Surprisingly quick cars
Discussion
I don't really want to flame the war but I'd find it very difficult to keep up with some Merk in my GTS-T. You can go to 400-450bhp reliably on stock internals with the GTS-T's (that's what I have read, happy to be corrected). Throw in some corners and I'm sure I could see the merk for longer but it'd have to be really twisty, so Touge anyone? 
I do find it strange though that Skyline's are talked about, with the possible exception of the 2.0 N/A's they were all very quick in their day (possibly they are now, stock GTS-t's are 6.18 0-60mph as an arbitrary measure) and I don't see their relevance to this thread.
To get more on point, I failed to keep up with some low spec Sierra (defo was with those rubber spoilers & soft springs) who was absolutely flying down an a-road and carrying so much speed it was ridiculous, surprising as I didn't think it would be that quick.
I do find it strange though that Skyline's are talked about, with the possible exception of the 2.0 N/A's they were all very quick in their day (possibly they are now, stock GTS-t's are 6.18 0-60mph as an arbitrary measure) and I don't see their relevance to this thread.
To get more on point, I failed to keep up with some low spec Sierra (defo was with those rubber spoilers & soft springs) who was absolutely flying down an a-road and carrying so much speed it was ridiculous, surprising as I didn't think it would be that quick.
neil1jnr said:
C70R said:
Smokey32 said:
C70R said:
What a load of absolute twaddle. If an R33 Skyline (assuming GTSt or GTR) was even "mildly tuned" it would comfortably walk away from a 250bhp/tonne barge.
You either outdragged a standard car with a loud exhaust, or a "tuned" car that wasn't trying.
Are you for real? Have you watched a little bit too much of fast and furious? Whats mildly tuned to you? A R33 would need a serious amount of money spent on it to pull away from a S55 on a roll.You either outdragged a standard car with a loud exhaust, or a "tuned" car that wasn't trying.
Vin diesel yo!
Do you not like/understand maths?
So this ridiculous argument from you has stemmed from your different understand of 'highly tuned' from the OP's. In any case, a 500bhp supercharged V8 barge is more than likely going to pull away from an R33 north of 100mph, even if the R33 has a better power to weight ratio.
I would expect the S55 to easily pull away from my Evo (280is bhp/tonne) north of 100mph. I am surprised how you can't see that the Merc could be quicker.
selym said:
Wills2 said:
Legally travel any faster? Are you one of those self appointed lane 3 mobile road blocks? If so stop it you'll cause an accident.
Don't be silly. Although the speed limit is arbitrary it is still a speed limit, set down by law. Do I adhere to it? No, but I'm aware that it is there so that when I get pulled at a speed over and above that legal limit, I can't come on here and bleat about it.Wills2 said:
selym said:
Wills2 said:
Legally travel any faster? Are you one of those self appointed lane 3 mobile road blocks? If so stop it you'll cause an accident.
Don't be silly. Although the speed limit is arbitrary it is still a speed limit, set down by law. Do I adhere to it? No, but I'm aware that it is there so that when I get pulled at a speed over and above that legal limit, I can't come on here and bleat about it.selym said:
Wills2 said:
selym said:
Wills2 said:
Legally travel any faster? Are you one of those self appointed lane 3 mobile road blocks? If so stop it you'll cause an accident.
Don't be silly. Although the speed limit is arbitrary it is still a speed limit, set down by law. Do I adhere to it? No, but I'm aware that it is there so that when I get pulled at a speed over and above that legal limit, I can't come on here and bleat about it.Is 70mph when the speedo needle is resting exactly on 70? We all "know" that speedos underread by some amount, so is it actually at 73 or 77? Do we all know what that amount is in our cars? If I'm going at (or wanting to go at) a true 70mph, chances are I'm going to be held up by someone who sits with the needle on 70.
TameRacingDriver said:
Krobar said:
The surprisingly quick ones always seemed to me to have a bit too much for the chassis. 93 Viggen and Clio V6 come to mind.
A Clio v6, seriously? It blatantly looks look like it should be fast, but really isn't all that fast. I think you've got the wrong thread xRIEx said:
When driving, does everyone know exactly how fast they're travelling (absolutely or in relation to the speed limit)?
