what is it like to drive a super car

[vinnie83]

ms33 said:

Shame, nice try though, the Greddy R35 is running just over 8 seconds!

Ah there's no shame in it - the Japs have always been better at tuned monsters!

[GravelBen]

NDA said:

GravelBen said:

- a driver accustomed to fast cars wouldn't be scared at all..

Hmmm. Not sure.

I have a Ford GT in my garage and a Morgan. The Morgan feels terrifying at 100, the GT is only in 2nd gear and hasn't even got properly going.

So it's not the speed that's scary, it's the cars ability I think.

I know what you're saying, I've driven cars that didn't even feel safe at 60mph! But in this case - a half caged MX5 with decent suspension and semislicks - it felt well within the capabilities of the chassis.

I'm sure something like your GT which is designed from the outset for those speeds (and much more) would feel that much safer and further within its limits though, no argument there.

[ms33]

vinnie83 said:

Ah there's no shame in it - the Japs have always been better at tuned
monsters!

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

[Maldini35]

KFC said:

Dblue said:

But the "brand" issue as the Ford GT demonstrates so clearly is not a deal breaker and if you can buy any new Audi A3 for £7000 could you give me their number.

Its not a deal breaker... just one of a handful of factors. I think the Ford GT and the Jag XJ220 had more hurdles to overcome because their creators are churning out shopping trolleys and rep mobiles. For me, both managed it. The v8 Audi R8 had the same hurdles and failed miserably

You sure?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpB1yR9Sz9Y

[OlberJ]

Thats the v10, it has no exhaust and it still sounds too clean.

Imagine doing the same with a Ferrari v8 or even an LS. That would be ridiculous.

The Audi just doesn't have the flair to be a supercar imo.

[castex]

Driving a supercar is ace. If you can find a brown one to drive, well, that's even better.

[jacksparrow11]

SturdyHSV said:

I know what you mean, when I was driving my 1.2 Clio back from school years ago, I'd often daydream about how much fun it'd be to 'open the taps' and have a decent noise to accompany you and some actual acceleration. I did a track day where I drove 5 different 'super' cars (Gallardo, DB9, 911, 550, XK8) and although yes, it was a great experience, being on a wide open flat track with no trees next to you and oncoming traffic, it didn't feel as 'fast' as it does on the road.

Keeping the Clio for years, my next car was the Monaro. Not a supercar by any stretch, long gears help to mask the power, but the way the rear squats and the nose points skywards when you put your foot down, and the noise, it took me about 2 weeks before my periphery stopped going blurry every time I accelerated. My brain was just completely unprepared for the assault on the senses.

A few years on? It still feels quick, but the biggest difference is how everything else now feels so slow. The Clio feels like it doesn't actually move at all, and the GTV, despite having an alright ~220bhp, doesn't feel fast at all.

Those roads you imagine will be great are still fun, but they suddenly pass under your wheels a lot faster, and you spend a lot less time with your foot down. Have you been a passenger in a faster car? I can't believe nobody has offered you a passenger ride if not, this is PH after all...

thanks for the reply ,the fastest car I've driven is a focus 1.6 , however i do recall being passenger in a AMG mercedes slk some years ago , from the passenger seat , as a young teen it scared the living crap out of me , but it was so long ago i can't remember the sensations i felt , bearing in mind that car was at least 6 years old , i am intrigued to experience how the modern performance cars are , but in the drivers seat this time, the local doctor owns a 458 italia , i am planning to fake an appointment and drop a few hints lol

[robinessex]

Not fortunate enough to own a supercar of any description. But an aquaintance of mine had the 'normal' reaction from the public re his Ferrari. Then he sold it, and spent 18 months buidinga GT40 kit car. The public reaction he was suprised to find was almost the total opposite of the Ferrari, especially when/if they find out you built it yourself from a kit car.

[The Wookie]

[redacted]

[Mr2Mike]

Underwhelming if you ride a litre bike regularly.

[The Wookie]

swerni said:

Is he a similar size to you?
I can see why the Fezza would be down on performance

I'll have you know I've dropped 2 stone in the last couple of months!!

And no, he's a short arse so he's got a starting advantage!!

[graeme4130]

DonkeyApple said:

vinnie83 said:

DonkeyApple said:

That's fine, this is a very subjective area and there is no real answer so there's certainly no purpose in people stressing. It's just the voicing of opinions.

But no one ever mentioned 'average' anything. I've no idea where that came from. But I suspect you'd agree that in the GP, lawyer, accountant scenario it would be unusual to find one who could spend £1m+ on a car such as a P1 but not remotely inconceivable to fund more than one who owns an MP12 or 458. These are cars which are within reach of large numbers of professionals if this is their desire. To me that makes them sports cars.

I can agree with anyone who argues the above point for a 911 turbo - even as the owner of one, I can admit it is divided between sports and supercar.

I still feel a 458 is the reserve of those that earn well above even someone who I would consider to be well off. For example, the average dentist associate probably earns between £60k and £90k - they could afford a 458 no more than someone on £25k can afford the 320d they have leased to impress the neighbours with.

