XKR v C63 v M3 v 997
Discussion
GALLARDOGUY said:
At 25k I'd be in a Maserati Gransport all day long.
Ferrari engine, real carbon fibre interior that hasn't dated particularly, lovely looks, lovely noise and unlike the others on this list, rare, so it's an event everytime use it.
Runner up C63. I've got one. Great daily if you can afford the fuel.
I love my GS but wouldn't recommend it to the OP if he's doing lots of town driving, the CC box is infuriating in stop start traffic and a very fast way to burn through expensive clutches, but when it's out on the open road it's amazing.Ferrari engine, real carbon fibre interior that hasn't dated particularly, lovely looks, lovely noise and unlike the others on this list, rare, so it's an event everytime use it.
Runner up C63. I've got one. Great daily if you can afford the fuel.
Given the OP's choices i think it's difficult to car far wrong, surely the only way of deciding is to try and spend some time in each and see which is preferred, i'm sure it would be different from one person to the next
macky17 said:
steve singh said:
Behave - only in the extreme corners of pistonheads can someone say the M3 and C63 are cars designed for shopping runs - not everyone is Lewis Hamilton and want to sit in car that is completely uncompromising and back breaking on anything but the most rarest and smoothest roads !
I'm guessing you haven't driven many Nobels, Caterhams or TVRs. In any case, the whole point of 2 cars is that you can pick and choose your roads/journeys and play to the 2nd car's strengths.I think you would have to pretty hardcore to have a second car like the ones described and then be equally single minded waving the family goodbye on the weekend whilst you set of for a hoon - always thinking I need to go back soon and I hardly drive this car is it really worth it?...
toasty said:
Up to £25k to spend incl P/Ex, no pressing need for back seats, daily driver (mostly in town unfortunately).
Currently got an E46 M3 which is fine but got a hankering for something newer.
Are any or all of the above a worthwhile upgrade?
Opinions?
I went from an E46 M3 (well 2..) to a 997 C2S. For a drivers car, there is nothing better in that list. Currently got an E46 M3 which is fine but got a hankering for something newer.
Are any or all of the above a worthwhile upgrade?
Opinions?
Sometimes miss proper back seats and then the C63 is looking quite an attractive proposition. Went out in a 571 bhp CLS AMG last night, BL00DY HELL thats fast!
fastgerman said:
I went from an E46 M3 (well 2..) to a 997 C2S. For a drivers car, there is nothing better in that list.
Sometimes miss proper back seats and then the C63 is looking quite an attractive proposition. Went out in a 571 bhp CLS AMG last night, BL00DY HELL thats fast!
I too have owned a couple of M3s and one 911 Carrera and trust me, the 6.3 litre unit in the MB humbles them both. Eurocharge and other remapping businesses can give/have consistently given C63s 520bhp and 495lbft. Thread: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...Sometimes miss proper back seats and then the C63 is looking quite an attractive proposition. Went out in a 571 bhp CLS AMG last night, BL00DY HELL thats fast!
That makes a very,very fast car with masses of torque which is easy to schlep around town or go loopy on the autobahn.Handling's pretty good as well.
goldblum said:
fastgerman said:
I went from an E46 M3 (well 2..) to a 997 C2S. For a drivers car, there is nothing better in that list.
Sometimes miss proper back seats and then the C63 is looking quite an attractive proposition. Went out in a 571 bhp CLS AMG last night, BL00DY HELL thats fast!
I too have owned a couple of M3s and one 911 Carrera and trust me, the 6.3 litre unit in the MB humbles them both. Eurocharge and other remapping businesses can give/have consistently given C63s 520bhp and 495lbft. Thread: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...Sometimes miss proper back seats and then the C63 is looking quite an attractive proposition. Went out in a 571 bhp CLS AMG last night, BL00DY HELL thats fast!
That makes a very,very fast car with masses of torque which is easy to schlep around town or go loopy on the autobahn.Handling's pretty good as well.
