Ferrari 355 Accident "Cold Tyres"
Discussion
Doddington said:
greygoose said:
It sounds like a cowboy outfit in every part of the story.
I know it sound like that but there weren't... In fact a well known dealership that specialise in servicing, restoration and race preparation of Italian marques namely Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati.MissChief said:
Prof Prolapse said:
MissChief said:
Certainly in my experience road tyres can only get warm with huge amounts of slip and wheelspin. The amount of grip they give however hardly changes in my experience.
Depends on the tyres. Higher the performance and demand the more you'll notice it. I've been lucky enough to drive a few supercars, the tyres make a difference. The best example is on motorcycles, there's a huge difference.
Prof Prolapse said:
I don't understand why you think the physics of friction and heat doesn't apply to car tyres.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's a point that needs to be argued.
A car tyre has a much larger surface area and so requires a lot more friction and heat to warm the tyre up. All the forces on a bike tyre are being passed through a contact patch smaller than a credit card. On a car, in normal use I just don't believe there's enough friction to warm a car tyre up enough that it makes any detectable difference.We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's a point that needs to be argued.
veevee said:
Tyres get warm just from driving. Very very basic physics. You don't have to spin the wheels for them to get warm!
I'm sure they do, but do they get hot enough and is the tyre and rubber compound actually affected by the heat in such a way that it gives more grip? I don't believe that to be the case.
greygoose said:
Sales man drives like an idiot with a potential customer in the car, crashes, destroys the car and then they hide the accident happening. Just because they deal in expensive cars and are well known doesn't make any of these actions ok, you seem to be overly charitable in your views considering what you say happened.
s
t happens... I don't have the time or the need to pursue the matter further. It was actually hilarious believe it or not. You kinda had to be there... It my seat... Plus I like life on the edge... I must sound like a crazy fool now! I'm with the OP on this. st happens, the salesman is probably the safest driver in the office to hand some car keys to now.
He made a silly mistake, we all do it from time to time. Nobody was hurt in this case so you could chalk it up to a very expensive lesson to the salesman.
There might be the added bonus that the OP will also now be in the good graces of the dealership for doing them a favour, (I'd be sure to let them know that too).
With regards to the widow, well, things turned out rosy for her, she sold the car (well, the dealership/salesman will have bought it) and she probably got paid asking price to avoid any questions.
IMO this is the way things like this should be handled, none of the looking for any opportunity to screw your fellow man over.
Of course, had someone been hurt then that would be completely different.
t happens, the salesman is probably the safest driver in the office to hand some car keys to now. He made a silly mistake, we all do it from time to time. Nobody was hurt in this case so you could chalk it up to a very expensive lesson to the salesman.
There might be the added bonus that the OP will also now be in the good graces of the dealership for doing them a favour, (I'd be sure to let them know that too).
With regards to the widow, well, things turned out rosy for her, she sold the car (well, the dealership/salesman will have bought it) and she probably got paid asking price to avoid any questions.
IMO this is the way things like this should be handled, none of the looking for any opportunity to screw your fellow man over.
Of course, had someone been hurt then that would be completely different.
TobyLaRohne said:
I'm with the OP on this. st happens, the salesman is probably the safest driver in the office to hand some car keys to now.
He made a silly mistake, we all do it from time to time. Nobody was hurt in this case so you could chalk it up to a very expensive lesson to the salesman.
There might be the added bonus that the OP will also now be in the good graces of the dealership for doing them a favour, (I'd be sure to let them know that too).
With regards to the widow, well, things turned out rosy for her, she sold the car (well, the dealership/salesman will have bought it) and she probably got paid asking price to avoid any questions.
IMO this is the way things like this should be handled, none of the looking for any opportunity to screw your fellow man over.
Of course, had someone been hurt then that would be completely different.
+1 to that. No need to go looking for a pound of flesh. t happens, the salesman is probably the safest driver in the office to hand some car keys to now. He made a silly mistake, we all do it from time to time. Nobody was hurt in this case so you could chalk it up to a very expensive lesson to the salesman.
There might be the added bonus that the OP will also now be in the good graces of the dealership for doing them a favour, (I'd be sure to let them know that too).
With regards to the widow, well, things turned out rosy for her, she sold the car (well, the dealership/salesman will have bought it) and she probably got paid asking price to avoid any questions.
IMO this is the way things like this should be handled, none of the looking for any opportunity to screw your fellow man over.
Of course, had someone been hurt then that would be completely different.
