RE: 40 years of the WRC

[Zad]

This was the route of the Lombard RAC Rally in 1985. It started on Sunday morning, and finished on Thursday afternoon. Check the original image to see what times of day they were running! e.g. Restart Carlisle 03:00. SS 40 Churnsike 03:45



The person who scanned it in also scanned in the rest of the official programme. Check the GM Dealer Sport Clothing model. I can't think they would get away with that now... There is a nice run-down of some of the drivers in there though.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29126266@N00/86103971...

Compare with this year's


http://www.crash.net/world+rally/news/191295/1/wal...

[Zad]

Dapster said:

Do you think Arne Hertz had the Audi H&S Dept on speedial?

There's some great footage of that incident here, at around 9 minutes (but watch it all anyway). Sadly it is ITV sport coverage, not Top Gear Rally Report
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPAT8bcaoDc

That Quattro sounds like a wounded animal! Lots of footage of great drivers and great cars.

[fttm]

Watched the 85 RAC through The Forest of Dean on the Sunday evening then down into South Wales later that night and the next morning , stood in ditches on the inside of corners with Delta S4's and all hooking in mere feet from our faces , watching Vatanen roll the T16 . Both the atmosphere and entertainment were electric unlike the office hour sprints nowadays where you have to pay to freeze your nuts off in the woods . Good times indeed .

[Alex Langheck]

Zad said:

This was the route of the Lombard RAC Rally in 1985. It started on Sunday morning, and finished on Thursday afternoon. Check the original image to see what times of day they were running! e.g. Restart Carlisle 03:00. SS 40 Churnsike 03:45



The person who scanned it in also scanned in the rest of the official programme. Check the GM Dealer Sport Clothing model. I can't think they would get away with that now... There is a nice run-down of some of the drivers in there though.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29126266@N00/86103971...

Compare with this year's


http://www.crash.net/world+rally/news/191295/1/wal...

Quite a contrast - but not a surprise. However, we can't go back, but what we have simply isn't doing it - there has to be a happy medium. The FiA have relaxed rules on routes, so it is possible to expand - if there is the will from organisers, who don't seem capable or willing to do this.

[aeropilot]

Zad said:

This was the route of the Lombard RAC Rally in 1985. It started on Sunday morning, and finished on Thursday afternoon. Check the original image to see what times of day they were running! e.g. Restart Carlisle 03:00. SS 40 Churnsike 03:45

I remember it like it was yesterday, the '85 RAC was the first one I did as a member of service crew, well, chase car crew to be precise.
From getting up at 5.00am on the Sunday morning in Nottingham, until getting to bed back in Nottingham at about midnight on the Wednesday night, we managed about a total of 11 hours sleep spread over a few 2-3 hr power naps, only twice actually getting those in a bed (in Carlisle)

Proper rallying, a combination of speed vs. endurance and navigation and planning, no pace notes back then on the stages, as the RAC was still the only 'secret' event on the WRC calender.

[Ahonen]

fttm said:

Watched the 85 RAC through The Forest of Dean on the Sunday evening then down into South Wales later that night and the next morning , stood in ditches on the inside of corners with Delta S4's and all hooking in mere feet from our faces , watching Vatanen roll the T16 . Both the atmosphere and entertainment were electric unlike the office hour sprints nowadays where you have to pay to freeze your nuts off in the woods . Good times indeed .

Yup, I was the same from '82 onwards. Mickey Mouse stages on Sunday (somewhere like Weston Park), then off into Wales on Monday to pay £5 or £10 per car (and a 'car' was pretty much anything smaller than a coach...) to watch the proper action and get really close.

Even the Sunday stages used to be good fun, especially with around 170 cars taking the start - something utterly unheard of these days.

[TankRS]

interloper said:

I think the issue is most of us oldies were brought up on the RAC rally

This here is one of the issues I have with everyone knocking the WRC, and Wales Rally in particular.

The FIA changed rules on the distance stages should be from a central/fixed service park. if the rules changed to allow different locations for a service park then we could go back to the old RAC route. Until then it will always be a few stages within the specified distance of the service park.

Its stayed in Wales for so long as no one else has been willing to back it to the tune of millions of pounds a year.
The decline really kicked in then when David Richards (a man who should have known much better) took over the championship and made it into the TV friendly, short sharp stages the modern RAC has become.


One of the other things that annoys me is the ones who say the rally is boring, the cars are slow and unexciting etc. Yet haven't actually set foot into a stage in years to see the action first hand.
The cars are faster, when driven 'balls out' are more spectacular much more drifty on a stage. Ok I'll admit they don't sound anywhere near as spectacular as a Stratos or Quattro did, but they still sound pretty good over your basic 1600 NA racers!

[smartie93]

Loeb? yawntastic, many far more exciting drivers. Winning titles by being careful is not what people watch Motorsport for...

[aeropilot]

smartie93 said:

Loeb? yawntastic, many far more exciting drivers. Winning titles by being careful is not what people watch Motorsport for...

I'd say he won titles by having very little opposition compared to days gone by......

That's not his fault though.

[Slippydiff]

smartie93 said:

Loeb? yawntastic, many far more exciting drivers. Winning titles by being careful is not what people watch Motorsport for...

And this ^ is precisely the kind of attitude Tank RS is referring to.
Have you watched a modern WRC in the flesh ? be that on the loose or on Tarmac ? either in the UK or abroad ?
Loeb, like Rossi, Schumacher, Makinen, O'Sullivan, Davis, Hendry etc at the top of their game, make their chosen sport look easy.

