mondeo st tdci....pitfalls?
Discussion
I can see no logic in this car as a used buy unfortunately. They are nice enough but at the price they now cost versus what they offer taking into account the considerable risk involved in owning one (They seem disproportionately bad in terms of DMF/Injector issues even compared to other complex diesels) I have to wonder just who buys them?
If you can afford to randomly throw almost £1k at your Mondeo every so often then why are you buying a 7 year old Mondeo diesel - might as well just buy something newer or with a more interesting engine. The fact is most people buying these are, and rightly so, after low running costs. But the ST TDCi, on average, probably won't offer that.
Just because it can manage 50mpg doesn't mean it's economical when you look at the bigger picture.
If you can afford to randomly throw almost £1k at your Mondeo every so often then why are you buying a 7 year old Mondeo diesel - might as well just buy something newer or with a more interesting engine. The fact is most people buying these are, and rightly so, after low running costs. But the ST TDCi, on average, probably won't offer that.
Just because it can manage 50mpg doesn't mean it's economical when you look at the bigger picture.
As said DMF, EGR valve and injectors are the big ones.
DMF - Normally shows its self by a short sharp squeak/screech when letting the clutch up quickly on downchange then blocking up the starter motor with swarf as it gets worse. (If its recently had a starter replaced without the DMF being checked I'd be weary)
EGR valve - As per most modern engines. Pumping dirty exhaust gasses back into the inlet side has the funny side effect of gunking everything up as it gets older
. A good clean including taking the inlet manifold off (not difficult if you can confidently wield a 10mm socket/spanner) then fitting a blanking plate does wonders for smooth running and MPG.
Injectors - When they go they leak back too much fuel to the return side of the system meaning the fuel pump can't keep the fuel rail pressure up in line with demand. Shown on the dash as a flashing glow plug light (Google TDCI flashing glow plug for an evenings reading). Running wise if the injectors are on their way out the car can be a pain to start from cold and when under high engine load at around 3000 rpm it can drop into limp home mode or cut out all together. The only sure fire way to check the injectors is to do a leak off check and to check the fuel rail pressure at idle and under load via OBD using the right computer software.
DMF - Normally shows its self by a short sharp squeak/screech when letting the clutch up quickly on downchange then blocking up the starter motor with swarf as it gets worse. (If its recently had a starter replaced without the DMF being checked I'd be weary)
EGR valve - As per most modern engines. Pumping dirty exhaust gasses back into the inlet side has the funny side effect of gunking everything up as it gets older
. A good clean including taking the inlet manifold off (not difficult if you can confidently wield a 10mm socket/spanner) then fitting a blanking plate does wonders for smooth running and MPG.Injectors - When they go they leak back too much fuel to the return side of the system meaning the fuel pump can't keep the fuel rail pressure up in line with demand. Shown on the dash as a flashing glow plug light (Google TDCI flashing glow plug for an evenings reading). Running wise if the injectors are on their way out the car can be a pain to start from cold and when under high engine load at around 3000 rpm it can drop into limp home mode or cut out all together. The only sure fire way to check the injectors is to do a leak off check and to check the fuel rail pressure at idle and under load via OBD using the right computer software.
Bought a 56 plate ST TDCI when it was 6 months old with 10k miles on the clock. It's now on 110k and the only issues I've had were a failed egr valve and a couple of instances of poor running in cold weather which were caused by a blocking up diesel filter. They can be very sensitive to fuel filter issues which often gets incorrectly diagnosed as injector problems. Both of the problems I had were quick and cheap to fix for me, the car still drives very well at 110k and returns 45mpg.
All cars now days seem to cost a fortune when something goes wrong I'm not convinced that the TDCI is any more unreliable than other cars. A mate of mine had a TDCI too which was fine up to 150k until a piston cracked whilst pressing on. He's replaced it with the latest type of Mondeo with the peugeot engine but rekons that the earlier shape drives better and feels quicker off the mark, and has much better visibility.
All cars now days seem to cost a fortune when something goes wrong I'm not convinced that the TDCI is any more unreliable than other cars. A mate of mine had a TDCI too which was fine up to 150k until a piston cracked whilst pressing on. He's replaced it with the latest type of Mondeo with the peugeot engine but rekons that the earlier shape drives better and feels quicker off the mark, and has much better visibility.
paulmoonraker said:
DMF. Mine went right on cue at 70K... 700 quid to put right...