Is 70mph when the speedo needle is resting exactly on 70? We all "know" that speedos underread by some amount, so is it actually at 73 or 77? Do we all know what that amount is in our cars? If I'm going at (or wanting to go at) a true 70mph, chances are I'm going to be held up by someone who sits with the needle on 70.
Desperate times call for desperate figures. Indicated speed against true speed and the difference of three miles an hour? Something tells me you should worry about yourself and not how the guy in fronts clock is reading under or over. Is 70mph when the speedo needle is resting exactly on 70? We all "know" that speedos underread by some amount, so is it actually at 73 or 77? Do we all know what that amount is in our cars? If I'm going at (or wanting to go at) a true 70mph, chances are I'm going to be held up by someone who sits with the needle on 70.
You are getting too het up over this.
The Megane GT220 Tourer.
Looks like a regular Diesel Megane Estate, has 220hp, and the engine from the RS engined cars.
Dons flame suit, The transit I drove had a lot more torque than I was expecting from such a big err.. van. I was expecting it to be dogs
t slow, but it shifted remarkably easily.
For the record:
Over 100hp Power to weight doesn't play as much as a part as aerodynamics and raw power, So I can believe that the S55 will pull on a Skyline, even a breathed on one like suggested.
Looks like a regular Diesel Megane Estate, has 220hp, and the engine from the RS engined cars.
Dons flame suit, The transit I drove had a lot more torque than I was expecting from such a big err.. van. I was expecting it to be dogs
t slow, but it shifted remarkably easily. For the record:
Over 100hp Power to weight doesn't play as much as a part as aerodynamics and raw power, So I can believe that the S55 will pull on a Skyline, even a breathed on one like suggested.
neil1jnr said:
The OP only mentioned 'highly tuned', he may have been mistaken, an exhaust, BOV and intercooler and map you are looking at what 400bhp on the GTR, maybe less, maybe standard boost pressure (mods assumed based on how it sounded)?
So this ridiculous argument from you has stemmed from your different understand of 'highly tuned' from the OP's. In any case, a 500bhp supercharged V8 barge is more than likely going to pull away from an R33 north of 100mph, even if the R33 has a better power to weight ratio.
I would expect the S55 to easily pull away from my Evo (280is bhp/tonne) north of 100mph. I am surprised how you can't see that the Merc could be quicker.
If we're talking about a R33 GTR with the factory boost restrictor removed and a cat-back exhaust, they will put out 360-380 horses.So this ridiculous argument from you has stemmed from your different understand of 'highly tuned' from the OP's. In any case, a 500bhp supercharged V8 barge is more than likely going to pull away from an R33 north of 100mph, even if the R33 has a better power to weight ratio.
I would expect the S55 to easily pull away from my Evo (280is bhp/tonne) north of 100mph. I am surprised how you can't see that the Merc could be quicker.
A re-map or Mines ECU will bring it up to 400 horses @ 6800 + RPM
The above is not what you call a highly-tuned car, and against a 2000 kg automatic Mercedes, nether car would 'easily' pull away over 100 mph unless something odd happens or the driver lifts off.
A "highly tuned GTR" implies uprated turbochargers or larger single turbocharging, fuel pump and injector upgrade and an Apexi Power FC for engine management as a minimum. 500-600 Horses for a daily drive GTR.
Is it reasonable to say that 'electric cars in general' would be a legitimate answer (or at least soon will be) to such a thread?
Possibly because relatively few PHers/ normal people have actually driven one yet?
More because of the 'surprisingly' bit than anything else (if you've never driven an electric car, think about what you currently anticipate the performance will 'feel' like- I admit that perhaps naively I still expect to be thoroughly underwhelmed in comparison to internal combustion cars).
I mean I've read the performance specs of many unremarkable electric cars, and they're not objectively that 'fast' on paper (or iPad). Yet I know a day will come in the not too distant future where I'm given a non-sporty electric car and will (likely with some reluctance) think 'this is the future'. I imagine throttle response and not having to think about where the torque is in the rev range naturally lends itself to being 'surprised' particularly when used to exclusively turbos or NAs requiring higher revs.
I for one lament the demise/ inevitable decline of the internal combustion engine, but suspect that even if 'electric cars' are not the answer just yet, they increasingly will at least feature more heavily in threads such as this, and will do so sooner than we might (like to?) think.
