Potential issues with garage
Discussion
Edit: Please read the whole thread before replying, thanks
Thought I'd post this for some advice in case this situation escalates.
Basically, about 2 weeks ago my jaguar started developing electrical issues. I took it to a well respected specialist, who I was assured was one of the best in the UK.
We agreed that if the work was over £500, they'd call me. I called them last Saturday and they told me the car was fixed, and the bill would be £499.99. I thought that seemed a little suspicious, but I guess they've got to charge a certain amount and this time it happened to be that amount.
So, I went to pick up the car and found the drivers side fuse box cover broken, just sitting on the passenger seat, and a load of grease on the leather door card. I spoke to the mechanic who hastily clipped the trim back on and said I should call him if it rattled or fell off. I agreed that seemed fair and chose not to mention the grease on the leather as I knew I could probably just clean it off later.
So, a few days later my car has started giving me the exact same issues as before, so they clearly haven't fixed it properly. I called them and the earliest they can look at it is next week which is a bit of a pain as I need the car for work, but again, I've agreed and said I'll drop it down to them. The garage is quite far from my home so it takes me a long time to get there and obviously costs a lot in petrol, but there's not much I can do about that. They didn't discuss charging me anything, but I'm extremely unwilling to give them another penny - I just want my car fixed. Do people agree that's a reasonable expectation or is that not how these things work?
Overall, I'm rather disappointed - I'd expect better service from a backstreet garage , let alone a jaguar specialist. Any thoughts, opinions and ideas on what , if anything, to do next would be appreciated. It's not a massive issue at the moment, but I'm concerned they'll either keep the car for weeks or try to charge me considerably more, neither of which I'd be happy with.
Thought I'd post this for some advice in case this situation escalates.
Basically, about 2 weeks ago my jaguar started developing electrical issues. I took it to a well respected specialist, who I was assured was one of the best in the UK.
We agreed that if the work was over £500, they'd call me. I called them last Saturday and they told me the car was fixed, and the bill would be £499.99. I thought that seemed a little suspicious, but I guess they've got to charge a certain amount and this time it happened to be that amount.
So, I went to pick up the car and found the drivers side fuse box cover broken, just sitting on the passenger seat, and a load of grease on the leather door card. I spoke to the mechanic who hastily clipped the trim back on and said I should call him if it rattled or fell off. I agreed that seemed fair and chose not to mention the grease on the leather as I knew I could probably just clean it off later.
So, a few days later my car has started giving me the exact same issues as before, so they clearly haven't fixed it properly. I called them and the earliest they can look at it is next week which is a bit of a pain as I need the car for work, but again, I've agreed and said I'll drop it down to them. The garage is quite far from my home so it takes me a long time to get there and obviously costs a lot in petrol, but there's not much I can do about that. They didn't discuss charging me anything, but I'm extremely unwilling to give them another penny - I just want my car fixed. Do people agree that's a reasonable expectation or is that not how these things work?
Overall, I'm rather disappointed - I'd expect better service from a backstreet garage , let alone a jaguar specialist. Any thoughts, opinions and ideas on what , if anything, to do next would be appreciated. It's not a massive issue at the moment, but I'm concerned they'll either keep the car for weeks or try to charge me considerably more, neither of which I'd be happy with.
Edited by Geekman on Tuesday 26th November 18:36
conkerman said:
You paid for the fault to be fixed.
Call them, let them know that the fault was not fixed and you will be returning the car for them to repair as initially agreed.
Be polite, no need for Defcon 1 yet.
This - but follow up your call with an email detailing key points of discussion.Call them, let them know that the fault was not fixed and you will be returning the car for them to repair as initially agreed.
Be polite, no need for Defcon 1 yet.
The 499.99 is possibly fair.
It may have been a £550 job but they just applied a quick discount to keep it under budget.
That's giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Or they may have bumped a £350 job up to 499.
Take it back in, see what happens.
Perhaps have a quiet chat to the boss and ask if he's interested in customer feedback.
It may have been a £550 job but they just applied a quick discount to keep it under budget.
That's giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Or they may have bumped a £350 job up to 499.
Take it back in, see what happens.
Perhaps have a quiet chat to the boss and ask if he's interested in customer feedback.
The 499.99 is possibly fair.
It may have been a £550 job but they just applied a quick discount to keep it under budget.
That's giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Or they may have bumped a £350 job up to 499.
Take it back in, see what happens.
Perhaps have a quiet chat to the boss and ask if he's interested in customer feedback.