Also the M3 / C63 could both be supercharged too if finances allow
steve singh said:
goldblum said:
fastgerman said:
I went from an E46 M3 (well 2..) to a 997 C2S. For a drivers car, there is nothing better in that list.
Sometimes miss proper back seats and then the C63 is looking quite an attractive proposition. Went out in a 571 bhp CLS AMG last night, BL00DY HELL thats fast!
I too have owned a couple of M3s and one 911 Carrera and trust me, the 6.3 litre unit in the MB humbles them both. Eurocharge and other remapping businesses can give/have consistently given C63s 520bhp and 495lbft. Thread: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...Sometimes miss proper back seats and then the C63 is looking quite an attractive proposition. Went out in a 571 bhp CLS AMG last night, BL00DY HELL thats fast!
That makes a very,very fast car with masses of torque which is easy to schlep around town or go loopy on the autobahn.Handling's pretty good as well.
Also the M3 / C63 could both be supercharged too if finances allow
fastgerman said:
Yes 6.2, although the one I went out is yesterday was a 13 plate with a 5 and 1/2 litre bi-turbo. 63 just sounds nice I guess
Yep 6.2 when it was a 6.3, still a 6.3 when it's a 5.5 tt! Shudder to think what a simple remap could tune one of those. Have you been out in a 6.3 na? It's an awesome brute. Where the M3 is all delicate and balanced the C63 is powerslides and grunt. But the character of the engine itself is something else. I have the same engine in my E class and it's absolutely addictive.Had a C2, XKR and an M3, albeit of older vintages, but not the Merc. I would say the Merc and the M3 are special versions of very ordinary cars but the Pork and and Jag were conceived as something rather more special in the first place.
Out of the 4 the only one I'd look back on and admire as a looker is the Jag. I'd have another in heartbeat but it would have to be a 5.0 XKR.
Out of the 4 the only one I'd look back on and admire as a looker is the Jag. I'd have another in heartbeat but it would have to be a 5.0 XKR.
- The M3s Ive driven have all been on track and whilst that always dwarfs the engine performance, I think they do lack some low down punch but very impressive re the punishment they could sustain, and with very high limits.
- Have never driven a C63, but I love the noise they make, and really subscribe to the small car, big engine thing - it would probably be my choice of the 2 saloons here, simply because of the fun factor on the road.
- Porsche 997 C2S would do it all, be as quick as the 2 saloons in a straight line and have more `depths` to explore over time, but its just not as special as the Jag.
- Having driven many miles in the newest XKR, I can say that in my opinion they look a bit `mature` in metallic green and particularly red, but none of the passengers seemed to complain about that when it was booted in 2nd gear at 3000 rpm. Their sentences usually got cut short and replaced with a fu... The `black` editions really do look a lot more up to date, although the satnav and entertainment system screen felt even more out of date in these latest cars.
For a car to drive around town, blat fast A roads, win traffic light grand prix* and generally entertain with a blip of the throttle, its hard to beat at the price point. The engine is a bit of a masterpiece, torque from no revs, worth revving out, sounds great.
- Have never driven a C63, but I love the noise they make, and really subscribe to the small car, big engine thing - it would probably be my choice of the 2 saloons here, simply because of the fun factor on the road.
- Porsche 997 C2S would do it all, be as quick as the 2 saloons in a straight line and have more `depths` to explore over time, but its just not as special as the Jag.
- Having driven many miles in the newest XKR, I can say that in my opinion they look a bit `mature` in metallic green and particularly red, but none of the passengers seemed to complain about that when it was booted in 2nd gear at 3000 rpm. Their sentences usually got cut short and replaced with a fu... The `black` editions really do look a lot more up to date, although the satnav and entertainment system screen felt even more out of date in these latest cars.