Plus its perhaps sensible to do the starter while you're at it, add another few hundred etc. I briefly had a MK3 Tdci (not an ST), a fairly well looked after 2 owner car with under 100k. After a short while it began showing various signs of becoming a money pit so I decided to get it freshly MOT'd and punted through the auction.
The tensioner was beginning to make funny noises, looked a bit of a nightmare job, I believe the crankshaft pulley should be changed at the same time. Had an odd rattle going into third (perhaps something to do with the DMF despite receipts for it being done 20k ago). Lumpy on startup (injectors?)Various other little niggles.
I know several people who have regular woe with their similar engined Ford vans.
Basically, I wouldn't - although I like the petrol Mondeo.
Because alot of people post on the forums about their bad experiences the ST TDCi has gained a bad reputation in terms of reliability.
I'm on 107,000 miles with mine now and it has had the aux belt, tensioner and pulleys fitted at 70,000 miles and one of the intercooler hoses has split which needs fixing and the part is £35.
So with reading all the problems on the forums STdrivers and MondeoSTOC, two very good forums, I'm expecting a new clutch, injectors, EGR and a turbo any time soon
Price wise the fixes are in the region of;
Dual mass flywheel - £800
Injectors - £800
EGR (Jaguar part is cheaper) - £150
Turbo - £500
Aux belts, tensioner and pulleys - £150 for parts. My warranty paid out £400 at Fords fitted.
The back box usually rusts off too.
I wish I had bought the ST220. They don't have the problems the ST TDCi has.
The only downfall for me with the ST220 would be the MPG as I do a fair whack of miles each year.
I'm on 107,000 miles with mine now and it has had the aux belt, tensioner and pulleys fitted at 70,000 miles and one of the intercooler hoses has split which needs fixing and the part is £35.
So with reading all the problems on the forums STdrivers and MondeoSTOC, two very good forums, I'm expecting a new clutch, injectors, EGR and a turbo any time soon
Price wise the fixes are in the region of;
Dual mass flywheel - £800
Injectors - £800
EGR (Jaguar part is cheaper) - £150
Turbo - £500
Aux belts, tensioner and pulleys - £150 for parts. My warranty paid out £400 at Fords fitted.
The back box usually rusts off too.
I wish I had bought the ST220. They don't have the problems the ST TDCi has.
The only downfall for me with the ST220 would be the MPG as I do a fair whack of miles each year.
Other thing to think about is the quick clear screen does fail as in 50% of it mine failed on the drivers side it was fortunate I had a bad chipping smash the screen right in the view of the driver meant free new screen on insurance.
If you do get a hatchback when it rains or if you have a wet hatchback when you open it it drops loads of water into the boot.
Get one with recap electric seats they are so good.
My EGR failed within a week but fixed under the warranty.
Other thing to remember is the alloys delaminate - when they are new they look superb but delaminated they look very shabby.
It rides a bit higher than the ST220 wish the one I had was lower.
Rear parking sensors fail.
I managed low to mid 40's from the manual. The 330D auto achieved near as dammit the same MPG but was another world of performance.
Handling was good.
Acceleration isn't great but adequate
Huge boot
Loads of front and rear rom for adults
Good standard kit level
A voice control which works really well
Rare and does look good
Would I have another? Nope.
Buy an older E46 330D Touring Sport.
If you do get a hatchback when it rains or if you have a wet hatchback when you open it it drops loads of water into the boot.
Get one with recap electric seats they are so good.
My EGR failed within a week but fixed under the warranty.
Other thing to remember is the alloys delaminate - when they are new they look superb but delaminated they look very shabby.
It rides a bit higher than the ST220 wish the one I had was lower.
Rear parking sensors fail.
I managed low to mid 40's from the manual. The 330D auto achieved near as dammit the same MPG but was another world of performance.
Handling was good.
Acceleration isn't great but adequate
Huge boot
Loads of front and rear rom for adults
Good standard kit level
A voice control which works really well
Rare and does look good
Would I have another? Nope.
Buy an older E46 330D Touring Sport.
Not sure why all the Mondeo bashing.
OP is looking at a Mk3 which is probably where they peaked.
There's lots of them so they are cheap to buy.