It may have been a £550 job but they just applied a quick discount to keep it under budget.
That's giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Or they may have bumped a £350 job up to 499.
Take it back in, see what happens.
Perhaps have a quiet chat to the boss and ask if he's interested in customer feedback.
I've paid for garages to fix a fault in the past and been presented with a bill and found the fault still present. I've gone back of course and expressed my disappointment and returned when they said it was fixed again to be presented with another large bill.
Many garages go through the process of elimination replacing what they think it might be, they're not bothered as they're not paying for all the parts and labour.
Many garages go through the process of elimination replacing what they think it might be, they're not bothered as they're not paying for all the parts and labour.
conkerman said:
You paid for the fault to be fixed.
Call them, let them know that the fault was not fixed and you will be returning the car for them to repair as initially agreed.
Be polite, no need for Defcon 1 yet.
No you didn't. You paid for their time (which is 'expert') and equipment.Call them, let them know that the fault was not fixed and you will be returning the car for them to repair as initially agreed.
Be polite, no need for Defcon 1 yet.
You don't pay your dentist to cure your toothache. You pay him for his time (expertise comes with that) and equipment.
That both your dentist and your garage are expert is a reasonable expectation. That they can achieve what you ask them to achieve in the time that you arbitrarily allot them is not a reasonable demand.
(the grease bit is unforgiveable!)
SpeckledJim said:
No you didn't. You paid for their time (which is 'expert') and equipment.
You don't pay your dentist to cure your toothache. You pay him for his time (expertise comes with that) and equipment.
That both your dentist and your garage are expert is a reasonable expectation. That they can achieve what you ask them to achieve in the time that you arbitrarily allot them is not a reasonable demand.
(the grease bit is unforgiveable!)
If I paid someone to change my brake pads, then I would expect them to do so. If it was a more complex job I would allow for some exploration work, but I wouldn't be happy paying for the repaired car only to find it's not in anyway fixed- they should find the fYou don't pay your dentist to cure your toothache. You pay him for his time (expertise comes with that) and equipment.
That both your dentist and your garage are expert is a reasonable expectation. That they can achieve what you ask them to achieve in the time that you arbitrarily allot them is not a reasonable demand.
(the grease bit is unforgiveable!)
king problem and fix it. Not take random guesses and replace st that doesn't need replacing.You're not paying them to muck around. The OP didn't give them a time limit, he gave them the car to fix (the £500 or more bill isn't a limit for them to aim for, it's probably more for budgeting purposes). Only they didn't, they wasted their time and charged OP for the privilege. If their 'expertise' has let them down, then the OP shouldn't pay for someone else's incompetence.
STW2010 said:
SpeckledJim said:
No you didn't. You paid for their time (which is 'expert') and equipment.
You don't pay your dentist to cure your toothache. You pay him for his time (expertise comes with that) and equipment.
That both your dentist and your garage are expert is a reasonable expectation. That they can achieve what you ask them to achieve in the time that you arbitrarily allot them is not a reasonable demand.
(the grease bit is unforgiveable!)
If I paid someone to change my brake pads, then I would expect them to do so. If it was a more complex job I would allow for some exploration work, but I wouldn't be happy paying for the repaired car only to find it's not in anyway fixed- they should find the fYou don't pay your dentist to cure your toothache. You pay him for his time (expertise comes with that) and equipment.
That both your dentist and your garage are expert is a reasonable expectation. That they can achieve what you ask them to achieve in the time that you arbitrarily allot them is not a reasonable demand.
(the grease bit is unforgiveable!)
king problem and fix it. Not take random guesses and replace st that doesn't need replacing.You're not paying them to muck around. The OP didn't give them a time limit, he gave them the car to fix (the £500 or more bill isn't a limit for them to aim for, it's probably more for budgeting purposes). Only they didn't, they wasted their time and charged OP for the privilege. If their 'expertise' has let them down, then the OP shouldn't pay for someone else's incompetence.
Fixed price servicing is different to diagnosis and remedy work. You've given them an open-ended 'mystery' task. If you don't trust them to honestly work towards that solving the problem, take your car elsewhere.
No garage is going to promise to cure an electrical problem for a fixed fee when they don't know what the cause is. Cars are just too complicated, and parts too expensive, for them to leave themselves open like that.
Take the dentist analogy - you take your mouth in and say 'it hurts, you've got £250, go!" and expect the problem solved. Doesn't work like that, does it?
SpeckledJim said:
Next time you get a bill from the garage, for something without a definite cause, you'll notice you pay for their time. Not the results.