Finance has given such a false impression of affordability in this day and age. In my opinion, you can afford it if you could have paid cash, but chose not to.

Anyone who has to finance it (like many dentists I know - earning £65k at age 24 gives such a false sense of wealth!) can't really afford the car (or afford it yet, in the case of the dentists).

The problem is that you now see many people driving these cars that have obtained them through leasing them, giving the public the false impression that they are far more affordable than they really are.


ETA this conversation can be continued in a thread I started about it

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by vinnie83 on Tuesday 29th October 23:38

But why are you hung up on bottom end dentist incomes or any average incomes?

I can't see what you are getting at.

There are dentists clearing £500 in London, I don't see how junior dentists in Leicester are relevant. Both because they are too young to have accumulated any wealth and have higher monthly bills.

In your example you need to focus on the 50 year old who has just stopped paying £40k a year in school fees, has filled his pension and wants his dream car, a Ferrari. Easily obtainable.

We aren't talking average, never have been.

They will build thousands of these cars and thousands will buy them.

The fact that you say people lease them, for me, proves the point.

In the same context that 'dentists earn £500k', I know builders that earn £500k too, but it's not a fair representation of the trade or role
I think a bog standard NHS dentist earn in the region of £45-55k, and I'd suggest they outnumber significantly the upper end of the scale where the cosmetic dentists sit earning in the £100's of £k.
If you happen to own a practice or two, then surely that makes you more a 'businessman' more than a dentist, no ?

Anyway, regardless of that, I personally consider a 458 a supercar and significantly out of reach of the 'average' joe
The running costs are actually not horrendous in comparison to the standard deposit/balloon finance that Ferrari offer

[vinnie83]

graeme4130 said:

In the same context that 'dentists earn £500k', I know builders that earn £500k too, but it's not a fair representation of the trade or role
I think a bog standard NHS dentist earn in the region of £45-55k, and I'd suggest they outnumber significantly the upper end of the scale where the cosmetic dentists sit earning in the £100's of £k.
If you happen to own a practice or two, then surely that makes you more a 'businessman' more than a dentist, no ?

Anyway, regardless of that, I personally consider a 458 a supercar and significantly out of reach of the 'average' joe
The running costs are actually not horrendous in comparison to the standard deposit/balloon finance that Ferrari offer

Exactly the point I tried to make, and the comment you made about the practice owners not earning money by being dentists but business people is a very good and valid point.

NHS dentist will earn £55-65k. A dental 'associate' (self employed but works for the practice) can earn more if they specialise in something like implants etc. But by definition, if they are specialists, they aren't 'average' dentists.

A dentist who owns their practice will earn probably 50% more from their own work by not only receiving 50% of the value of their work (not double as you are now responsible for your own staffing and equipment costs)... any additional income is from other dentists who work at the business you own.

I remember looking at finance costs for a new 458 as someone I know is getting a new one on a lease/HP arrangement.

IIRC it was something like £3,500 per month. IIRC I managed to get it down to ~£3,500 per month. That means that to just pay the monthly installments you would need to gross ~£60,000. This is before fuel, servicing and insurance.

You'd probably want somewhere to park it too... like a house... and some food, clothes etc..

So in reality, you would really need to earn well over £100k to comfortably afford the car.

So - supercar cost, supercar looks, supercar performance... yep, it's a supercar!

[B'stard Child]

I've forgotten - been too long fixing it

[graeme4130]

vinnie83 said:

graeme4130 said:

In the same context that 'dentists earn £500k', I know builders that earn £500k too, but it's not a fair representation of the trade or role
I think a bog standard NHS dentist earn in the region of £45-55k, and I'd suggest they outnumber significantly the upper end of the scale where the cosmetic dentists sit earning in the £100's of £k.
If you happen to own a practice or two, then surely that makes you more a 'businessman' more than a dentist, no ?

Anyway, regardless of that, I personally consider a 458 a supercar and significantly out of reach of the 'average' joe
The running costs are actually not horrendous in comparison to the standard deposit/balloon finance that Ferrari offer

Exactly the point I tried to make, and the comment you made about the practice owners not earning money by being dentists but business people is a very good and valid point.

NHS dentist will earn £55-65k. A dental 'associate' (self employed but works for the practice) can earn more if they specialise in something like implants etc. But by definition, if they are specialists, they aren't 'average' dentists.

A dentist who owns their practice will earn probably 50% more from their own work by not only receiving 50% of the value of their work (not double as you are now responsible for your own staffing and equipment costs)... any additional income is from other dentists who work at the business you own.

I remember looking at finance costs for a new 458 as someone I know is getting a new one on a lease/HP arrangement.

IIRC it was something like £3,500 per month. IIRC I managed to get it down to ~£3,500 per month. That means that to just pay the monthly installments you would need to gross ~£60,000. This is before fuel, servicing and insurance.

You'd probably want somewhere to park it too... like a house... and some food, clothes etc..

So in reality, you would really need to earn well over £100k to comfortably afford the car.