We're at a point where many cars will be released with both internal combustion and fully electric options, and inevitably there will come a time when choosing 'the engine' will seem just as left-field, bold (and possibly ill-advised) a choice as when people opt for eg. huge-engined V8/V12 saloons when perfectly acceptable, smaller and more 'shrewd' power units are available in the same model.
'You've bought a PETROL? Don't see many non-electric *insert model name*s anymore! Nice to see someone keeping it old-school!'
Wonder just how 'hackable'/ easy to performance mod mainstream electric cars will become? Given how often we hear about (and perhaps more significantly DONT hear about) major multi-national companies being hacked by teenagers, it seems daft to suspect that 'hacking' your electric cars performance will not be viable. We're already reading stories about hackers being able to bypass some current cars' security systems- what will these guys be able to achieve with their own cars as time goes on?
Can you imagine a more 'surprisingly quick' scenario than going to test drive a used electric car as a sensible daily and discovering that the owner (or more likely their son/ daughter) has downloaded an extra hundred horses/ torques? Perhaps the tuning problems of the future will be that chassis/ suspension/ brakes/ tyres won't be able to cope with the too-easy-to-turn-up leccy power units?
You'll even be able to make your mundane daily electric sound 'surprisingly quick'- just download the Ultimate exhaust/ engine pack™. Your near-silent electric Toyota can now sound like an old JGTC Supra or LFA at the press of a touchscreen should the mood take you...
Admittedly Ive strayed wildly off-topic (and I've never even driven an electric car!), but this is how I think things might develop- when you can simply 'turn up' the power on many cars, a lot of them will inevitably feel 'surprisingly quick'- perhaps to the point where our definition/ expectations of 'surprisingly quick' are fundamentally changed from our current primitive, smoggy, fossil fuel burning era.
Disclaimer; yes I know you can't just 'turn up' any electric car to infinity using a laptop. Every power unit has a limit in terms of what it can physically output (and the compromises and subsequent work-arounds for 'turning up' will be numerous- think of the bulky, high-capacity batteries on smartphones as an example). I do however believe that increasing the power of said units will be easier, quicker and cheaper in many cases than we can currently imagine.
Possibly because relatively few PHers/ normal people have actually driven one yet?
More because of the 'surprisingly' bit than anything else (if you've never driven an electric car, think about what you currently anticipate the performance will 'feel' like- I admit that perhaps naively I still expect to be thoroughly underwhelmed in comparison to internal combustion cars).
I mean I've read the performance specs of many unremarkable electric cars, and they're not objectively that 'fast' on paper (or iPad). Yet I know a day will come in the not too distant future where I'm given a non-sporty electric car and will (likely with some reluctance) think 'this is the future'. I imagine throttle response and not having to think about where the torque is in the rev range naturally lends itself to being 'surprised' particularly when used to exclusively turbos or NAs requiring higher revs.
I for one lament the demise/ inevitable decline of the internal combustion engine, but suspect that even if 'electric cars' are not the answer just yet, they increasingly will at least feature more heavily in threads such as this, and will do so sooner than we might (like to?) think.
We're at a point where many cars will be released with both internal combustion and fully electric options, and inevitably there will come a time when choosing 'the engine' will seem just as left-field, bold (and possibly ill-advised) a choice as when people opt for eg. huge-engined V8/V12 saloons when perfectly acceptable, smaller and more 'shrewd' power units are available in the same model.
'You've bought a PETROL? Don't see many non-electric *insert model name*s anymore! Nice to see someone keeping it old-school!'
Wonder just how 'hackable'/ easy to performance mod mainstream electric cars will become? Given how often we hear about (and perhaps more significantly DONT hear about) major multi-national companies being hacked by teenagers, it seems daft to suspect that 'hacking' your electric cars performance will not be viable. We're already reading stories about hackers being able to bypass some current cars' security systems- what will these guys be able to achieve with their own cars as time goes on?
Can you imagine a more 'surprisingly quick' scenario than going to test drive a used electric car as a sensible daily and discovering that the owner (or more likely their son/ daughter) has downloaded an extra hundred horses/ torques? Perhaps the tuning problems of the future will be that chassis/ suspension/ brakes/ tyres won't be able to cope with the too-easy-to-turn-up leccy power units?