Fixed price servicing is different to diagnosis and remedy work. You've given them an open-ended 'mystery' task. If you don't trust them to honestly work towards that solving the problem, take your car elsewhere.
No garage is going to promise to cure an electrical problem for a fixed fee when they don't know what the cause is. Cars are just too complicated, and parts too expensive, for them to leave themselves open like that.
Take the dentist analogy - you take your mouth in and say 'it hurts, you've got £250, go!" and expect the problem solved. Doesn't work like that, does it?
So you are effectively paying for the level of incompetence of the garage staff. The more useless they are at diagnosing and rectifying problems, the more you pay,Fixed price servicing is different to diagnosis and remedy work. You've given them an open-ended 'mystery' task. If you don't trust them to honestly work towards that solving the problem, take your car elsewhere.
No garage is going to promise to cure an electrical problem for a fixed fee when they don't know what the cause is. Cars are just too complicated, and parts too expensive, for them to leave themselves open like that.
Take the dentist analogy - you take your mouth in and say 'it hurts, you've got £250, go!" and expect the problem solved. Doesn't work like that, does it?
so again on the dentist comparison
dentist A -my tooth hurts..dentist takes a look and says its usualy the back teeth that hurt and pulls one , £££ please. only to find it wasnt that one at all , so pull another one at ££
dentist B - my tooth hurts , xray your mouth and find the problem first time , pay once ££
so yeah youre paying for thier lack of skills imo , unless they upfront said it could be a combination of xyz and we can start with the cheapest
dentist A -my tooth hurts..dentist takes a look and says its usualy the back teeth that hurt and pulls one , £££ please. only to find it wasnt that one at all , so pull another one at ££
dentist B - my tooth hurts , xray your mouth and find the problem first time , pay once ££
so yeah youre paying for thier lack of skills imo , unless they upfront said it could be a combination of xyz and we can start with the cheapest
Mr2Mike said:
SpeckledJim said:
Next time you get a bill from the garage, for something without a definite cause, you'll notice you pay for their time. Not the results.
Fixed price servicing is different to diagnosis and remedy work. You've given them an open-ended 'mystery' task. If you don't trust them to honestly work towards that solving the problem, take your car elsewhere.
No garage is going to promise to cure an electrical problem for a fixed fee when they don't know what the cause is. Cars are just too complicated, and parts too expensive, for them to leave themselves open like that.
Take the dentist analogy - you take your mouth in and say 'it hurts, you've got £250, go!" and expect the problem solved. Doesn't work like that, does it?
So you are effectively paying for the level of incompetence of the garage staff. The more useless they are at diagnosing and rectifying problems, the more you pay,Fixed price servicing is different to diagnosis and remedy work. You've given them an open-ended 'mystery' task. If you don't trust them to honestly work towards that solving the problem, take your car elsewhere.
No garage is going to promise to cure an electrical problem for a fixed fee when they don't know what the cause is. Cars are just too complicated, and parts too expensive, for them to leave themselves open like that.
Take the dentist analogy - you take your mouth in and say 'it hurts, you've got £250, go!" and expect the problem solved. Doesn't work like that, does it?
Except...
A good garage (which this may or may not be) will get the problem solved as quickly and cheaply as possible, in the best interests of the 'long-game' of repeat business and a good reputation.
Do you honestly think a workshop manager should look at a car that has a non-specified electrical problem and say "ok, we'll fix it for £500" whilst not knowing if the issue is a £15 relay or a £1500 ECU?
steveo3002 said:
so again on the dentist comparison
dentist A -my tooth hurts..dentist takes a look and says its usualy the back teeth that hurt and pulls one , £££ please. only to find it wasnt that one at all , so pull another one at ££
dentist B - my tooth hurts , xray your mouth and find the problem first time , pay once ££
so yeah youre paying for thier lack of skills imo , unless they upfront said it could be a combination of xyz and we can start with the cheapest
No, and thanks for making my point here. dentist A -my tooth hurts..dentist takes a look and says its usualy the back teeth that hurt and pulls one , £££ please. only to find it wasnt that one at all , so pull another one at ££
dentist B - my tooth hurts , xray your mouth and find the problem first time , pay once ££
so yeah youre paying for thier lack of skills imo , unless they upfront said it could be a combination of xyz and we can start with the cheapest
Anyone can pull teeth. Only the dentist has the know-how and equipment to get the problem solved adequately quickly.
