Is there a better cheap track car than an MX5?

[DanielJames]

Kozy said:

A 328 is 197bhp and probably about 1250kg stripped out so 157bhp/tonne.
You can supercharge one for about a grand. That will give it about 170bhp, or 161bhp/tonne.

£1k MX5 + £1k supercharger = Faster than a £2k E36, as well as cheaper on consumables and a better steer. (And they are a better steer, by a long margin)

You're not really seeing the full picture here.

My E36 was 2k granted, but you can pick up a 328i SE for £700-1000 quite easily - and they don't take a lot to get up to 220bhp. For 2k, you could have a 220bhp E36 on slicks, with good brakes and suspension.

So, in a straight line the MX5 might be able to keep up, but on stock MX5 brakes, suspension, crappy tyres. It wouldn't stand a chance after a lap.

[DanielJames]

... but you'd be having more fun, right

* standard MX5 owner excuse *

[james_gt3rs]

DanielJames said:

... but you'd be having more fun, right

* standard MX5 owner excuse *

That's the point of trackdays! It's like saying an M3 would be quicker than a standard Elise... true, but I'd take the Elise.

[Kozy]

But it's a valid excuse.

The 220bhp, stripped out, slick shod E36 would be fast. No doubt. I had that kind of thing in my Civic, and I found trackdays boring, because it's not a competition. It was brilliant at sprints, because the goal was to go fast. But on a trackday it's about fun, and speed and grip doesn't necessarily equal fun.

Dancing about on the edge of grip is fun, and you can do that more easily and at lower speeds in an MX5. Lower speeds means less risk, means you're less likely to end up in the gravel, which means you're less likely to be booted out by the organisers, which means you're more relaxed about playing about, which means more fun... etc etc.

Yea, it's boring on the straights, but if I wanted straights I'd go drag racing.

Edited by Kozy on Thursday 24th October 11:16

[joe_90]

doogz said:

Do you have any idea what slick tyres cost? And doesn't a 328i SE have an open diff. If I was having a 328, it'd need an LSD. Having breezed past on open diff' done in my dinky toy last time on track. Although he'd never been on track before and was learning the ropes. Even at the bottom end of your budget, £1300 left over isn't going to get you decent suspension, slick tyres, upgraded brakes, and 220bhp, no chance

And I'm not an MX-5 owner.

Hes not far off.
I got a 325 for £500
Suspension for $800 + strut brace.
New pads for about £200 all around.
Set of BBS for £300
and a second hand set of (used once for qualifying) FX201's for £300

So not far off the £2k..

However I have spent extra on towstraps, steering wheel +LSD, tax etc.

No sure about the 220bhp, but I think you can swap over the intake and get about 20bhp more..

Edited by joe_90 on Thursday 24th October 12:35

[HorneyMX5]

I used to do trackdays in stripped and tuned MKII Golf GTi. It was very quick. While that is now a bare shell project I'm doign trackdays in my MX5. The MX5 is much, much slower. The MX5 is however a hoot to chuck round a circuit all day long without it breaking a sweat. Once you get the hang of it you can out hustle a lot of faster stuff on the twisty sections. A supercharger would see it being one of the quicker cars on most days. When I get the Golf back on rack it'l be faster and handle better than before but I suspect the Mx5 will still get wheeled out for the odd trackday.



IMG_2349.jpg by Nicholas R Horne, on Flickr

928.org240513 821.jpg by Nicholas R Horne, on Flickr


IMG_2376.jpg by Nicholas R Horne, on Flickr


928.org240513 766.jpg by Nicholas R Horne, on Flickr


928.org240513 853.jpg by Nicholas R Horne, on Flickr

[DanielJames]

doogz said:

Do you have any idea what slick tyres cost? And doesn't a 328i SE have an open diff. If I was having a 328, it'd need an LSD. Having breezed past on open diff' done in my dinky toy last time on track. Although he'd never been on track before and was learning the ropes. Even at the bottom end of your budget, £1300 left over isn't going to get you decent suspension, slick tyres, upgraded brakes, and 220bhp, no chance

And I'm not an MX-5 owner.