MissChief said:
veevee said:
Tyres get warm just from driving. Very very basic physics. You don't have to spin the wheels for them to get warm!
I'm sure they do, but do they get hot enough and is the tyre and rubber compound actually affected by the heat in such a way that it gives more grip? I don't believe that to be the case.TobyLaRohne said:
I'm with the OP on this. st happens, the salesman is probably the safest driver in the office to hand some car keys to now.
He made a silly mistake, we all do it from time to time. Nobody was hurt in this case so you could chalk it up to a very expensive lesson to the salesman.
There might be the added bonus that the OP will also now be in the good graces of the dealership for doing them a favour, (I'd be sure to let them know that too).
With regards to the widow, well, things turned out rosy for her, she sold the car (well, the dealership/salesman will have bought it) and she probably got paid asking price to avoid any questions.
IMO this is the way things like this should be handled, none of the looking for any opportunity to screw your fellow man over.
Of course, had someone been hurt then that would be completely different.
Nice to see a sensible post. As already stated - st happens, the salesman is probably the safest driver in the office to hand some car keys to now. He made a silly mistake, we all do it from time to time. Nobody was hurt in this case so you could chalk it up to a very expensive lesson to the salesman.
There might be the added bonus that the OP will also now be in the good graces of the dealership for doing them a favour, (I'd be sure to let them know that too).
With regards to the widow, well, things turned out rosy for her, she sold the car (well, the dealership/salesman will have bought it) and she probably got paid asking price to avoid any questions.
IMO this is the way things like this should be handled, none of the looking for any opportunity to screw your fellow man over.
Of course, had someone been hurt then that would be completely different.
t happensProf Prolapse said:
MissChief said:
Certainly in my experience road tyres can only get warm with huge amounts of slip and wheelspin. The amount of grip they give however hardly changes in my experience.
Depends on the tyres. Higher the performance and demand the more you'll notice it. I've been lucky enough to drive a few supercars, the tyres make a difference. The best example is on motorcycles, there's a huge difference.
), even in regular "performance" cars decent tyres, then warm decent tyres make a big difference. And on track oriented AD08s on my Volvo I couldn't believe the cold/warm difference in grip... Even on my CBF125 it makes a difference when they are not stone cold.As for the sales guy. He messed up big time, but do you want him to lose his job over it?
Edited by jimbobsimmonds on Thursday 10th October 07:37
MissChief said:
I can believe a Motorcycle where the softer the tyre the more 'squidge' and the larger/stickier the contact patch but on a road car, unless the tyre is a Semi slick, just road legal effort I can't say I've ever felt warm tyres give better grip. Most tyres are just too hard to noticably change grip levels with heat. You just can't get enough load into the tyre to warm it up sufficiently unless your car has steel poles for springs.
It's noticeable on something like the pace of an M3. I experienced this first hand when after a period of being stationary, I set off quite hard since the engine and fluids were warm. This had the effect of warming only the rear tyres. The first corner I pushed into, the car understeered horribly compared to when all four tyres are up to temperature.The difference in grip between the first corner you take, and say after driving on a dual carriageway for 3 or 4 minutes is noticeable.
Doesn't sound any different to the teenager who shouts 'watch this' showing off to his mates before he bins it. Only difference is its an older toff in someone else's Ferrari.
That said I'd walk away and forget about it, I bet you'll get great service if you carry on using them, I think I know from the description which dealer it is and they are nice helpful friendly chaps, never been out in any of their cars though just had a bit of work done on mine while I waited in the showroom.
That said I'd walk away and forget about it, I bet you'll get great service if you carry on using them, I think I know from the description which dealer it is and they are nice helpful friendly chaps, never been out in any of their cars though just had a bit of work done on mine while I waited in the showroom.
MissChief said:
Prof Prolapse said:
I don't understand why you think the physics of friction and heat doesn't apply to car tyres.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's a point that needs to be argued.
A car tyre has a much larger surface area and so requires a lot more friction and heat to warm the tyre up. All the forces on a bike tyre are being passed through a contact patch smaller than a credit card. On a car, in normal use I just don't believe there's enough friction to warm a car tyre up enough that it makes any detectable difference.We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's a point that needs to be argued.
I had PZeros on a porsche for a while and it was very noticeable that the grip through the set of bends on the approach to the village was much worse setting off on a cold morning compared to the return journey at any time. The michelin PS/2 that replaced them were far better but still noticeable.
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