, but I'd probably still retro-fit the M-Performance one.
I was very impressed with a vid of an M3 coping with a snowy slope a while back. So if a proper M diff was available, I'd have it.LMAO +1
Or could wait for the M235i, I am definitely NOT sold on the 1 series look, and don't think I would ever would be.
Or could wait for the M235i, I am definitely NOT sold on the 1 series look, and don't think I would ever would be.
Smitters said:
This is so massively frustrating to me. The BMW is an impressive car, but it looks hideous (personal preference fine, but important). The Audi is, well, £40k plus. No. Just no. I won't paste pointless links to various Audis in the classifieds, but if I had £40k to drop on an Audi, it wouldn't be on a brand new A3. R8? RS4?
Lift the Audi shell off and drop it over the BM please. Problem then solved.
Lift the Audi shell off and drop it over the BM please. Problem then solved.
Amirhussain said:
1. Fair point, everyone has different tastes, I personally think its a good looking car.
2. Really? Why would you REALLY care about what people think of you in your BMW. Have you said this because once upon a time Jeremy Clarkson said that BMW drivers are Cocks?
3. Isn't that part of its appeal to a lot of people?
parrot whoosh2. Really? Why would you REALLY care about what people think of you in your BMW. Have you said this because once upon a time Jeremy Clarkson said that BMW drivers are Cocks?
3. Isn't that part of its appeal to a lot of people?
yup, with a name like pilchard the cat. Haven't had Pilchards for a while now to eat, hmmm...
pilchardthecat said:
So the BMW is great but hideous
The Audi is crap to drive by comparison and looks blingy
The Merc is ludicrously expensive... and also hideous ... and blingy if you put the silly aero pack on it
Maybe i'm getting old, but i've started saying things like "they don't make 'em like they used to"
The Audi is crap to drive by comparison and looks blingy
The Merc is ludicrously expensive... and also hideous ... and blingy if you put the silly aero pack on it
Maybe i'm getting old, but i've started saying things like "they don't make 'em like they used to"
Bezza1969 said:
These pesky M135i's get in everywhere don't they! Yip, on paper and on dry roads, the Beemer seems to walk this one. Would be interesting however to revisit this test in a few months time when the roads are slippery. I've seen a few articles, particularly in EVO which weren't that flattering about the M135i's wet weather ability. The S3 on the other hand...
I haven't seen any negative articles about the M135i being particularly unflattering about its wet handling. It has huge traction through the Supersports despite the lack of LSD (sorry Vladimir, I agree with you on that one). Better still it is extremely predictable in the wet on the limit of lateral adhesion (remember it's set up to understeer, even under smooth application of power). Obviously you can get it sideways by using the throttle as an on/off switch but the beauty of RWD front engine being that the progressive loss of traction is very safe and controlable, unlike a 4wd which maybe be more tractable up to a point and then be much less predictable, and at a (slightly ) higher speed. For me the joy of driving comes from modulating the throttle well enough (occasionaly!) to stay just within the limits of traction, not let a 4wd system do the the work for me. I have more (safe) fun in the winter than in the summer. If I need high traction in the winter... I use winter tyres...Based on the last S3 (I owned a 8P and drove its successor several times) it's not like the 4wd helps much, slow as it is to react.
I remember Harris' RS3 vs M135i being in the damp, but I might be wrong.
General Zod said:
Top 3 reasons for disliking M135i seem to be:
Looks not to the majority's taste
Worries about people's perception of the driver
Does not look "quick" enough
All seem to be very... shallow (for want of a better word)
How can not liking the way it looks be described as "shallow"? You either like something or you don't, in this case, I don't - that doesn't make me, or the many others who think it looks crap, shallow.Looks not to the majority's taste
Worries about people's perception of the driver
Does not look "quick" enough
All seem to be very... shallow (for want of a better word)
pilchardthecat said:
Wolands Advocate said:
pilchardthecat said:
Ian_C said:
.... Never seen the point in keyless myself, nowt wrong with pressing a button to unlock the car, or sticking a key in an ignition.
For the Melvin Udalls of the population, who have to triple check that they locked the car, then go back and unlock it and lock it again..... then go back and try the door handle just to make sure - keyless entry is an OCD nightmare. How would you ever even know???!!!That is, assuming that keyless access allows you to lock the car yourself...
So, you walk up to the car with the key in your pocket, and it unlocks as you touch the inside of the door handle.
Get in, close the door, press the start button, job done.
Get where you want to be, get out, touch the outside of the door handle, hear the beep, it's locked.
Great if you can't be arsed to dig your key out of your pocket. Better still if you have bags of shopping - walk up to the boot, reach for the boot release, it unlocks. No faffing around trying to dig your key out to press a button.
You can't lock the key insode the car, either, it won't let you.
It's a feature that sounds pretty crap until you try it, then you realise it's actually very convenient and nice to use. 425 notes is robbery though, it's about the same in $ in the US.
Axionknight said:
How can not liking the way it looks be described as "shallow"? You either like something or you don't, in this case, I don't - that doesn't make me, or the many others who think it looks crap, shallow.
