RE: Vettel: Tell Me I'm Wrong

[kenno78]

Janesy B said:

Problem is people go on about 'people that dont go for a gap aren't racing drivers' yet when he shows a ruthless desire to win, it's shown as a flaw in his character.

Point is, they weren't racing. Instruction was to bring the cars home in that order.

[Sixpackpert]

Grimezy93 said:

His anguished screams on the radio during the last race of "Keep him away from me!" even though Webber was about 10 seconds behind with Grosjean inbetween them shows why Vettel doesn't deserve to be 4-time champion. If Webber had got it right with the 3 stop strategy then why shouldn't he overtake?

When things aren't going his way you see just how much of a baby he is. I could understand if Webber was all over his rear wing putting both their cars in danger but he was nowhere near him.

Put Vettel in a Ferrari or Mercedes and watch the success drift away.

This.

















And Multi 21.

[Thehandshake]

Must be "the finger"

[taylor172]

I am actually a big Vettel fan, We are the same age and i find it incredible what he has achived in the same years.

I dont think hes arrogant or cocky, hes just a pure bred racing driver, the throwing of the gloves, the storming off the little hissy fits... because hes not winning or something has failed, hes angry and thats fair, hes 26... of course that will come through from time to time.

My F1 friends cant stand the guy, they call him foot face (ive honestly no idea why) but are bit supporters of Hamilton i man/boy i personally want to get by the throat and shake until he wakes up from his self loathing, the world hates me stuper.

Sebastian Vettel is an amazing driver in an amazing car, no one can take that away from him, I think hes probably a riot when not in work mode, if anyone remembers top gear.. that had me in stitches.

[SonicHedgeHog]

For me two reasons.

1. His success has come mostly as a result of the car and screwing the universally popular Mark Webber.
2. There is no competition. It makes for boring racing. The top drivers are all within 1% of one another in terms of ability and yet Vettel is able to create huge leads in only a few laps. That can only be down to the car. Boring, boring, boring.

[Durzel]

MichelV said:

I like Vettel. The rest need to become more motivated. Less distracted by clothing, watches, women.

Yes he has a flat personality on tv. Kimi is better at that. Characterful man.

He should work on that, but I guess he couldn't give a toss.

I would hire him in my company in a heartbeat.

Michel

I'm mostly in agreement with this.

I guess it comes down to whether people earnestly believe the drivers should be putting on a show for our benefit, or trying to win races to generate more money for themselves and their employers. You don't have to be popular to be successful.

Mark is a "nice guy" but he is middling in the same car. He is manifestly not as fast as Vettel. So many people seem to be striving constantly for any scrap of conjecture that would explain why Vettel can't be as good as his results suggest. "It's the car", "put him in a lesser car and he'd fail", etc. Irrespective of Newey's supremacy Vettel has some serious talent - no one can do that many laps with that kind of consistency week after week and not be worthy of the hype. The car may be better than the pack but it doesn't drive itself.

Can anyone really blame RBR for backing the winning horse? Their fortunes are entirely in his hands - Webber hasn't been in with a shout of winning the WDC for some time, and probsbly never was.

I note also that Alonso and Hamilton (fan favourites it seems) are just as mercenary when they need to be, and often both pouting constantly about their fortunes. If you haven't got that narcissistic ego-driven extra 5% then you're battling for honours in the midfield. The big difference I think between Alonso and Vettel is that it is Ferrari that have overtly manufactured better conditions for their No. 1 driver - people seem to forget the whole Massa gearbox incident, and I don't recall Alonso protesting about it. I thought it was remarkable that no one seemed fussed that Ferrari used Massa to drag Alonso around the circuit at Monza - if that had been Webber & Vettel the forum would've exploded.

It's kinda sad really because out of the car Vettel seems like a pretty affable chap. He keeps his private life private, he doesn't whine about his contemporaries in the media every 5 minutes like Alonso and Hamilton seem to do, he does his talking on the track.

Quite honestly I think a lot of it is the perverse British mentality of hating success.

