RE: VW XL1: 119,000 euros
Discussion
KimJongHealthy said:
I wonder how safe will it be? With kerb significantly lower than a Micra...
You'll never win with this one. People want safety and economy in the same package these days which is impossible. A Mk5 Golf is 66% heavier than a Mk1 so imagine the effect that has on economy!Nick Young said:
I think they've spent too long on it - the impact has now gone as several manufacturers are producing real cars, usable by at least 4 people, with fuel economy close to if not beating this, that are far cheaper, quicker and better looking.
VW are apparently expecting up to 261mpg out of this box. There's nothing on the market that can even begin to get close. Little in the way of real world tests so far, but one I've read managed a "mere" 160mpg. Which is still twice as good as anything else on the market, let alone vehicles that can carry 4 people.Regardless of that I'd still prefer the original Insight.
IN51GHT said:
kambites said:
daveco said:
How is this any better than Honda's original hybrid, the Insight?
If the figures are to be believed, surely it is much more economical?clonmult said:
VW are apparently expecting up to 261mpg out of this box. There's nothing on the market that can even begin to get close. Little in the way of real world tests so far, but one I've read managed a "mere" 160mpg. Which is still twice as good as anything else on the market, let alone vehicles that can carry 4 people.
Regardless of that I'd still prefer the original Insight.
All this car proves to me is that if you spend an extortionately large amount of money on developing a super light but totally impractical in the real world vehicle, and you drive it like the accelerator is an eggshell, it has very good fuel economy. Regardless of that I'd still prefer the original Insight.
My suspicion (and I'll admit it's just suspicion as I have no 'insight'
) is that if this is to become a mass produced technology, once you add 4 seats, a usable boot (the 114 litres in this is pretty much pointless), and then add all the options that real car owners want to add to their new machines, this will do no more MPG than any other car. And being VW, they will overstate the expected MPG anyway. And it's still ugly ^
I'm with him.
The fact that they don't put it in mass production and basically make it a museum piece for the rich that want to show the world they are "eco-friendly", just proves the point imho.
Honda made the insight with similar specs, useable real-world performance and practicality at a family car price, and VAG is incapable of doing the same so many years later. Luckily the have created a hype so they can make some of the development money back (2 mil of it at least).
I'm with him.
The fact that they don't put it in mass production and basically make it a museum piece for the rich that want to show the world they are "eco-friendly", just proves the point imho.
Honda made the insight with similar specs, useable real-world performance and practicality at a family car price, and VAG is incapable of doing the same so many years later. Luckily the have created a hype so they can make some of the development money back (2 mil of it at least).
The emphasis on this article is it being the first "eco collectors car" (??!?), limited run, expensive'ish, and 600 miles on 10 litres of diesel.
Looking at these points in a slightly different way, 600m / 10 litres of fuel = 272 MPG, or 600 miles for £14 of fuel, or 2.3 pence per mile.
The cost of doing 600 miles in most EV's including a Tesla Roadster is about £9 if grid charging is used, or 1.5 pence per mile. But the vast majority of publicly accessible high-powered chargers are FREE to use, so that 600 miles would be cost nothing.
And if you wanted to be real eco and don’t mind the initial high cost, all EV's can be plugged directly into a modest off-grid solar PV array (with some trick load buffering, without any grid involvement) and promptly run for decades for free from the big yellow thing in the sky. The initial cost of PV charging would be about the same as 1 yrs petrol for an average car … And in a Roadster you get to enjoy some serious poke in the form of 0-60 in 3.7 seconds.
Still, the XL1 is brave and interesting project, but if its all about eco and cost saving I'd go and recycle some ownership for the original Honda Insight. Looks similar, seats 4, has the same 0-60 mph in 12s and is less than 1/20th the outlay !
Looking at these points in a slightly different way, 600m / 10 litres of fuel = 272 MPG, or 600 miles for £14 of fuel, or 2.3 pence per mile.