For a car to drive around town, blat fast A roads, win traffic light grand prix* and generally entertain with a blip of the throttle, its hard to beat at the price point. The engine is a bit of a masterpiece, torque from no revs, worth revving out, sounds great.
- It is not going to beat much in the wet - I always found it really struggled for traction, indeed on even slightly greasy roads I felt the chassis was out of its depth and always felt on a knife edge at higher speeds. Something like the porsche would murder it in driver confidence stakes.
goldblum said:
Yep 6.2 when it was a 6.3, still a 6.3 when it's a 5.5 tt! Shudder to think what a simple remap could tune one of those. Have you been out in a 6.3 na? It's an awesome brute. Where the M3 is all delicate and balanced the C63 is powerslides and grunt. But the character of the engine itself is something else. I have the same engine in my E class and it's absolutely addictive.
Here's your answer.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
690bhp. 950nm.
Adequate.
GALLARDOGUY said:
Not for £25k...There is a CLS55 AMG in the ads for less than £20k with nearly 600bhp and 620lb/ft though....
Jules.
I switched from a 2012 997 GTS Cabriolet to a 2013 C63 AMG. It's just finished runing in, and I've not had much of a chance for a play yet, but I certainly don't regret the change. I love the engine in the Mercedes, and never quite felt the same about the Porsche's.
I'd assumed that I'd be find living with the 911's practicality, but I wasn't, it just ended up annoying me too often.
I missed the handling out in Northumberland the other week, but it's so rare that I am up there, or on those sort of roads, that I'm much happier with the compromises of the C63.
I'd assumed that I'd be find living with the 911's practicality, but I wasn't, it just ended up annoying me too often.
I missed the handling out in Northumberland the other week, but it's so rare that I am up there, or on those sort of roads, that I'm much happier with the compromises of the C63.
Wills2 said:
As nice as the c63 is some of the daft comments you read day in day out regarding it vs the M3 fly in the face of reality.
Oh the OP needs to get a 997!
So after you'd owned both for a while, you discounted the Mercedes?Oh the OP needs to get a 997!
I had an M3, then an RS4, then a 997 GTS, and now the C63. I obviously prefer the Mercedes, or else I'd not have switched. I half susppect that you are giving your definitive views without having lived with the various options yet.
k and gave 55 mpg!I was in the same boat around a year ago. I went for the C63 after driving the M3. I had booked to drive a Porsche but decided I wanted something newer and the equivalent year Porsche was just too much for me.
Seriously, you need to sit in a C63 and give it a rev. As soon as I did that the car was pretty much sold to me. It really is one of the best sounding cars out there. Its also a very comfortable and docile daily cruiser so you do get the best of both worlds.
I drove an M3 DCT and the most impressive thing was the gear box, this is streets ahead of the C63 but to be honest its the only area I found it better. Alright, so the handling is also better but for the majority of driving the ride in the C63 is much nicer. The other thing I noticed with the M3 was the wind and tyre noise- very very noisy at 70-80mph. No such problem in the C63, lovely and quiet.
I have also added the Eurocharged performance map to my car. Can't recommend it enough, it has improved the car measurably. It made the gear changes much smoother and added a bit more noise (as if it needed it). Eurocharge quote an additional 50bhp taking it to 500bhp and although I haven't had my car dyno'd it feels every bit 500bhp. I have no doubt it would strip an M3 in a straight line.
Overall, happy I went for the C63.
I also love the looks!
Seriously, you need to sit in a C63 and give it a rev. As soon as I did that the car was pretty much sold to me. It really is one of the best sounding cars out there. Its also a very comfortable and docile daily cruiser so you do get the best of both worlds.
I drove an M3 DCT and the most impressive thing was the gear box, this is streets ahead of the C63 but to be honest its the only area I found it better. Alright, so the handling is also better but for the majority of driving the ride in the C63 is much nicer. The other thing I noticed with the M3 was the wind and tyre noise- very very noisy at 70-80mph. No such problem in the C63, lovely and quiet.