So - supercar cost, supercar looks, supercar performance... yep, it's a supercar!

As someone once said, "you can sleep in your car, but you can't race your house"

This is becoming one of the biggest off topic tangent threads ever. We should rename it to 'who can afford a supercar' ! haha

You're right about the finance though, it's scary
For a £200k car, you get a 3year balloon figure of around £120k, so with a £40k deposit or PX, this leaves you the remaining £40k to find over three years at circa 8%, so it's not as massive as £3500/month leasing, but it's still a very scary contractual obligation to step into

Edited by graeme4130 on Wednesday 27th November 11:31

Edited by graeme4130 on Wednesday 27th November 11:36

[Ali_T]

slipstream 1985 said:

you get used to speed and acceleration. even giving mates a lift you become convinced the car isnt running right yet despite them withering in fear grabbing the jesus handles.

I've not had a super car, though driven a handful, and I never believed this would be true but after two 330bhp rally reps, they feel like normal cars now. It's only when you get into a courtesy car or the other half's that you appreciate getting back in your own, at least for a couple of days…

As for who can afford a super car. Who cares? They're lucky buggers but at least they're keeping the roads looking interesting and not full of white diesel rep mobiles and small Korean hatchbacks.

Edited by Ali_T on Wednesday 27th November 12:03

Edited by Ali_T on Wednesday 27th November 12:06

[vinnie83]

graeme4130 said:

vinnie83 said:

graeme4130 said:

In the same context that 'dentists earn £500k', I know builders that earn £500k too, but it's not a fair representation of the trade or role
I think a bog standard NHS dentist earn in the region of £45-55k, and I'd suggest they outnumber significantly the upper end of the scale where the cosmetic dentists sit earning in the £100's of £k.
If you happen to own a practice or two, then surely that makes you more a 'businessman' more than a dentist, no ?

Anyway, regardless of that, I personally consider a 458 a supercar and significantly out of reach of the 'average' joe
The running costs are actually not horrendous in comparison to the standard deposit/balloon finance that Ferrari offer

Exactly the point I tried to make, and the comment you made about the practice owners not earning money by being dentists but business people is a very good and valid point.

NHS dentist will earn £55-65k. A dental 'associate' (self employed but works for the practice) can earn more if they specialise in something like implants etc. But by definition, if they are specialists, they aren't 'average' dentists.

A dentist who owns their practice will earn probably 50% more from their own work by not only receiving 50% of the value of their work (not double as you are now responsible for your own staffing and equipment costs)... any additional income is from other dentists who work at the business you own.

I remember looking at finance costs for a new 458 as someone I know is getting a new one on a lease/HP arrangement.

IIRC it was something like £3,500 per month. IIRC I managed to get it down to ~£3,500 per month. That means that to just pay the monthly installments you would need to gross ~£60,000. This is before fuel, servicing and insurance.

You'd probably want somewhere to park it too... like a house... and some food, clothes etc..

So in reality, you would really need to earn well over £100k to comfortably afford the car.

So - supercar cost, supercar looks, supercar performance... yep, it's a supercar!

As someone once said, "you can sleep in your car, but you can't race your house"

This is becoming one of the biggest off topic tangent threads ever. We should rename it to 'who can afford a supercar' ! haha

You're right about the finance though, it's scary
For a £200k car, you get a 3year balloon figure of around £120k, so with a £40k deposit or PX, this leaves you the remaining £40k to find over three years at circa 8%, so it's not as massive as £3500/month leasing, but it's still a very scary contractual obligation to step into

Edited by graeme4130 on Wednesday 27th November 11:31

Edited by graeme4130 on Wednesday 27th November 11:36

Ah I may be wrong about the finance, I'm no expert on car hire purchase/lease deals.

He is paying £2k a month on his 991 so thought 3.5k didn't sound crazy.

So that would be £40k down + £1253x36 = total of £85,000 to borrow someone elses car for 3 years.

I doubt your average dentist/GP can afford that loss without sacrificing financial stability (I'm not talking about a 60 year old GP with no mortgage and lots of savings).

ETA he always lets me drive his new cars, so I'll report back with how it felt vs. a 997.1 turbo - hopefully that will be more back on topic!

[Vladimir]

Only driven an F355 a fair bit. Sounded great, looked great, quite hard work to drive.
The FQ 360 I tested was quicker and very easy to drive. That might be considered dull but I found it intoxicating.

[vinnie83]

Vladimir said:

Only driven an F355 a fair bit. Sounded great, looked great, quite hard work to drive.
The FQ 360 I tested was quicker and very easy to drive. That might be considered dull but I found it intoxicating.

I drove an F430 a few years back. It was notably slower than the 997, and a CL55 AMG on a test drive (had a big mercedes badge as front number plate) was able to keep up... but my god was it one hell of an experience to drive vs. the turbo.

Turbo easily the more capable and better car as a car, but as an experience the Ferrari won hands down.

This didn't make the chap who once tried it in his F430 whilst having his lovely young blonde lady friend in the passenger seat feel any better though!