All its competitors are just as expensive to fix when they break or are nasty to drive.
The Mk3 is comfortable, well equipped and if our fleet was anything to go by, reliable.
Buying at this age, whatever the make and model, Ford, BMW, VAG, GM, you need luck shining on you. When they break, they are not cheap. They can make a new car on a pcp appear not that stupid after all.
I'm afraid, this is the result of mass market cars which are competing down to a price for mega economy and lots of complicated toys.
OP is looking at a Mk3 which is probably where they peaked.
There's lots of them so they are cheap to buy.
All its competitors are just as expensive to fix when they break or are nasty to drive.
The Mk3 is comfortable, well equipped and if our fleet was anything to go by, reliable.
Buying at this age, whatever the make and model, Ford, BMW, VAG, GM, you need luck shining on you. When they break, they are not cheap. They can make a new car on a pcp appear not that stupid after all.
I'm afraid, this is the result of mass market cars which are competing down to a price for mega economy and lots of complicated toys.
I had one, bought second hand on about 60K IIRC.
Drove really well, pulled like a train, comfortable, and I liked the look of the thing.
Slave cylinder failed three weeks after purchase, taking with it the rest of the clutch and DMF, £1,100 to put right.
Injectors started to go three weeks later, big clouds of smoke on start up.
In the four months I had it I never topped 42mpg.
I ended up chopping it in for a Z4 3.0 which wasn't that much less economical on my commute and was a huge chunk more reliable!
Drove really well, pulled like a train, comfortable, and I liked the look of the thing.
Slave cylinder failed three weeks after purchase, taking with it the rest of the clutch and DMF, £1,100 to put right.
Injectors started to go three weeks later, big clouds of smoke on start up.
In the four months I had it I never topped 42mpg.
I ended up chopping it in for a Z4 3.0 which wasn't that much less economical on my commute and was a huge chunk more reliable!
Blue Oval84 said:
I had one, bought second hand on about 60K IIRC.
Drove really well, pulled like a train, comfortable, and I liked the look of the thing.
Slave cylinder failed three weeks after purchase, taking with it the rest of the clutch and DMF, £1,100 to put right.
Injectors started to go three weeks later, big clouds of smoke on start up.
In the four months I had it I never topped 42mpg.
I ended up chopping it in for a Z4 3.0 which wasn't that much less economical on my commute and was a huge chunk more reliable!
Sounds unlucky. You say you are getting near 42 mpg from a 3.0 z4 that's very impressive Drove really well, pulled like a train, comfortable, and I liked the look of the thing.
Slave cylinder failed three weeks after purchase, taking with it the rest of the clutch and DMF, £1,100 to put right.
Injectors started to go three weeks later, big clouds of smoke on start up.
In the four months I had it I never topped 42mpg.
I ended up chopping it in for a Z4 3.0 which wasn't that much less economical on my commute and was a huge chunk more reliable!
Mashedpotatoes said:
Blue Oval84 said:
I had one, bought second hand on about 60K IIRC.
Drove really well, pulled like a train, comfortable, and I liked the look of the thing.
Slave cylinder failed three weeks after purchase, taking with it the rest of the clutch and DMF, £1,100 to put right.
Injectors started to go three weeks later, big clouds of smoke on start up.
In the four months I had it I never topped 42mpg.
I ended up chopping it in for a Z4 3.0 which wasn't that much less economical on my commute and was a huge chunk more reliable!
Sounds unlucky. You say you are getting near 42 mpg from a 3.0 z4 that's very impressive Drove really well, pulled like a train, comfortable, and I liked the look of the thing.
Slave cylinder failed three weeks after purchase, taking with it the rest of the clutch and DMF, £1,100 to put right.
Injectors started to go three weeks later, big clouds of smoke on start up.
In the four months I had it I never topped 42mpg.
I ended up chopping it in for a Z4 3.0 which wasn't that much less economical on my commute and was a huge chunk more reliable!
Talking about individual cars in reliability terms men's little though.
The kind of bad luck the poster is talking about can happen with any car.
The Mk3 is a good all round car but like all moderns will try to bankrupt you if things go wrong.
Not comparing it with the Z4 but just look at Z4 forums and they talk about spring failure, PAS failure, hood failure. All costing thousands.
Me, I've had 2 z4s, total reliability, 2 mk3 Mondeos, total reliability.
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