You'll even be able to make your mundane daily electric sound 'surprisingly quick'- just download the Ultimate exhaust/ engine pack™. Your near-silent electric Toyota can now sound like an old JGTC Supra or LFA at the press of a touchscreen should the mood take you...
Admittedly Ive strayed wildly off-topic (and I've never even driven an electric car!), but this is how I think things might develop- when you can simply 'turn up' the power on many cars, a lot of them will inevitably feel 'surprisingly quick'- perhaps to the point where our definition/ expectations of 'surprisingly quick' are fundamentally changed from our current primitive, smoggy, fossil fuel burning era.
Disclaimer; yes I know you can't just 'turn up' any electric car to infinity using a laptop. Every power unit has a limit in terms of what it can physically output (and the compromises and subsequent work-arounds for 'turning up' will be numerous- think of the bulky, high-capacity batteries on smartphones as an example). I do however believe that increasing the power of said units will be easier, quicker and cheaper in many cases than we can currently imagine.
It's interesting to see diesel family cars turn up here. They often don't make all that much bhp but their big-bottom torque figures mean they give that easy rush without much effort. When you're driving 6/10ths they feel entirely adequate although they usually run out of puff quite soon, once the low range grunt has been expended.
One surprisingly quick car from a few years ago was the 2.0 LPT Volvo S60. Despite being the bottom of the range petrol engine, it made a good case for itself with 180bhp and a nice five cylinder noise. I found the low pressure turbo a real boon on the roads, it was very responsive and quick to spool. It didn't have oodles of top end grunt but it was very tractable and handled rather well so long as you kept the throttle balanced in the corners to keep the front tyres biting down.
Surprisingly quick though, or stupidly quick? Not cars, but supernaked bikes. I had a roll on recently with an S1000R. Got the and both accelerated hard up a hill. Despite being detuned over the S1000RR and 'only' making 160bhp, it took off like a rocketship. I was giving up about 30bhp at the rear wheel, which made a world of difference. I can't imagine how mental that must have felt for the rider on the BMW with minimal fairing. I was stuck down on my tank and tucked right in behind the fairing and I could still feel the wind dragging at my foot as I shifted!
One surprisingly quick car from a few years ago was the 2.0 LPT Volvo S60. Despite being the bottom of the range petrol engine, it made a good case for itself with 180bhp and a nice five cylinder noise. I found the low pressure turbo a real boon on the roads, it was very responsive and quick to spool. It didn't have oodles of top end grunt but it was very tractable and handled rather well so long as you kept the throttle balanced in the corners to keep the front tyres biting down.
Surprisingly quick though, or stupidly quick? Not cars, but supernaked bikes. I had a roll on recently with an S1000R. Got the and both accelerated hard up a hill. Despite being detuned over the S1000RR and 'only' making 160bhp, it took off like a rocketship. I was giving up about 30bhp at the rear wheel, which made a world of difference. I can't imagine how mental that must have felt for the rider on the BMW with minimal fairing. I was stuck down on my tank and tucked right in behind the fairing and I could still feel the wind dragging at my foot as I shifted!
Yes I know before the "usual replies" flood in. (330 Diesel)
I was lucky enough to own a slightly tuned E46 BMW M3 SMG cabriolet. I was told it had a slight engine tune (BMW Dealer) to provide the same engine performance of the hard top E46 CSL so as to match the normal hard top 0-60 times... whatever the reason it's the only E46 M3 I've owned so it's irrelevant.
It was a joy to drive and the seats were very comfortable. Had it for 3 years with no major issues and sold for a profit to a young Frenchman who lived in Paris and he and his mates all had BMW M cars in RHD as they were much cheaper than buying in France and the running costs in France were a lot cheaper than in the UK ! So much for the EU....
I drove it with gusto on the quiet rural roads I knew well and it was surprisingly quick on the right road but also surprisingly easy to go too fast.
However on a day to day drive it demanded too much restraint and concentration to use it's power on UK roads. Enjoy it too much and a meeting with some idiot on your side of the road or a close encounter with a curb or road side furniture/tree would be inevitable.
