RE: Smart Roadster Coupe: Spotted

[Kolbenkopp]

300bhp/ton said:

If you get your car mapped get the rev limiter increased to 6300rpm. You'll rarely hit it by accident any longer. If you think you will, just back off the throttle and hold a steady rpm rather than WOT. Personally I'd do the same in a normal manual, or shift up. Don't really see the need to bounce it off the limiter.

Also when mapped, you'll find you can likely use a gear higher than you would have. Meaning far less likely to need to change gear.

Never driven a mapped one, sounds worth doing + good idea to give it a few more RPM. Sure there's no need in bouncing it off the limiter, that's basically driver error but it happens and I would have liked it to behave differently.

Some day I'd like to get one. Currently plotting to get one as a replacement for Lady Kolbenkopp's Smart 451 .

Edited by Kolbenkopp on Friday 4th October 16:44

[bobfather]

300bhp/ton said:

Kolbenkopp said:

Alternatively, there are a replacement sumps available. This one even saves a bit of weight (plastic).

http://www.trailer-fuer-smart.de/neue-smart-olwann...

As to the gear box, while I'm not a big fan of it in the roadster, one does get used to it. Biggest criticism for me is that it goes up a gear instead of bouncing on the limiter, even in "manual" mode. This can leave you with the thing starting to shift while doing an overtake etc, which is not so nice.

Actually the oil extraction pump works very well.

I agree, I'd never used and oil extractor until I got my Roadster. So much nicer, no oil hot pouring over my fingers when I'm undoing the sump plug. I now use the extractor on all seven of my cars, even the TVR however I do remove the plug on the TVR after the oil is out because it has a tell-tale magnet on it.

[300bhp/ton]

Kolbenkopp said:

Never driven a mapped one, sounds worth doing + good idea to give it a few more RPM. Sure there's no need in bouncing it off the limiter, that's basically driver error but it happens and I would have liked it to behave differently.

Some day I'd like to get one. Currently plotting to get one as a replacement for Lady Kolbenkopp's Smart 451 .

Edited by Kolbenkopp on Friday 4th October 16:44

I would say if it's a weekend or occasional use car, I'm convinced a VX220 or an S1 Elise are better sports cars, without a shadow of a doubt.

Although you can pick up an early Roadster for quite a bit less money.

However what the Roadster manages to do, is be almost as fun to drive as a VX220 (only slower) but be far more liveable than either the VX or the Elise. It has easy to access usable boot space (you can get an entire trolley load of shopping in). And getting in and out of the car is easy as anything, unlike an S1 Elise with the roof on. Even if you need to wear a suit for work.

The heater is good too and noise levels are not unacceptable for high speed work.

Basically using one every day is no more hardship than driving a Ford Fiesta every day, only a lot more fun and better on fuel.

[Skater12]

chickenboxprick said:

http://www.motorfizz.com/motor?t=Vauxhall-Omega-2....

havent seen one for ages, then one parks next to me! forgot how tiny they are.

Edited by chickenboxprick on Friday 4th October 15:51

And you thought the smart looked small compared to an Omega!
How about an Autozam compared to a tiny mazda!

[Agent Orange]

Ultimate AZ-1?

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/meet-the-greddy-v...

[General Zod]

300bhp/ton said:

And the gearbox is fine. It response instantly on up shifts and almost as quick on down shifts. The actual time to change gear is similar to how long it'd take you to change gear in an early TVR Chimera.

Just read this gem. I've owned both and this is just rubbish.

[300bhp/ton]

General Zod said:

300bhp/ton said:

And the gearbox is fine. It response instantly on up shifts and almost as quick on down shifts. The actual time to change gear is similar to how long it'd take you to change gear in an early TVR Chimera.

Just read this gem. I've owned both and this is just rubbish.

Why is it rubbish? The early Chims use the Rover/Leyland LT-77 transmission. This is not a speedy gearbox and to keep it alive you are better off with a slight pause midway between shifts (speak to Ian Ashcroft of Ashcroft transmissions is you seek proof).

I also own two LT-77's, one mated to a Rover V8 and the other in a Discovery. And while you can abuse the box and shift quicker, most of the time you won't be.

[Mr2Mike]

300bhp/ton said:

You completely sure on the ratios, as in final drive, tyre size as well as internal gear ratios?

I never knew a CTR needed 4th gear to hit 60mph, the Roadster does.

That's because the Roadster has a 6000RPM red line and the Civic goes up to 8000 RPM (8250 rev limit). The overall gearing is surprisingly similar, and if you change gear in the Civic at the Smart red line RPM, then the Civic does (just) need 4th gear to hit 60.