I was referring to the Toyo 888/Federal RSR tyre, not full on slicks, just decent trackday rubber. The RSRs in my size for my BMW are £95 each from Camskill.

Quick maths

E36 328i - £700-1000
Decent used coilovers - £3-400 - heck you can get HSDs for a little over £600 brand new
Track wheels/tyres- £4-500
E46 330i brake upgrade - £50-200 depending on how good a deal you can get
LSD from a 3.0 M3- £150-300
M50 manifold - £100-200

So yeah, it can be done.

My car has the M3 LSD, from the 3.0 M3 and the M50 manifold. Great upgrades.

[Kozy]

DanielJames said:

I was referring to the Toyo 888/Federal RSR tyre, not full on slicks, just decent trackday rubber. The RSRs in my size for my BMW are £95 each from Camskill.

Quick maths

E36 328i - £700-1000
Decent used coilovers - £3-400 - heck you can get HSDs for a little over £600 brand new
Track wheels/tyres- £4-500
E46 330i brake upgrade - £50-200 depending on how good a deal you can get
LSD from a 3.0 M3- £150-300
M50 manifold - £100-200

So yeah, it can be done.

My car has the M3 LSD, from the 3.0 M3 and the M50 manifold. Great upgrades.

Don't get me wrong, they do make good budget track cars. I know a couple of people that have had them and said they were great and they were pretty quick too.

I know many more people who have MX5s though. One recently went from an E36 M3 to an MX5...

[urquattroGus]

Yes you can. Skip the interior and re bush the suspension

[DanielJames]

Kozy said:

Don't get me wrong, they do make good budget track cars. I know a couple of people that have had them and said they were great and they were pretty quick too.

I know many more people who have MX5s though. One recently went from an E36 M3 to an MX5...

Likewise a guy on Cliosport has just gone from E36 to MX5. I really don't see the obsession.

Perhaps its because I often see the dark side of MX5s, the stanced out hipster chariots in which the owner would just love to tell you how much fun it is, and how he doesn't care if you think he's gay, not that you asked...

If I get chance to drive a well fettled one I'll jump on it, and revive the thread.

[RobM77]

juan king said:

Defcon5 said:

I'm a big fan of the 106GTI/VTS

Don't know if I dare say this, but.....

Wrong wheel drive.

IMHO FWD works much better on track than on the road as you can commit to corner entry. I should imagine a 106 GTi would be great as a track day car.

My vote goes for an MX5 or MR2, depending on where you want the engine.

[RB Will]

I think the ultimate answer for this thread is MX5/MR2 of if you dont want to test your ability quite so much then a 106GTI as the OP says he is not bothered about speed and wants cheap to run.

Track day requirements vary by person though. The slowest car I have used on track was my E30 325IS (standard). It was alright and gripped like a limpet in corners (providing it was dry) but it did leave me rather bored on the straights/ some corners. It felt a bit of a let down as I felt I was not stringing a lap together rather just pootling around waiting for the next corner and on the few trackdays I did with it it was never even close to being overtaken by an MX5/MR2 so I think I would be really bored in one of them.
Much prefer using my Scoob as 400bhp throwing you out of a corner and down the straight focusses the mind a bit more and the extra speed is more of a thrill. it is still fun in corners too, the obvious downside is it costs a gazillion pounds to run. eg each day will be about 2 tanks of fuel, 0.5-1 set of tyres and brakes then the extra wear and tear on everything else.

Then the are people I have seen with things like GTRs where they just want to be on track to be able to go fast on the straights and these people can be there having just as much fun as someone slithering around the bends in an MX-5.

So I agree with Daniel that a 328 would probably be a faster track car for the money but going on what the OP wants then an MX5 is probably the answer.