Watch Loeb on tarmac, and yes he isalways very neat and very tidy, but he's totally committed. The ultimate speed is/was always there. I don't believe he won ANY of his drivers titles by being "careful". A look at the amount of FST will bear that out. Watch Tommi Makinen in-car, it all looks a bit dull and boring, but he won four WRC titles.

Colin McRash, for all his sideways driving, delivered just one drivers title. Yep, us Brits loved him (as did million all around the world) but unfortunately, you don't get points for style.

[MC Bodge]

interloper said:

I think the issue is most of us oldies were brought up on the RAC rally and didn't really see much of the WRC.

That's probably true. I used to video the RAC Rally coverage in the '80s-early '90s and watch it before school. Doing forest night stages must have been fantastic.

It always appealed because it was something that I would love to have done (and still would), more-so than circuit racing, even though I haven't actually made any effort to take part in rallying as an adult.

[TankRS]

Slippydiff said:

smartie93 said:

Loeb? yawntastic, many far more exciting drivers. Winning titles by being careful is not what people watch Motorsport for...

And this ^ is precisely the kind of attitude Tank RS is referring to.

Ironic really isn't it! the very next comment after mine was that

aeropilot said:

I'd say he won titles by having very little opposition compared to days gone by......

That's not his fault though.

Agreed. Its the same in all sports, but for the first few years it was a case of right Driver & Car combo. the same as - Schumacher at Ferrari, Audi at Le Mans, Rossi on the Yamaha, etc etc.

As much as Hirvonen tried, he was usually let down by having the weaker car. and occasional having to push it that extra tenth to compensate it, resulting in driver error or mechanical failure.

[thiscocks]

A better combo than the Citroen kit car I think, plus the pug sounded better.

[Alex Langheck]

Loved the F2 Kit cars – they really added an ‘unknown factor’ into the WRC Tarmac events – lightweight, similar power, N/A 2.0L engines...What’s not to like. Saying that, the 306 Maxi never won a WRC event, whereas the Xsara did.
I wish there was a 2WD class nowadays, whether that be FWD, RWD, or even GT...... It’s all abit predictable, and no ‘specialist drivers’ doing the odd event.

[Slippydiff]

thiscocks said:

A better combo than the Citroen kit car I think, plus the pug sounded better.

You may enjoy these then . . . .

In the wet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EzvnedQb38

Dry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRgRaLeE3bA

[interloper]

Alex Langheck said:

Loved the F2 Kit cars – they really added an ‘unknown factor’ into the WRC Tarmac events – lightweight, similar power, N/A 2.0L engines...What’s not to like. Saying that, the 306 Maxi never won a WRC event, whereas the Xsara did.
I wish there was a 2WD class nowadays, whether that be FWD, RWD, or even GT...... It’s all abit predictable, and no ‘specialist drivers’ doing the odd event.

That definitely added something to a tarmac event. I recently found footage of possibly WRC Corsica from the late Nineties were, the F2s got a real grip on the top 3 places. Well they were looking good until a hard charging McRae managed to get his Subaru in front. Exciting stuff unless you were in one of the other WRC cars and lost out on points!

[DubZeus]

[TankRS]

Alex Langheck said:

Loved the F2 Kit cars – they really added an ‘unknown factor’ into the WRC Tarmac events – lightweight, similar power, N/A 2.0L engines...What’s not to like. Saying that, the 306 Maxi never won a WRC event, whereas the Xsara did.
I wish there was a 2WD class nowadays, whether that be FWD, RWD, or even GT...... It’s all abit predictable, and no ‘specialist drivers’ doing the odd event.

Sadly the only FWD cars in the WRC now are the Academy/Junior Fiesta R2 cars. putting out about 165-170 bhp. but certainly not as blistering as the old F2 cars, or not as exciting as the old S1600 cars mind.

I guess the closest the current WRC has to F2 cars are the S2000 Fiesta & Fabia. Ogier managed to win SS5 on Sardinia 2012, ok, most of the top boys went off, but he still hammered his 2ltr n/a car home 7 seconds faster than Hirvonen in his WRCar.

thiscocks said:

A better combo than the Citroen kit car I think, plus the pug sounded better.

This and the Clio S1600 are the only French cars I've ever had desires to own

[moribund]

I've got a lot of love for the S2000 cars, shame we didn't see more of them. Spectated on IRC Rally Scotland a couple of times and the things were fast, moved around in corners, and sounded great. Being driven my Alastair McRae and Kris Meek. Shame nobody else turned up to watch them.

I think those who say Loeb is dull have not seen him drive in person. The speed he carries through a stage is shocking, I mean properly how-fk-is-he-doing-that shocking.

The biggest disappointment on the WRC events I've attended is the difference in speed between the top 5-10 WRC cars and everyone else. The rest of the field seem really flat after Loeb etc have gone through.

[Slippydiff]

moribund said:

I've got a lot of love for the S2000 cars, shame we didn't see more of them. Spectated on IRC Rally Scotland a couple of times and the things were fast, moved around in corners, and sounded great. Being driven my Alastair McRae and Kris Meek. Shame nobody else turned up to watch them.

I think those who say Loeb is dull have not seen him drive in person. The speed he carries through a stage is shocking, I mean properly how-fk-is-he-doing-that shocking.

The biggest disappointment on the WRC events I've attended is the difference in speed between the top 5-10 WRC cars and everyone else. The rest of the field seem really flat after Loeb etc have gone through.

Precisely what I said. Modern TV coverage just doesn't (can't ?) portray the speed of the the likes of Loeb/ Ogier etc in a WRC on stage.