However no-one actually mentioned overall gearing. You suggested that the gear ratios were so close on the Smart that an H gate pattern change would be annoying to use as you'd be constantly shifting gears. I'm saying that it wouldn't be much different to a Type R.

e.g. if you are pottering around and changing gear at 3000 RPM, the drop in RPM at each gear change would be:

Gear	EP3	Smart
1-2	1043	822
2-3	863	704
3-4	732	634
4-5	591	822
5-6	596	704

The EP3's ratios are a little wider than the Smart's in the first few gears and then become closer, but overall they aren't far apart. Coming from a 'normal' car the EP3s ratios feel extremely close but you quickly get used to them, and with an H gate box you can easily skip ratios (the Civic will happily skip every other gear and still provide reasonably brisk acceleration).

[300bhp/ton]

Mr2Mike said:

That's because the Roadster has a 6000RPM red line and the Civic goes up to 8000 RPM (8250 rev limit). The overall gearing is surprisingly similar, and if you change gear in the Civic at the Smart red line RPM, then the Civic does (just) need 4th gear to hit 60.

However no-one actually mentioned overall gearing. You suggested that the gear ratios were so close on the Smart that an H gate pattern change would be annoying to use as you'd be constantly shifting gears. I'm saying that it wouldn't be much different to a Type R.

e.g. if you are pottering around and changing gear at 3000 RPM, the drop in RPM at each gear change would be:

Gear	EP3	Smart
1-2	1043	822
2-3	863	704
3-4	732	634
4-5	591	822
5-6	596	704

The EP3's ratios are a little wider than the Smart's in the first few gears and then become closer, but overall they aren't far apart. Coming from a 'normal' car the EP3s ratios feel extremely close but you quickly get used to them, and with an H gate box you can easily skip ratios (the Civic will happily skip every other gear and still provide reasonably brisk acceleration).

Thanks for the info.

Although due to the fact you don't get boost until 3000rpm, the lower rev limit and the fact they are different. You generally are changing gear all the time in the smart, which is actually part of the fun of driving them. But I think it would be tedious with a H gate and actually detract from the vehicle.

[Degner]

Mr2Mike said:

and with an H gate box you can easily skip ratios

That is a good (and key) point.

[DMN]

300bhp/ton said:

Mr2Mike said:

That's because the Roadster has a 6000RPM red line and the Civic goes up to 8000 RPM (8250 rev limit). The overall gearing is surprisingly similar, and if you change gear in the Civic at the Smart red line RPM, then the Civic does (just) need 4th gear to hit 60.

However no-one actually mentioned overall gearing. You suggested that the gear ratios were so close on the Smart that an H gate pattern change would be annoying to use as you'd be constantly shifting gears. I'm saying that it wouldn't be much different to a Type R.

e.g. if you are pottering around and changing gear at 3000 RPM, the drop in RPM at each gear change would be:

Gear	EP3	Smart
1-2	1043	822
2-3	863	704
3-4	732	634
4-5	591	822
5-6	596	704

The EP3's ratios are a little wider than the Smart's in the first few gears and then become closer, but overall they aren't far apart. Coming from a 'normal' car the EP3s ratios feel extremely close but you quickly get used to them, and with an H gate box you can easily skip ratios (the Civic will happily skip every other gear and still provide reasonably brisk acceleration).

Thanks for the info.

Although due to the fact you don't get boost until 3000rpm, the lower rev limit and the fact they are different. You generally are changing gear all the time in the smart, which is actually part of the fun of driving them. But I think it would be tedious with a H gate and actually detract from the vehicle.

Very interesting info indeed. As a driver of both, I do find them similar up untill a point re: gearing. However the actual driving experience of both is very different. In the Smart I can stay safe (and legal) pushing on at 8/10ths for 90% of the time. In the EP3 7/10ths feels on the brisk side of illegal. So much so that it does not "feel" as if I need to be pushing on that hard to maintain progress. Then of course they are different cars and the Smart surrenders 40bhp/tonne over the EP3 (121 versus 163 by my calculations*), it does though have more torque (171nm/tonne versus 161nm/tonne) and it kicks in (yo!) 2,000 revs before the VTEC does.

• my Smart is remapped and I've not be able to find a consistent curb weight for the EP3.

[Skater12]

Agent Orange said:

Ultimate AZ-1?

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/meet-the-greddy-v...

There's a highly modified one in Brighton that i've seen around a few times.
Doesn't look too far from this, though the headlights are standard and the wheels are gold.
Apparently it's running a Hayabusa + turbo with over 300bhp.

It's so small it's almost silly, but still so damn cool!

[Malachimon]

I own one of these and right now, in 2013, I'd say its possibly the best time to get one. They are rarer than all of its competitors and in my opinion better looking too, even the Elise isn't as pretty or exclusive. It's cheap to run and I admit it may not be the most refined car, it's not terrible either. It's not exactly a Chrysler PT.

