RE: Vettel: Tell Me I'm Wrong

[dinkel]

bigzarelli said:

Everybody loves him!

And still win all that?

Phew, he must be really good.

The sport has lost its sense of 'relation to the world of us mortals' since . . . the late 80s maybe even.

I cannot imagine a RUSH movie being made of the 2013 season.

[Roma101]

prand said:

RSoovy4 said:

No it isn't, it's knocking people who shaft their team mate with no qualms whatsoever.

I accept that, but then we all know F1 is not really a team game for the drivers, and driver stitching up and falling out over who gets priority is not a new thing really is it?

No, it's not. But don't forget when drivers (Driver A) used to give their team mates (Driver B) their cars so that when Driver B's car broke down mid race, Driver B could finish the race and even go on to win world championships at the expense of Driver A. Different times, I know. But some of the very people who did this are still alive and involved in the sport today. When you put SV alongside them, it does make you think.

For me, it all comes down to the title of Sir Jackie Stewart's book - Winning is Not Enough. For those who have not read this, the meaning behind the title is not that he is desperate to win at everything and more (which is ironic, as you could attribute this attitude to SV) but that it is not the winning that is important, but the way that you win. With dignity. Unfortunately, SV does not do this.

[M666 EVO]

I have never in all my years seen so many wrong points of view on PH

I have followed Vettel for about 6 years now, back when he was wildly eratic all the way through to now when he is dominant. Why is he so good? Because he is extremely focused, has a great team behind him and is an epic driver. Simple. Why do people need to dissect it as if its not justified?

Hammy is a little spoilt child if anything. Webber is old now. Kimi is dull as dishwater, whoever said he has character has a severe problem. Ferrari just aren't as good as RedBull and Button is just OK.

Vettel stands above the rest by a country mile. FACT. And always has done, even when he was finding his feet...

I am not German BTW ha ha

[Daston]

I know he is young but he needs to learn to keep his cool. When things dont go his own way he just screams down the radio or throws his toys out of the pram.

Compaire that with some of the older drivers who just take it on the chin. When Webbers gear box gave up didnt he just say something like "ahhh got a problem mate" down the radio? Just makes Seb seem even more childish.

Which brings me onto another point, I feel this is going to be a trait common with new drivers, they are taken on at a younger age and brought through the ranks with a single team and by the time they hit F1 they don't really know any different and have spent a lot of their life with the same age people and don't really get a chance to grow up.

[edinph]

Boris Becker wasn't much liked; Schumacher not much liked; Mansell....... dull: Raikennen............ monotonous................... Top sports people focus on winning. They're not around to be pleasant and amusing, they're there to win.
Vettel is very amusing off track viz his visit to Top Gear when he appeared to 'get' British humour pretty well.
Jenson Button is a fine example of a driver who can race AND be really pleasant. A rare combination maybe?

[Mansilla]

Its the metronomic efficiency, the feeling that nothing will ever go wrong, regardless of the starting position. The last few races feel like they all had the same script, which results in a Vettel win.

It appears there is no competition, which means it stops being entertainment. The purists will still get some enjoyment from some protracted battle for 9th, but that is not what gets you excited about a sport.

[Gruffy]

Eric Mc said:

The fake sounding extolling of his team on the slowing down lap.

It comes over as very false and pre-meditated.

(Why isn't this thread in the Motor Sport forum?)

This is what does it for me.

[bracken78]

What makes me dislike Vettel and possible a little RBR is that they will stay together for a long time to come thus winning everything (I now that’s the point but people will stop watching!). I don’t think he is the best driver but certainly in the top 5 maybe 3 on the grid today. I would have much more respect for Vettel if he went to any other team, be it Ferrari or Caterham and winning. Then we know we have a truly great racer.

[M666 EVO]

taylor172 said:

I am actually a big Vettel fan, We are the same age and i find it incredible what he has achived in the same years.

I dont think hes arrogant or cocky, hes just a pure bred racing driver, the throwing of the gloves, the storming off the little hissy fits... because hes not winning or something has failed, hes angry and thats fair, hes 26... of course that will come through from time to time.

My F1 friends cant stand the guy, they call him foot face (ive honestly no idea why) but are bit supporters of Hamilton i man/boy i personally want to get by the throat and shake until he wakes up from his self loathing, the world hates me stuper.

Sebastian Vettel is an amazing driver in an amazing car, no one can take that away from him, I think hes probably a riot when not in work mode, if anyone remembers top gear.. that had me in stitches.

Well said and bang on. I wish I had achieved that at that age...

[Roma101]

Durzel said:

MichelV said:

I like Vettel. The rest need to become more motivated. Less distracted by clothing, watches, women.

Yes he has a flat personality on tv. Kimi is better at that. Characterful man.

He should work on that, but I guess he couldn't give a toss.

I would hire him in my company in a heartbeat.

Michel

I'm mostly in agreement with this.

I guess it comes down to whether people earnestly believe the drivers should be putting on a show for our benefit, or trying to win races to generate more money for themselves and their employers. You don't have to be popular to be successful.

Mark is a "nice guy" but he is middling in the same car. He is manifestly not as fast as Vettel. So many people seem to be striving constantly for any scrap of conjecture that would explain why Vettel can't be as good as his results suggest. "It's the car", "put him in a lesser car and he'd fail", etc. Irrespective of Newey's supremacy Vettel has some serious talent - no one can do that many laps with that kind of consistency week after week and not be worthy of the hype. The car may be better than the pack but it doesn't drive itself.

Can anyone really blame RBR for backing the winning horse? Their fortunes are entirely in his hands - Webber hasn't been in with a shout of winning the WDC for some time, and probsbly never was.