I have also added the Eurocharged performance map to my car. Can't recommend it enough, it has improved the car measurably. It made the gear changes much smoother and added a bit more noise (as if it needed it). Eurocharge quote an additional 50bhp taking it to 500bhp and although I haven't had my car dyno'd it feels every bit 500bhp. I have no doubt it would strip an M3 in a straight line.
Overall, happy I went for the C63.
I also love the looks!
Thought I would add my feedback. I have had 2 M3s, a C63 coupe and 4 911's so far....
I had a M3 CSL and the M3 E92 so perhaps you have similar wants to me. I value handling, then performance, build quality, then style.
I'll start with my E92, it was a great car and although not as mad as the CSL it was the better car by far, simply because I could live with it everyday. They build quality was great, the tech worked well and the engine/chassis/gearbox combo was brilliant. As an everyday car that could also provide thrills and a smile when you needed it, it was perfect.
The C63. Now I'll be honest, as many have said on here the engine is just a work of art and is indeed better than an M3. But, and there are quite a few buts, the build quality was appalling, and the chassis and gearbox are no match for an M3. The 500bhp salon above, I doubt that car can deploy that power on any kind of UK road except a track or a 100% dry day. It will let go in most gears (good fun). If you want raw crazy "unusable" power, (I know someone will flame me for that) then buy one. However, as a complete car the C63s is (IMHO), really lacking. I sold mine after 4 months....
911's. OK I am biased, I have had 2 997s (Gen 1 and 2) and they are fantastic. There is a reason why so many PHs on here are saying get a 997... As a package they are the most fun I think you can have with your pants on. A true sports car that can also take you to the shops (should your wife make you go, oh that's just me then) and entertain you on the way home. Get one onto a truly great road and I warn you, no other car will do again. (I'm on my 4th Porsche).
Not ever had an XKR, as for me they are a GT and not the kind of car I would go for, (could also be why I didn't like my C63 much). Horses for courses.
It will depend on what you want from a car, and only a drive in each will of course really settle the question, hope that helps in some way?
What a great time to be a car buyer!
Tom.
I had a M3 CSL and the M3 E92 so perhaps you have similar wants to me. I value handling, then performance, build quality, then style.
I'll start with my E92, it was a great car and although not as mad as the CSL it was the better car by far, simply because I could live with it everyday. They build quality was great, the tech worked well and the engine/chassis/gearbox combo was brilliant. As an everyday car that could also provide thrills and a smile when you needed it, it was perfect.
The C63. Now I'll be honest, as many have said on here the engine is just a work of art and is indeed better than an M3. But, and there are quite a few buts, the build quality was appalling, and the chassis and gearbox are no match for an M3. The 500bhp salon above, I doubt that car can deploy that power on any kind of UK road except a track or a 100% dry day. It will let go in most gears (good fun). If you want raw crazy "unusable" power, (I know someone will flame me for that) then buy one. However, as a complete car the C63s is (IMHO), really lacking. I sold mine after 4 months....
911's. OK I am biased, I have had 2 997s (Gen 1 and 2) and they are fantastic. There is a reason why so many PHs on here are saying get a 997... As a package they are the most fun I think you can have with your pants on. A true sports car that can also take you to the shops (should your wife make you go, oh that's just me then) and entertain you on the way home. Get one onto a truly great road and I warn you, no other car will do again. (I'm on my 4th Porsche).
Not ever had an XKR, as for me they are a GT and not the kind of car I would go for, (could also be why I didn't like my C63 much). Horses for courses.
It will depend on what you want from a car, and only a drive in each will of course really settle the question, hope that helps in some way?
What a great time to be a car buyer!
Tom.
Edited by findtomdotcom on Friday 8th November 12:46
Edited by findtomdotcom on Friday 8th November 13:18
findtomdotcom said:
Thought I would add my feedback. I have had 2 M3s, a C63 coupe and 3 911's so far....
