RE: Vettel: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
Vaud said:
Agent Orange said:
In the right car on the right circuit, Jensen is as quick as anyone else in F1 (so I would argue is Webber though, and possibly Grosjean and Hulkenberg too). But he's not as 'rounded' as the top 4 (Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Vettel - pick your order)...which is why he'll never win another WDC.
I agree completely. I think he struggles to drive around a problem car more than the above. He reminds me of Patrese in a way.I believe he is rated by his engineers for his feedback and understanding of the car. It almost seemed if Lewis might have learnt some skills on how to pull the team around during their time together.
Agent Orange said:
defblade said:
I think Damon and Jensen were more lucky (right car, right time, on top of great skills) than ruthless 
Ok I'll bite.... 
I have a near pathological desire to defend Jensen not least because I truly believe him to be the most skilful racing driver currently in F1. Damon finished 3rd (1993), 2nd (1994), 2nd (1995) and then won the WDC in 1996. If it weren't for Schumacher and Hill colliding (I'm being generous to Schumacher) in Australia in 1994 we'd be talking about a two time WDC.
This was during an era when he was up against Prost, Senna, Mansell, Schumacher and Hakkinen.
Jensen had awful cars pretty much his entire career. He made moves to try and get the right one which upset many. When he finally got the car he deserved the team folded. People say he had the best car when he won. Has a driver ever won a WDC with the worst car on the grid? Regardless it was only the best car for the first half of the season and after the money ran out the other teams swarmed around the Brawn.
Barrichello crumbled, went in to a near emotional breakdown. Jensen kept his nerve to bag the WDC despite everyone else snapping at his heels with cars that were by now far superior to the Brawn.
Zero luck in Jensen's WDC.
Good post
Gary C said:
An ideal number 2 ?
I believe he is rated by his engineers for his feedback and understanding of the car. It almost seemed if Lewis might have learnt some skills on how to pull the team around during their time together.
An ideal no 1 in an established team that is rebuilding. Or a great number 2 a at a leading team... I'd love to see him at Ferrari with Alonso. Acres of experience and respect, good clean racers.I believe he is rated by his engineers for his feedback and understanding of the car. It almost seemed if Lewis might have learnt some skills on how to pull the team around during their time together.
heebeegeetee said:
VladD said:
Jenson
Jensen
Oh gawd, I have a nephew called Jenson. I now realise I have given the wrong spelling to my wife for the Christmas card 
From Wiki: He was named after his father's friend Erling Jensen, changing the "e" to an "o" to differentiate it from Jensen Motors
Edited by RichB on Saturday 7th December 14:08
Silverstone. British GP. 1993.
I remember some spectators being asked by stewards to remove a banner written on a bed sheet which said
'Hey Frank! Don't take the little Bas**rd'
about Ayrton Senna's proposed move to Williams.
History has a way of airbrushing those who pass too soon, if Sebastien Vettel had a major accident then no-one would be queing up to say how awful he was.
Imagine if Tony Blair had been killed in 2001? Or of JFK had survived and held a second term while Vietnam went belly up?
I think he comes accross as no more abnoxious or irritating than Lewis Hamilton. He is just blonde and German.
Multi 21 is much less worse than the crap that went on in Groub B rallying with cars actually stopping on the course to change the leader board.
I also think he is a slightly above average F1 driver. Lewis or Fernando could do the same in Red Bull if they would be as disciplined and applied as Vettel is.
I recall a story about Schumacher being in the Ferrari building all week prior to a race to work with the team, Eddie Irvine showed up on Wednesday and just wanted to jump in a car & go. Guess who gets the most suppourt?
I remember some spectators being asked by stewards to remove a banner written on a bed sheet which said
'Hey Frank! Don't take the little Bas**rd'
about Ayrton Senna's proposed move to Williams.
History has a way of airbrushing those who pass too soon, if Sebastien Vettel had a major accident then no-one would be queing up to say how awful he was.
Imagine if Tony Blair had been killed in 2001? Or of JFK had survived and held a second term while Vietnam went belly up?
I think he comes accross as no more abnoxious or irritating than Lewis Hamilton. He is just blonde and German.
Multi 21 is much less worse than the crap that went on in Groub B rallying with cars actually stopping on the course to change the leader board.