I note also that Alonso and Hamilton (fan favourites it seems) are just as mercenary when they need to be, and often both pouting constantly about their fortunes. If you haven't got that narcissistic ego-driven extra 5% then you're battling for honours in the midfield. The big difference I think between Alonso and Vettel is that it is Ferrari that have overtly manufactured better conditions for their No. 1 driver - people seem to forget the whole Massa gearbox incident, and I don't recall Alonso protesting about it. I thought it was remarkable that no one seemed fussed that Ferrari used Massa to drag Alonso around the circuit at Monza - if that had been Webber & Vettel the forum would've exploded.

It's kinda sad really because out of the car Vettel seems like a pretty affable chap. He keeps his private life private, he doesn't whine about his contemporaries in the media every 5 minutes like Alonso and Hamilton seem to do, he does his talking on the track.

Quite honestly I think a lot of it is the perverse British mentality of hating success.

Edited by Durzel on Thursday 17th October 12:14

The difference is that Alonso was clearly going for the title and could still win it at Texas last year and in every year that Ferrari have tried the drag system at Monza, again, Alonso, but not Massa, was going for and could still win the title (except 2011). Some of the calls that Red Bull made in 2010 so early in the season were bizarre/unfair. The whole wing issue at Silverstone - IMO this was too early in the season to be making such calls, especially when the two drivers were still pretty close in the championship.

[Sexual Chocolate]

spinningman said:

If you think that of Vettel you must also have the opnion that Webber is less than averagely talented?

The Seb/RB combination is indeed a special one and take either of those components away and it won't equal the sum of its whole (again Webber proves that every weekend). But it takes time energy and a huge slice of talent to be able to work with a group of engineers and get the car to the point where you can dominate like they do - People have already mentioned Rossi in this thread, his global nickname is "The Doctor", thats because he is/was the best (ever imho) at working in a team and getting the machine to fit him like a glove and allow him to exploit his enourmous talent, Vettel is the same.

All F1 drivers are hugely talented even Max Chilton compared to us mere mortals. However Webber doesn't get the same breaks as Vettel. The odd dodgy repremand, 3 stoping, KERS issues and diffrences in wings So even though they drive for the same time you can't compare them like for like IMHO as they have different strategies and setups. Does Seb set his car up? Yeah he probably does but he does get the breaks, upgrades or whatever that Mark simply doesn't. Guess thats the downside of being a number 2 driver.

If Vettel can have the same success in a lesser car then I will admitt that he is a GREAT driver, possibly one of the best, but until point I and many others will always be questioning if its the car or the driver.

[Fire99]

Personally for me it's a few things.

The current era of F1 is very clinical with too many frills and gadgets and it's pretty cosseted so it's hard to see any current F1 driver as a 'hero'. Back in 'riskier' eras you really felt like these guys were prepared to risk it all, so even a dominating driver could earn respect and acclaim.
Vettel isn't really given much of a challenge. He's a fast driver, in the best car in a time where comedy tyres (and various other rules) don't put enough onus on the driver over the car.

Vettel also comes across as the golden boy of the team who gets all he wants. Add some cringe-worthy warm-down lap comments and too often a demeanour of a spoilt child, it makes it hard to warm to him.

[ajprice]

heebeegeetee said:

Astonishing, barking, internet-type comments throughout this thread.

Vettel is a winner, which goes against the British trait of admiring greatness. Britain is a nation of losers, prefers losers and warms to losers.

The lad is fast, determined and down to earth. It takes a lot of waffle to conjur up a reason not to like him, but it almost always says more about the speaker than the recipient of meaningless vitriol or criticism.

It isn't just a British thing, and it isn't just in PH, its a general thing that has ramped right up (booing on the podium) since Multi 21 in Malaysia.

[VladD]

M666 EVO said:

I have never in all my years seen so many wrong points of view on PH

M666 EVO said:

Vettel stands above the rest by a country mile. FACT.

Comedy brilliance.

[Roma101]

E65Ross said:

kenno78 said:

Multi 21.

and yet the same people who moan about this moan about the fact team orders get in the way of proper racing.

Not true. I have no issues with team orders. Or more accurately, I am indifferent to them. We either have them and follow them or we don't and it is a free for all. The problem comes when we have them but they are not always followed. SV likes it when they benefit him, but not when they don't benefit him and he then ignores them.

[dc2rr07]

The media have to take some of the blame, the last GP in Japan for instance - Webber gets pole by 0.1 seconds with Vettel second who had a Kers problem which lost him 0.3 seconds how many times has Webber had a Kers problem in the past but it is never reported in that manner.

[Fire99]

dinkel said:

The sport has lost its sense of 'relation to the world of us mortals' since . . . the late 80s maybe even.

I cannot imagine a RUSH movie being made of the 2013 season.

Very true..

[AFC1886]

The list is very long:

multi 21,
the finger,
the arrogance('get him out of the way!' etc)
favored by the team,
fastest car(by far!)
Horner,
Helmut Marko,
stupid radio celebrations(grow up ffs!)
Senna's grave comments,
balls in pool comments,
trying to be a comedian in every interview,
protection from the team and fia.

Also i get pissed of with David 'redbull' Coulthard trying to make out whoever questions Vettel is insane. How DARE we question that he's in the fastest car and can't race! How DARE we! fk off!

[chrisw666]

M666 EVO said:

I have never in all my years seen so many wrong points of view on PH

Could be true, but other peoples views aren't wrong just different.

[robinessex]

I'll start liking (and watching) F1, and admire the driver(s), when the cars allow a driver to take it by the scruff of it's neck, and drive the bks off it. For the whole race.