It also sounds nice for its sized engine, quick around corners and more practical than you might imagine. Me and my father went to Yorkshire this march when the snow came in for 5 days and it carried us, our luggage AND supplies pretty well. Only things it can't do is outrun cars with bigger engines or kick-down very fast.

[heebeegeetee]

Jenson Button drives one, apparently.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/motoring/cropley-ca...

[pingu393]

bobfather said:

300bhp/ton said:

Kolbenkopp said:

Alternatively, there are a replacement sumps available. This one even saves a bit of weight (plastic).

http://www.trailer-fuer-smart.de/neue-smart-olwann...

As to the gear box, while I'm not a big fan of it in the roadster, one does get used to it. Biggest criticism for me is that it goes up a gear instead of bouncing on the limiter, even in "manual" mode. This can leave you with the thing starting to shift while doing an overtake etc, which is not so nice.

Actually the oil extraction pump works very well.

I agree, I'd never used and oil extractor until I got my Roadster. So much nicer, no oil hot pouring over my fingers when I'm undoing the sump plug. I now use the extractor on all seven of my cars, even the TVR however I do remove the plug on the TVR after the oil is out because it has a tell-tale magnet on it.

I always removed the sump when I did an oil change. You would be surprised just how much oil was left behind by the suction pump.

5 litres of Mobil 1 = £30
1x Oil Filter = £5
1x Air Filter = £11
1x Fuel Filter = £10
6x Spark Plugs = £15

£450 means that £380 was labour charges.

Mine was a 450 "ForTwo", but I'd be surprised if the prices are much different for the roadster.

[Smart Alec]

pingu393 said:

I always removed the sump when I did an oil change. You would be surprised just how much oil was left behind by the suction pump.

5 litres of Mobil 1 = £30
1x Oil Filter = £5
1x Air Filter = £11
1x Fuel Filter = £10
6x Spark Plugs = £15

£450 means that £380 was labour charges.

Mine was a 450 "ForTwo", but I'd be surprised if the prices are much different for the roadster.

Er, there really shouldn't be any oil left behind, and there normally isn't any in my experience.

If the correct sealant has been used then removing the sump is not an easy job (there is no gasket) and it takes a right pull to separate the sump from the block.

I am a complete convert to this method of oil changing. The only time any sludge is left behind is when the engine really has missed a hell of a lot of oil changes, in which case there will be sludge and deposit all through the engine - it definitely doesn't all drop to the sump.

I would expect the cost of service you mention to be about 2.5 times less than you quote.

[Vince70]

From memory the last time I took my old roadster in for a service with plugs it was about £300 at the merc dealer..
And I had the basic service done from an independent at £150 once the warranty was out.

But I'm a pela pump convert and it makes for a cheap hassle free oil change.. All I know is my car is meant to only have approx 3 litres in the sump and 3 litres came out..

And when I bought My current car it was a serious amount of crud in the engine due to lack of oil changes and all I did was give it more oil changes ( 2 a year approximately every 3000) and it's now back to where it should be..

I buy my oil when it's on special offer and stock up so it normally works out at only £10 per oil change.

I don't have my Roadster anymore as I sold it on piston heads about 5/6 years ago..
I never had any issues with mine apart from the useless merc dealers..
But it did seem a bit cheaply put together when I compared it to my girlfriends MX5 and I couldn't imagine one on the road as a daily in 10 years time like a lot of old MX5's but I still miss the car.

[dugsud]

Mrs Dugsud has had her Roadster Coupe for about 5 years since 12k miles. She uses it to commute to work which is about a 60 mile round trip each day mainly dual carriageway with a bit of stop-start traffic. I change the oil every 5k miles without fail and now at just over 100k miles it still runs sweet, burns no oil and is quiet.

In that 100k miles, apart from normal servicing it's needed a rear wheel bearing, front spring and a few door seals and that's about it!

The big problem is replacing these cars....there really is nothing else like them! Oh well....next stop 200k miles

[Kolbenkopp]

Bit of thread necro, sorry.

Just added a roadster to my collection of unsuccessful ~ Y2K cars . Boggo 82 PS version on 15" wheels. Tip: if you are looking for one, check the tyre pressures at the front. Feels much better between 1.4 - 1.8 bar IMO. The default 2.0 is a bit much. Speaking of tyres: Yoko have the AD08R available in the factory 185/55/15 size and that seems to work really nicely (again, IMO).

Question regarding oil changes: Pela PL 6000 pump still the weapon of choice? Or is there anything better out there? Haven't got a good place to play around with ramps etc. so converting to a sump with drain plug currently does not make much sense.

[bobfather]

Pela PL 6000 works for me and the tank is big enough to drain my TVR too