I also think he is a slightly above average F1 driver. Lewis or Fernando could do the same in Red Bull if they would be as disciplined and applied as Vettel is.
I recall a story about Schumacher being in the Ferrari building all week prior to a race to work with the team, Eddie Irvine showed up on Wednesday and just wanted to jump in a car & go. Guess who gets the most suppourt?
Stick Legs said:
Silverstone. British GP. 1993.
I remember some spectators being asked by stewards to remove a banner written on a bed sheet which said
'Hey Frank! Don't take the little Bas**rd'
about Ayrton Senna's proposed move to Williams.
History has a way of airbrushing those who pass too soon, if Sebastien Vettel had a major accident then no-one would be queing up to say how awful he was.
Imagine if Tony Blair had been killed in 2001? Or of JFK had survived and held a second term while Vietnam went belly up?
I think he comes accross as no more abnoxious or irritating than Lewis Hamilton. He is just blonde and German.
Multi 21 is much less worse than the crap that went on in Groub B rallying with cars actually stopping on the course to change the leader board.
I also think he is a slightly above average F1 driver. Lewis or Fernando could do the same in Red Bull if they would be as disciplined and applied as Vettel is.
I recall a story about Schumacher being in the Ferrari building all week prior to a race to work with the team, Eddie Irvine showed up on Wednesday and just wanted to jump in a car & go. Guess who gets the most suppourt?
And in 50 yrs time will anyone remember Irvine!I remember some spectators being asked by stewards to remove a banner written on a bed sheet which said
'Hey Frank! Don't take the little Bas**rd'
about Ayrton Senna's proposed move to Williams.
History has a way of airbrushing those who pass too soon, if Sebastien Vettel had a major accident then no-one would be queing up to say how awful he was.
Imagine if Tony Blair had been killed in 2001? Or of JFK had survived and held a second term while Vietnam went belly up?
I think he comes accross as no more abnoxious or irritating than Lewis Hamilton. He is just blonde and German.
Multi 21 is much less worse than the crap that went on in Groub B rallying with cars actually stopping on the course to change the leader board.
I also think he is a slightly above average F1 driver. Lewis or Fernando could do the same in Red Bull if they would be as disciplined and applied as Vettel is.
I recall a story about Schumacher being in the Ferrari building all week prior to a race to work with the team, Eddie Irvine showed up on Wednesday and just wanted to jump in a car & go. Guess who gets the most suppourt?
Egos win races.
Those people who think he should've let Mark past obviously don't comprehend that the level of self belief you need to excel at that level means you can't just switch that off on a whim. A gesture like letting Mark beat him doesn't factor into his consciousness.
Frankly I'm amazed he's as likeable and grounded off the track as he is, because of the track he's an absolute mercenary. Perhaps that's because he's currently winning, whereas Alonso and particularly Hamilton are just whining all the time about their fortunes. There but for the grace of God blah blah.
Anyway, if Vettel were a more forgiving guy on the track he'd lose his edge, and be where Mark was. Simple as.
Those people who think he should've let Mark past obviously don't comprehend that the level of self belief you need to excel at that level means you can't just switch that off on a whim. A gesture like letting Mark beat him doesn't factor into his consciousness.
Frankly I'm amazed he's as likeable and grounded off the track as he is, because of the track he's an absolute mercenary. Perhaps that's because he's currently winning, whereas Alonso and particularly Hamilton are just whining all the time about their fortunes. There but for the grace of God blah blah.
Anyway, if Vettel were a more forgiving guy on the track he'd lose his edge, and be where Mark was. Simple as.
Durzel said:
Egos win races.
Those people who think he should've let Mark past obviously don't comprehend that the level of self belief you need to excel at that level means you can't just switch that off on a whim. A gesture like letting Mark beat him doesn't factor into his consciousness.
Frankly I'm amazed he's as likeable and grounded off the track as he is, because of the track he's an absolute mercenary. Perhaps that's because he's currently winning, whereas Alonso and particularly Hamilton are just whining all the time about their fortunes. There but for the grace of God blah blah.
Anyway, if Vettel were a more forgiving guy on the track he'd lose his edge, and be where Mark was. Simple as.