Edited by Durzel on Thursday 17th October 12:14

[Antj]

sheer arrogance,

oh and the Webber incident was the final straw for most people,

[JD2329]

Vettel's style of domination is a significant issue - qualifying on pole and more often than not winning from that position. That of course is testament to his own outright pace and that of the car; one can't critisise that.
However if he was qualifying 5th or 6th and fighting his way through the field to record many of his victories, I'm sure the preception of him as a driver would be different. Don't get me wrong, he can overtake and race with the best of them. However, we don't see enough of those qualities to build a full appreciation of his talent; winning continularly from a high grid position rarely makes for the most exciting racing.

[prand]

RSoovy4 said:

No it isn't, it's knocking people who shaft their team mate with no qualms whatsoever.

I accept that, but then we all know F1 is not really a team game for the drivers, and driver stitching up and falling out over who gets priority is not a new thing really is it?

[spinningman]

suffolk009 said:

Quite. I was just about to mention Eddie's comments (presume you also saw the Sky show). I think Vettel is an averagely talented driver in an astounding car.

Actually the thing I respect most about the guy is that he refuses to get all social-media friendly. Good on him for keeping his private life private.

If you think that of Vettel you must also have the opnion that Webber is less than averagely talented?

The Seb/RB combination is indeed a special one and take either of those components away and it won't equal the sum of its whole (again Webber proves that every weekend). But it takes time energy and a huge slice of talent to be able to work with a group of engineers and get the car to the point where you can dominate like they do - People have already mentioned Rossi in this thread, his global nickname is "The Doctor", thats because he is/was the best (ever imho) at working in a team and getting the machine to fit him like a glove and allow him to exploit his enourmous talent, Vettel is the same.

And as far as multi21 goes, he flew up to the back of his team mate, easily passed him and raced on to win the race - Webbers "I turned it down" claims are no more believable than Sebs "I didn't hear" claims - I would say i'd turned it down if I got mullered like that by a team mate in the same car!

[krallicious]

Truckosaurus said:

Is he popular in Germany?

He doesn't seem to get much 'press' in the UK other than bland interviews on the F1 coverage, whereas Button, Hamilton, and other British based drivers (eg. Webber) get coverage of their lives outside of the F1 Bubble therefore making them into characters.

He is not often in the news for anything outside of F1 but the majority of people here seem to like him. I'm not a huge fan but he comes accross well in German interviews which has allowed me to warm to him a little more. He is also plastered over all the Total stations here and is the 'face' of an internet tyre company.

[GroundEffect]

People hated on him before the Multi 21 incident and Senna did the exact same thing with team-mates.

In fact, if another driver had done it they would be heralding them as a rebel - I mean, in the same race Rosberg was told to hold station behind Hamilton. Imagine if Rosberg just went for it? Would there be such an uproar? Highly doubt it.

[dapearson]

It would be nice if the BBC/Sky didn't continually blow smoke up Vettel's arse by comparing him to "the greats" using whatever statistical boundary he's about to break.

Scored more points - well they get 25 for a win now, not 10 or even 9 like the old days.
Won/2nd/3rd in more races - how many races do they do in a season now?

I used to like Vettel, but the Multi21 thing really put me off him because i'm a big Webber fan, and since then i simply don't like the spoilt little st.

[drewbagz]

doogz said:

"But the nagging suspicion remains that Hamilton has more raw speed and somehow always makes things more exciting and that Alonso is still the best combination of speed and nous. That looks absurd written down, doesn't it?"

No, I agree completely. As do a lot of people.

Agreed!

[melvster]

I would like to see him equal Schumacher’s 5 straight Championship record and get close or even beat his 91 race victories, the guy is a great talent and proved that after winning in Monza for Toro Rosso; he was in a class of his own that day and was unstoppable. I think it is a shame Webber and Vettel have not had a great relationship whilst at Red Bull as Webber has been a great driver but has always had to play the number 2 role at the team and never got the recognition he deserved. If anything, I can’t stand Adrian Newey, yes he maybe a superb Engineer and Desginer but christ almighty he is a miserable sod; at least Vettel can crack a smile even if he has a bad day.