Maybe its the focus being more on appearance than what really matters in a performance car. That is what i mean by shallow
There's various sensors for the system throughout the car, including inside the boot and the doors. From the 'position' of the key as detected by more than one sensor, the system knows the key is inside or outside the car.
There's some amusing accounts on the Audi forums of people trying to lock the boot with the key in the car - much flashing of lights and so on, with furious drivers trying repeatedly to lock it...before realsing they've left the key in the bag they're trying to lock away safely...
It's a nice system, even the valet and emergency keys are well thought out. I can't imagine the Audi version differs greatly from any other manufacturers', though.
There's some amusing accounts on the Audi forums of people trying to lock the boot with the key in the car - much flashing of lights and so on, with furious drivers trying repeatedly to lock it...before realsing they've left the key in the bag they're trying to lock away safely...
It's a nice system, even the valet and emergency keys are well thought out. I can't imagine the Audi version differs greatly from any other manufacturers', though.
Lowtimer said:
nickfrog said:
Based on the last S3 (I owned a 8P and drove its successor several times)
What is an 8P?Vladimir said:
However one thing I find extreme interesting about a proper M diff is that it's apparently very effective in snow. Can anyone confirm this?!
I have owned a 330d & 520d without the M diff & a Z4M & currently a E92 M3 with the M diff & believe me they perform well in the snow in comparision to not having one & I appreciate i am not very hardcore anymore as I've ditched my exciting TVR for boring beemers...you have to make the best of a bad job! I personally think a LSD does make a difference having owned four RWD cars now with a LSD but I still respect the M135i as a package regardless & if Beemer are to offer a LSD in the future to non M cars then I think that's a real benefit.
4wdrift said:
Just sold my M135i (manual).
After 6 months of ownership, I cannot say that I loved it.
Certainly enjoyed my previous car - a 130i much more than the M135i (even with the 130i's bouncy ride).
The M135i just didn't engage me! Never turned back to look at the car, nor had an exciting 'back road' drive in it.
Was very quick (esp. mid range) but lacklustre delivery.
Hated the steering - no feel, comfort setting excessively light, sport artificially heavy. Didn't have the confidence to accurately place the car quickly on narrow, twisty roads. My main criticism with the car.
Had adaptive suspension and that is an overhyped 'must have option' - comfort lacked discipline at even low speeds, excessive roll.
The standard M sport suspension would of been fine I think. Certainly would not have constant knocking sound that more and more people with adaptive suspended cars are reporting.
The thought that the car is getting face-lifted soon, better looking M235i (yes, I know it's not a hatchback) will be here soon enough, prompted a sale of a car that hasn't yet dropped precipitously in price.
Should of bought the used 997 Carrera manual that I originally planned to..
I agree with all of the above.After 6 months of ownership, I cannot say that I loved it.
Certainly enjoyed my previous car - a 130i much more than the M135i (even with the 130i's bouncy ride).
The M135i just didn't engage me! Never turned back to look at the car, nor had an exciting 'back road' drive in it.
Was very quick (esp. mid range) but lacklustre delivery.
Hated the steering - no feel, comfort setting excessively light, sport artificially heavy. Didn't have the confidence to accurately place the car quickly on narrow, twisty roads. My main criticism with the car.
Had adaptive suspension and that is an overhyped 'must have option' - comfort lacked discipline at even low speeds, excessive roll.
The standard M sport suspension would of been fine I think. Certainly would not have constant knocking sound that more and more people with adaptive suspended cars are reporting.
The thought that the car is getting face-lifted soon, better looking M235i (yes, I know it's not a hatchback) will be here soon enough, prompted a sale of a car that hasn't yet dropped precipitously in price.
Should of bought the used 997 Carrera manual that I originally planned to..
I've just got out of my M135 of similar spec and in manual gise....it did everything you mentioned. The traction became ridiculous when the roads became damp / wet which let's face it we get mostly in the UK.It was nervous on the limit but if you were happy to run the risk it would give some big slides.Not everyones cup of tea and expensive on tyres!!
I felt mine definitely needed a diff and my neighbour thought I'd bought a 120d until I started it.These new breed of cars are very subtle with little to separate models.
I wouldn't want to run the M135 with anymore power with 2WD. There is no diff option on them either.
I've run an RS4 previously which IMO especially in B7 form is a better value ownership for the performance on offer. I had a Golf R running 360 bhp with a Haldex controller and this was a much quicker point to point car in all conditions compared to M135 and inspired confidence in all conditions on UK roads.
Both these car's will be nice second hand purchases but I wouldn't pay £30k+ for either. I'm sure the S3 will outgun the M135 on a APR/REVO remap and will leave the M135 for dust on a typical winter's day and will be equally quick in the dry.
New Golf R is essentially an S3.
Edited by Msportman on Thursday 19th September 23:09
Edited by Msportman on Thursday 19th September 23:10
Edited by Msportman on Thursday 19th September 23:11
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