Likewise,
Anyone can chase faults around a car. A good garage has the best chance of solving it quickly. But that might be £20, £200 or £2000 - it doesn't mean they haven't done all the right things in the right order.
SpeckledJim said:
No garage is going to promise to cure an electrical problem for a fixed fee when they don't know what the cause is.
Nobody has said they did or were expected to.The garage in this case agreed that if the cost of a part or parts that were required to fix the problem would take the total price over £500 they would contact the owner and discuss it.
The garage haven't said (as far as we know) that the car was "maybe fixed" or just "£500 worth of fixing done, more to do." They said they found the problem and repaired the parts or changed the parts that were faulty and that the car was fixed.
JM said:
SpeckledJim said:
No garage is going to promise to cure an electrical problem for a fixed fee when they don't know what the cause is.
Nobody has said they did or were expected to.The garage in this case agreed that if the cost of a part or parts that were required to fix the problem would take the total price over £500 they would contact the owner and discuss it.
The garage haven't said (as far as we know) that the car was "maybe fixed" or just "£500 worth of fixing done, more to do." They said they found the problem and repaired the parts or changed the parts that were faulty and that the car was fixed.
Doesn't mean you did anything wrong. The problems can be very difficult to pin down, and the cause can lie in (for example) 3 different places, so sorting it once still means you've got to sort it twice more.
The OP wanted the garage to keep working on it, but this time for free. Doesn't work like that. Fixed today doesn't mean fixed tomorrow, that's just the way it is.
Or, it's a crap or dishonest garage who've had the OP over. But nothing in the OP leads to that as a natural conclusion, it's just a possibility.
Interesting replies - thanks.
The way I see it, if they'd released the car in non-working condition, I would then be liable to pay more to get the fault fixed. However, the fault was fixed, and it then returned, suggesting that there was a problem with the quality of their repair.
They've done the work, they've fixed the problem, and their fix has later failed. Therefore I should not be liable IMO.
I doubt there's any legal weight to that though
The way I see it, if they'd released the car in non-working condition, I would then be liable to pay more to get the fault fixed. However, the fault was fixed, and it then returned, suggesting that there was a problem with the quality of their repair.
They've done the work, they've fixed the problem, and their fix has later failed. Therefore I should not be liable IMO.
I doubt there's any legal weight to that though
Geekman said:
Interesting replies - thanks.
The way I see it, if they'd released the car in non-working condition, I would then be liable to pay more to get the fault fixed. However, the fault was fixed, and it then returned, suggesting that there was a problem with the quality of their repair.
They've done the work, they've fixed the problem, and their fix has later failed. Therefore I should not be liable IMO.
I doubt there's any legal weight to that though
Sorry, that's not the lay-of-the-land at all.The way I see it, if they'd released the car in non-working condition, I would then be liable to pay more to get the fault fixed. However, the fault was fixed, and it then returned, suggesting that there was a problem with the quality of their repair.
They've done the work, they've fixed the problem, and their fix has later failed. Therefore I should not be liable IMO.
I doubt there's any legal weight to that though
They took the car, applied their expertise over a period of time (which is what you've paid for) and returned it to you in 'fixed' condition.
If after a heat-cycle or ten, or breaching 88mph, or hitting a pothole, or whatever, the problem reappears, then that doesn't alter the above at all.
Once a problem appears to be fixed, you stop working on it (and stop the clock - £499.99 - what a coincidence
). If however, for example, there are 3 problematic parts in the system, that are quietly all combining to cause the problem, and they replaced the cheapest or most likely, which seemed to do the trick, then they've acted in your best interests and done a good job.
That there are two remaining faulty parts that nobody knew about is neither their fault, nor their problem. They're your faulty parts, you'll need to pay someone to find them and change them.
Repairs I have paid for from a "backstreet" garage are stated on the invoice as guaranteed for 12 months. Any issues with any repair they have carried out has been rectified quickly and without charge.
I have used the same garage for many years, as has my Dad but so do colleagues of mine now and have had the same service. Make of that what you will.
EDIT: I disagree with the above. You have paid for a job to be completed and it hasn't been done properly. I would be cross and would lose my job if I just "had a bash at it" and charged the client when it went wrong because I didn't do it properly.
I have used the same garage for many years, as has my Dad but so do colleagues of mine now and have had the same service. Make of that what you will.
EDIT: I disagree with the above. You have paid for a job to be completed and it hasn't been done properly. I would be cross and would lose my job if I just "had a bash at it" and charged the client when it went wrong because I didn't do it properly.
Edited by StoatInACoat on Tuesday 22 October 14:12
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