[Kozy]

DanielJames said:

Likewise a guy on Cliosport has just gone from E36 to MX5. I really don't see the obsession.

Perhaps its because I often see the dark side of MX5s, the stanced out hipster chariots in which the owner would just love to tell you how much fun it is, and how he doesn't care if you think he's gay, not that you asked...

If I get chance to drive a well fettled one I'll jump on it, and revive the thread.

That might have something to do with it. That's all I used to see of EK Civics, but then I bought one, put decent suspension, tyres and a Quaife in it and "Wow, this is seriously good actually". Likewise, some anti-Honda people that drove it were also impressed by just how good it actually was. Amusingly, one of those was the driver of the E36 328 I drove. His comment was "So that's what front end grip is". The E36 had none, understeered massively. Who'd have thought eh...

80% of the MX5s I know of compete with my local club in the autotest championship. Last weekend we had one and at lunchtime a storm blew in, completely drowned the course and broke the timing equipment. Everyone went home bar about 10 MX5 drivers, who proceeded to have a drifting competition. In a council car park too.

Edited by Kozy on Thursday 24th October 11:37

[DanielJames]

doogz said:

I think you’re being a bit conservative with the numbers here, aren’t you?

A quick look on ebay, you’ll not get a diff for anything like the numbers you mention. When you mentioned decent suspension, I hadn’t realised you meant cheap, second hand stuff, and really, £50 for a set of calipers and decent pads and discs?

Tyres are £95 you say? So what, if you buy 4, is someone going to chuck in a set of wheels for free?

Would you really recommend buying a £700 328, sticking some stiff coilovers on it, and hitting the track? Maybe it’s just me, but I prefer to do things right, that’d almost certainly require some new bushes, wheel alignment, etc.

I just think your numbers are a bit optimistic. It sounds like it’d be faster than a standard MX-5, there’s not much doubt about that, but track days aren’t about lap times, and as I said, if you drove an MX-5 and the only thing you have to say about it is that it’s slow, you’re sort of missing the point.

My M3 LSD was less than £150, you can fit the tyres to the wheels the car comes with (that was my point) unless you're going to be buying a car without wheels...

and yes, second hand coilovers - the only bushes you'll likely need to replace might be the front wishbone - which isn't going to break the bank.

You talk about 'doing it right' but please remember, we're on a £2000 budget.

[Henry Fiddleton]

I own an Mx5 as track and station car.

Its slow, looks like a girls car, and I look stupid driving to work in the cold, with the roof down in a suit for work.

Its awesome.

If I crash it, dent it...meh. It the engine goes, gearbox, brakes need changing...meh. Cheap parts, and its pretty much bomb proof, the rust can be fixed for £500.

I've just got some R888's for mine- regretting increasing the grip already, I've missed the point myself!

Kam

Ps "Just do it Mx5 it"

[Kozy]

Ah yes there's that aspect too!

They'll lap all day without even so much as a hint of being bothered by it, but if, for some inconceivable reason they do go bang, a replacement engine is maybe £200 and gearboxes are £50.

The 14/15" tyres are cheap too, great for shredding.

[DanielJames]

Jesus homie relax, I'm just giving my opinion on what a good £2k track car would be. I haven't put any research into it, but I know it can be done. Like I said earlier I have a DC2 for track!

I follow this guys thread on Cliosport about his track 328i, he's on here too but not sure if he's reposted the thread. Might be worth a read http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?7177...

[vrooom]

So buying a V12 jaguar XJS.. off ebay.. would make good track day car.

[Alex]

doogz said:

I much prefer my 140 bhp MR2 on track to my 320ish bhp Impreza. The MR2 is more challenging to string a properly good lap together in.

Having done a few trackdays in my Impreza P1, I have come to the conclusion that Imprezas are rubbish track cars.

[waynedear]

Primera GT or Almera GTi