The cost of doing 600 miles in most EV's including a Tesla Roadster is about £9 if grid charging is used, or 1.5 pence per mile. But the vast majority of publicly accessible high-powered chargers are FREE to use, so that 600 miles would be cost nothing.
And if you wanted to be real eco and don’t mind the initial high cost, all EV's can be plugged directly into a modest off-grid solar PV array (with some trick load buffering, without any grid involvement) and promptly run for decades for free from the big yellow thing in the sky. The initial cost of PV charging would be about the same as 1 yrs petrol for an average car … And in a Roadster you get to enjoy some serious poke in the form of 0-60 in 3.7 seconds.
Still, the XL1 is brave and interesting project, but if its all about eco and cost saving I'd go and recycle some ownership for the original Honda Insight. Looks similar, seats 4, has the same 0-60 mph in 12s and is less than 1/20th the outlay !
Edited by Carparticus on Thursday 24th October 11:43
exceed said:
NO no, not at all! Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic machine but the price doesn't make sense.
Is it a collectors item or a daily driver?
I'm just confused as to who this is aimed/targeted at?
It's clearly a collectable, being sold at a high price in tiny numbers to rich / high profile people, below true cost of development.Is it a collectors item or a daily driver?
I'm just confused as to who this is aimed/targeted at?
Much the same as they did with the Veyron, and for the same reasons. Not to make money on the programme overall, but to make a statement about VW's technological capabilities, and to multiply publicity for the concept. By releasing some cars to members of the public they put it in a completely different category of practical development compared to the motor show 'concept car' which is generally made of clay and wood and all sorts of things, and often not even capable of moving under its own power, never mind being driven on the public roads.
Some buyers will drive them on the road, others won't.
ZesPak said:
kambites said:
I suppose the question is how far the power-unit technology has come on since the Insight.
Even then, why would this car be a future classic? The article raves about it as it's the second coming.To me, it just seems like an evolution on what the Insight was... probably a lot better (hopefully, considering the price), but far from the so called Jesus car the article makes it out to be. Or I must be missing something important...
Lowtimer said:
exceed said:
NO no, not at all! Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic machine but the price doesn't make sense.
Is it a collectors item or a daily driver?
I'm just confused as to who this is aimed/targeted at?
It's clearly a collectable, being sold at a high price in tiny numbers to rich / high profile people, below true cost of development.Is it a collectors item or a daily driver?
I'm just confused as to who this is aimed/targeted at?
Much the same as they did with the Veyron, and for the same reasons. Not to make money on the programme overall, but to make a statement about VW's technological capabilities, and to multiply publicity for the concept. By releasing some cars to members of the public they put it in a completely different category of practical development compared to the motor show 'concept car' which is generally made of clay and wood and all sorts of things, and often not even capable of moving under its own power, never mind being driven on the public roads.
Some buyers will drive them on the road, others won't.
IN51GHT said:
mikebradford said:
hope they roll out a mkII within a year, retail it for between 12 / 18k
and watch the street fill up with them
You are describing the G1 Insight 14 years ago.....and watch the street fill up with them
Wonder what Honda could do with the old Insight with a mild re-work
I think the closest we have seen to a proper Mk2 insight is the BMW I3
It's a limited production run and they've all been sold in Japan. The UK allocation is being erroded all the time and there are Japanese buyers contacting VW UK to get hold of them.
The UK has sold a few so far, and only has approx 30 allocated (originally 55). As a VW limited project, the value will only go up. Expect to see the technology appearing in VWs near you soon.
It's an internal project to give Dr Piech his aim of producing a 2 seat car capable of delivering less than 1 litre/100km economy, which it smashed. Official 0.83l for 100km but the German standard says you must round up to the nearest full litre.
The UK has sold a few so far, and only has approx 30 allocated (originally 55). As a VW limited project, the value will only go up. Expect to see the technology appearing in VWs near you soon.
It's an internal project to give Dr Piech his aim of producing a 2 seat car capable of delivering less than 1 litre/100km economy, which it smashed. Official 0.83l for 100km but the German standard says you must round up to the nearest full litre.
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