I can understand why a lot of fans dislike him but i have not got nothing against the guy, yes the Multi 21 thing was out of order but all the great drivers have their faults; look at Alonso when he held up Hamilton in the pits at Hungary or when Schumacher parked his car at the second to last corner in Monaco to prevent Alonso from snatching pole position and then you have Senna v Prost at Suzuka, Senna goes for a move which clearly is not possible and takes Prost out. I maybe alone in thinking this but I don’t really rate Senna as highly as most folk do, sure he drove some fantastic races but when the car wasn’t on his side, he threw his toys out of the pram, whinged and requested a move to Williams. Schumacher on the hand left a Championship winning Benetton and went to Ferrari which at the time was an awful car but worked his magic along with Ross Brawn and for 5 years they were invincible.

I only believe Ayrton Senna has the following and global recognition because of his tragic death, if he was alive today the obsession would not be as great as it is. If Vettel passed away tomorrow I would be certain the majority of F1 fans would suddenly love Vettel a lot more than they do now.

[VladD]

I think Multi 21 is more a point in time that people use to justify their dislike for Seb. I doubt there's many people here who liked him before and then stopped because of that incident. I also think that had it been the other way round, that we'd all be congratulating Mark for ignoring the team and sticking it to the German. Yes, his conduct after was two faced, but some of that is down to him saying at one point what he is supposed to say, no doubt assisted by Red Bull PR, and then later saying what he really thought.

I still think Hamilton and Alonso are better, but not by much. I also think the type of car that they are driving now suits his style a lot more than Webber. It was a lot closer in 2010 before these blown diffusers really took off, in fact Mark should have won it.

It'll be interesting to see what next year brings.

Stick em all in Caterhams with no aero and see what happens.

Edited by VladD on Thursday 17th October 12:26

[E65Ross]

kenno78 said:

Multi 21.

and yet the same people who moan about this moan about the fact team orders get in the way of proper racing.

[Crunchy Nutter]

The reason I hate him is because he's had special privileges in the team - for years. Other teams are trying to build a car that two drivers can compete in, while every Red Bull for years has been created solely for Vettel (or is it Fettel?). We British hate what we perceive as an unfair advantage, and that hate intensifies when the unfair advantage translates into walkaway victories every week. He seems so pleased with himself every time he gets out of the car (I'd snap that finger right off), but I for one just can't let myself truly believe he deserves it.

[R11ysf]

It's very simple - some people just aren't likeable! In the same way Simon Cowell plucks people out of obscurity because they have "the likeability factor" well Vettel just doesn't. Petty moaning and selfish behaviour (multi 21 is just not British) aren't helping him, but it isn't the hating of success as suggested above.

Look at Moto GP. Valentino Rossi was/is universally loved despite winning more world titles than anyone else. Jorge Lorenzo is just a bit of a tt and hence not held in the same regard. Marc Maruqez has started like Rossi did and is still well received as he always has a smile on his face and doesn't take himself too seriously.

[Youjutsusha]

After reading this I am thinking and wondering about the same things.

The booing was unjustified and rude. I don't agree with that. You give the winner a cheer or a clap for winning. It's not his fault everyone else is worse.

Though you have a point and to me the most exciting race I've seen in F1 was Button at the Canadian Grand Prix last year after being hit by hamilton getting a 10 second penalty going through the pits more times than anyone else and being dead last he beat Vettel who made a mistake on the last lap.

Maybe its that he doesn't seem like he needs cheering to win? Vettel led most of that race. There is the other thing of seeing him screw over his team mate Aussie Mark Webber over and over and to me Webber is more charismatic and probably gets more support for that reason over someone who seems to want to step on anyone on the way up.

Is this fair though no probably not he wouldn't be the only driver that has done this but maybe its because he doesn't seem interesting enough. I don't know but the same thing could be said about Kimi he is very very droll with the media yet is quite liked as being a man up the table with a car that is less than competitive.

Adrian Newey gets a lot of credit, but so does Ross Brawn for Michael Schumacher,

Newey was also the designer for Ayrton Senna's Williams which was quick too before what happened.

Maybe its a credit to the rest of the field that as it means there are a lot of great drivers in the championship that its hard to distinguish who is better without resorting to talking about car design /engineering and the engineers themselves.

I must admit that I tend to think of his sucess as mostly have the right car giving him a bit more of an edge.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/07121... I think most want the underdogs to win.