The 500bhp salon above, I doubt that car can deploy that power on any kind of UK road except a track or a 100% dry day. It will let go in most gears (good fun).
Tom.
I must admit, this is true. You can only really use the power properly in the summer and at times in the winter it can feel a bit much. My car doesn't have the LSD either and it seems to wheel spin without even trying which can become annoying at times.The 500bhp salon above, I doubt that car can deploy that power on any kind of UK road except a track or a 100% dry day. It will let go in most gears (good fun).
Tom.
What do you make of your 991 C2S? This is what I'm hoping to get in about a years time.
Andrew
I didn't have LSD on my C63 and I think that was a mistake.....
What do I make of my 991? (I have a C2 not a C2S), outstanding. Utterly, utterly brilliant. The handling is precise, the power delivery addictive, (you will get that coming from a C63) and the build quality a real mark up from the 997 (which was not a badly built car at all).
I was originally looking a C2S because, (and I'll be honest), that's what I had always had. However, I have PDK and Sports Plus in this car with makes it near as dammit as fast to 60 as C2S, but it is cheaper to run and cost £25k less to buy..... Plus on my car I got lots of options too (so win/win).
Do it, you will not regret it!
Tom.
(I just realised, that should say I have had 5 Porsches, 4 of them were 911s, so I am a little biased/addicted).
.
What do I make of my 991? (I have a C2 not a C2S), outstanding. Utterly, utterly brilliant. The handling is precise, the power delivery addictive, (you will get that coming from a C63) and the build quality a real mark up from the 997 (which was not a badly built car at all).
I was originally looking a C2S because, (and I'll be honest), that's what I had always had. However, I have PDK and Sports Plus in this car with makes it near as dammit as fast to 60 as C2S, but it is cheaper to run and cost £25k less to buy..... Plus on my car I got lots of options too (so win/win).
Do it, you will not regret it!
Tom.
(I just realised, that should say I have had 5 Porsches, 4 of them were 911s, so I am a little biased/addicted).
.
Edited by findtomdotcom on Sunday 10th November 09:36
steve singh said:
C63 is good - but I think it's the facelift you want and not sure how much they are.
I've had 3-4 E46 M3s, Porsches of various types, a Merc c class for the other half, and few hot hatches.
I purchased an E92 m3 and sounds like I went through the same thought process as you.
This is how it will go down if you purchase the e92...
Week one - you sit in it and you'll think beautiful cabin, sublime manual gearbox and amazing handling.
Week two - you'll start to think hmmm the e46 sounded better - then you'll google search
Week three - you do the £100 exhaust mod and think OMG this sounds like a Maserati and no drone
Week four - damn this is faster than the e46, more torque lower down and mid range pull is huge
Week five - omg, this power combined with the handling, friggin love this car
Week six - wow i can change the settings via idrive and with edc i can have a cruiser ride or a beast - I LOVE THIS CAR IT IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!
Well, that's what I went through !!!,
Update - well I plumped for the M3 in the end as I found this one in mint condition. Exhaust mod is already done so went through the above in the first week and it's all true. I've had 3-4 E46 M3s, Porsches of various types, a Merc c class for the other half, and few hot hatches.
I purchased an E92 m3 and sounds like I went through the same thought process as you.
This is how it will go down if you purchase the e92...
Week one - you sit in it and you'll think beautiful cabin, sublime manual gearbox and amazing handling.
Week two - you'll start to think hmmm the e46 sounded better - then you'll google search
Week three - you do the £100 exhaust mod and think OMG this sounds like a Maserati and no drone
Week four - damn this is faster than the e46, more torque lower down and mid range pull is huge
Week five - omg, this power combined with the handling, friggin love this car
Week six - wow i can change the settings via idrive and with edc i can have a cruiser ride or a beast - I LOVE THIS CAR IT IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!
Well, that's what I went through !!!,
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