And thats a wrap Those people who think he should've let Mark past obviously don't comprehend that the level of self belief you need to excel at that level means you can't just switch that off on a whim. A gesture like letting Mark beat him doesn't factor into his consciousness.
Frankly I'm amazed he's as likeable and grounded off the track as he is, because of the track he's an absolute mercenary. Perhaps that's because he's currently winning, whereas Alonso and particularly Hamilton are just whining all the time about their fortunes. There but for the grace of God blah blah.
Anyway, if Vettel were a more forgiving guy on the track he'd lose his edge, and be where Mark was. Simple as.
Durzel said:
Egos win races.
Those people who think he should've let Mark past obviously don't comprehend that the level of self belief you need to excel at that level means you can't just switch that off on a whim. A gesture like letting Mark beat him doesn't factor into his consciousness.
All very well if he owned the team but he doesn't, he's just an employee. He/his management are milking the Red Bull cash cow while the goings good, and who can blame them. Unless he proves himself somewhere else he could win 10 Newey manipulated WDC's but he will still never be regarded as being equal to Senna/Fangio.Those people who think he should've let Mark past obviously don't comprehend that the level of self belief you need to excel at that level means you can't just switch that off on a whim. A gesture like letting Mark beat him doesn't factor into his consciousness.
blade7 said:
All very well if he owned the team but he doesn't, he's just an employee. He/his management are milking the Red Bull cash cow while the goings good, and who can blame them. Unless he proves himself somewhere else he could win 10 Newey manipulated WDC's but he will still never be regarded as being equal to Senna/Fangio.
Thats like saying the Alex Ferguson was a crap manager because he won 100 trophys with Man Utd ? (iam not a football fan)blade7 said:
All very well if he owned the team but he doesn't, he's just an employee. He/his management are milking the Red Bull cash cow while the goings good, and who can blame them. Unless he proves himself somewhere else he could win 10 Newey manipulated WDC's but he will still never be regarded as being equal to Senna/Fangio.
Senna only won WDCs with one team. He never managed better than 4th elsewhere. And they were with dominant cars.Vaud said:
Senna only won WDCs with one team. He never managed better than 4th elsewhere. And they were with dominant cars.
Idiot.The top drivers are spotted early in their F1 career and move rapidly to a leading team.
Check out,
- Ayrton Senna
- Michael Schumacher
- Mika Hakkinen
- Kimi Raikkonen
- Fernando Alonso
- Sebastien Vettel
Ozzie Osmond said:
Idiot.
The top drivers are spotted early in their F1 career and move rapidly to a leading team.
Check out,
The top drivers are spotted early in their F1 career and move rapidly to a leading team.
Check out,
- Ayrton Senna
- Michael Schumacher
- Mika Hakkinen
- Kimi Raikkonen
- Fernando Alonso
- Sebastien Vettel
blade7 said:
All very well if he owned the team but he doesn't, he's just an employee. He/his management are milking the Red Bull cash cow while the goings good, and who can blame them. Unless he proves himself somewhere else he could win 10 Newey manipulated WDC's but he will still never be regarded as being equal to Senna/Fangio.
Ozzie. No need for the abuse. I was responding to the "Unless he proves himself somewhere else he could win 10 Newey manipulated WDC's but he will still never be regarded as being equal to Senna/Fangio." and only that. I was highlighting that Senna never did "prove himself somewhere else" other than McLaren. All great drivers that you list and I have the utmost respect for all of them.
OzOs
Don't get me wrong, he was a great driver. But the point is that Vettel proved himself in a TR as well, which is why I though the poster was inaccurate in their analogy. .
I have nothing against Senna. I was lucky enough to meet him in 1992 in private lunch - just a few of us - and he was a very kind, friendly and decent guy, as well as an amazing racer.
Move on, nothing to see here. It was a passing comment, no more.
I have nothing against Senna. I was lucky enough to meet him in 1992 in private lunch - just a few of us - and he was a very kind, friendly and decent guy, as well as an amazing racer.
Move on, nothing to see here. It was a passing comment, no more.
In other news (I'm new here...) Vettel won BBC's Oversea Sports Personality of the Year Award on Sunday - unsurprising given his 4th consecutive world title win this year + his likeable public persona. He accepted the award via video link in front of his ridiculously large trophy collection.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/sports-personality/25...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/sports-personality/25...
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