It was also a police magnet and even poodling about usually picked up a tail. One day I took my daughter and two friends to the local cinema that picked up a traffic car tail from a motorway bridge. With the roof down I was only doing about 60-65 on an empty motorway but the traffic car followed me 11 miles to the next junction, into town to the cinema, waited for me to drop the girls off and followed me all the way home again !
So although it's a brilliant car it was not actually one I drove quickly. Indeed my 320,000 miles original S reg 1.6 Zetec Focus was much quicker on the country roads and less obvious on the motorway. I generally drove this car at or above the speed limits and it was a joy to drive. A cross country journey would be quicker in the focus and the same on the motorways.
BUT more importantly I could feel like I was driving the focus and I would usually enjoy the drive just as much as I did in the M3.
330,000 miles and not a single speeding fine, warning or incident. I did however swap out the drivers seat with one from a GSi Vectra that was all day long comfortable.
Sadly kids uni fees meant the M3 was sold and the S reg Focus simply wore out. I did however get a 52 plate 1.6s Focus and now also have a 52 plate 2.0 Zetec Focus, both bought for under £350 each.. However they don't seem as sorted, light or grinningly raw as the old S reg original 1.6 Zetec that was one of the "quickest" real world cars I've owned and made me smile more than the RS2000 Customs (2), RS1800 MK2, MGB GT V8 Costello.
The only car that came close was the Vauxhall Carlton 3.2Ltr 24v Diamond Estate (DTM Homologation experiment) (Opel Omega Caravan) that was a very good Q car and quicker than my "work" V70R
I was lucky enough to own a slightly tuned E46 BMW M3 SMG cabriolet. I was told it had a slight engine tune (BMW Dealer) to provide the same engine performance of the hard top E46 CSL so as to match the normal hard top 0-60 times... whatever the reason it's the only E46 M3 I've owned so it's irrelevant.
It was a joy to drive and the seats were very comfortable. Had it for 3 years with no major issues and sold for a profit to a young Frenchman who lived in Paris and he and his mates all had BMW M cars in RHD as they were much cheaper than buying in France and the running costs in France were a lot cheaper than in the UK ! So much for the EU....
I drove it with gusto on the quiet rural roads I knew well and it was surprisingly quick on the right road but also surprisingly easy to go too fast.
However on a day to day drive it demanded too much restraint and concentration to use it's power on UK roads. Enjoy it too much and a meeting with some idiot on your side of the road or a close encounter with a curb or road side furniture/tree would be inevitable.
It was also a police magnet and even poodling about usually picked up a tail. One day I took my daughter and two friends to the local cinema that picked up a traffic car tail from a motorway bridge. With the roof down I was only doing about 60-65 on an empty motorway but the traffic car followed me 11 miles to the next junction, into town to the cinema, waited for me to drop the girls off and followed me all the way home again !
So although it's a brilliant car it was not actually one I drove quickly. Indeed my 320,000 miles original S reg 1.6 Zetec Focus was much quicker on the country roads and less obvious on the motorway. I generally drove this car at or above the speed limits and it was a joy to drive. A cross country journey would be quicker in the focus and the same on the motorways.
BUT more importantly I could feel like I was driving the focus and I would usually enjoy the drive just as much as I did in the M3.
330,000 miles and not a single speeding fine, warning or incident. I did however swap out the drivers seat with one from a GSi Vectra that was all day long comfortable.
Sadly kids uni fees meant the M3 was sold and the S reg Focus simply wore out. I did however get a 52 plate 1.6s Focus and now also have a 52 plate 2.0 Zetec Focus, both bought for under £350 each.. However they don't seem as sorted, light or grinningly raw as the old S reg original 1.6 Zetec that was one of the "quickest" real world cars I've owned and made me smile more than the RS2000 Customs (2), RS1800 MK2, MGB GT V8 Costello.
The only car that came close was the Vauxhall Carlton 3.2Ltr 24v Diamond Estate (DTM Homologation experiment) (Opel Omega Caravan) that was a very good Q car and quicker than my "work" V70R
9vienna9 said:
I had an AX GT back in the day which despite only having 85hp would stay with my mate's XR2i and would keep up with many a "proper" hot hatch
Weighed about the same as a paper bag.
That's because XR2is are not a good car ,a luke warm hatch at best.Weighed about the same as a paper bag.
Only 105 BHP I believe in the 1600 CVH version and handling like a jelly also weighed more than your AX.
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