XKR v C63 v M3 v 997
Discussion
kambites said:
The XKR is pure GT-car
Bit more to it than that, it can be hustled a fair bit when the need arises but yes, it's less focussed for sure than a 911. I've got an XKR, it consumes Scottish B-roads more eagerly and competently than a lot of people think. Utter bargain at the prices they are now and an incredibly easy car to live with for day to day duties too.I've seen at least one 997 C4S around £25k now though, I almost wish I'd held out and tried some of them but I love the V8 growl too much.
If it were me I'd narrow the choice (from those in the OP) down to these two; the others are very accomplished machines, no arguments there, just for me it's the XKR and 911 that feel "special".
kambites said:
The XKR is pure GT-car
I would refine that statement to say that the X100 XKR was pure GT-car.The X150 has much more of a sporting edge and range of capabilities than its predecessor.
8bit said:
Bit more to it than that, it can be hustled a fair bit when the need arises but yes, it's less focussed for sure than a 911. I've got an XKR, it consumes Scottish B-roads more eagerly and competently than a lot of people think. Utter bargain at the prices they are now and an incredibly easy car to live with for day to day duties too.
I've seen at least one 997 C4S around £25k now though, I almost wish I'd held out and tried some of them but I love the V8 growl too much.
If it were me I'd narrow the choice (from those in the OP) down to these two; the others are very accomplished machines, no arguments there, just for me it's the XKR and 911 that feel "special".
I've seen at least one 997 C4S around £25k now though, I almost wish I'd held out and tried some of them but I love the V8 growl too much.
If it were me I'd narrow the choice (from those in the OP) down to these two; the others are very accomplished machines, no arguments there, just for me it's the XKR and 911 that feel "special".
I'd agree with all of that.
996 turbo very fast cars especially with a remap just a bit dull unless you are really moving ! sl55 watch out for electrical gremlins make a great sound and its a top engine with a remap and pulley they really go well but you may need a fortune to run one !owned both so not just heresay
vinnie83 said:
996 turbo has been mentioned a couple of times, but (flame suit on) the interior is terribly dated now - if you are looking for something that feels more modern than the E46 M3, I would look elsewhere.
The 997 cabin was leaps ahead of the 996.
But since the 996 turbo has been mentioned, it would be rude not to mention the SL55 AMG - and you'll have change left over for a remap and pulley upgrade
The interior in those has aged surprisingly well for a 10 year old design, and I think the car looks far better than any SL facelift since.
Makes a hell of a noise too!
The 997 cabin was leaps ahead of the 996.
But since the 996 turbo has been mentioned, it would be rude not to mention the SL55 AMG - and you'll have change left over for a remap and pulley upgrade
The interior in those has aged surprisingly well for a 10 year old design, and I think the car looks far better than any SL facelift since.
Makes a hell of a noise too!
8bit said:
Bit more to it than that, it can be hustled a fair bit when the need arises but yes, it's less focussed for sure than a 911. I've got an XKR, it consumes Scottish B-roads more eagerly and competently than a lot of people think. Utter bargain at the prices they are now and an incredibly easy car to live with for day to day duties too.
I've seen at least one 997 C4S around £25k now though, I almost wish I'd held out and tried some of them but I love the V8 growl too much.
If it were me I'd narrow the choice (from those in the OP) down to these two; the others are very accomplished machines, no arguments there, just for me it's the XKR and 911 that feel "special".
Thanks 8bit, I saw your Reader's Cars thread and it just increased the want factor for an XKR. I've seen at least one 997 C4S around £25k now though, I almost wish I'd held out and tried some of them but I love the V8 growl too much.
If it were me I'd narrow the choice (from those in the OP) down to these two; the others are very accomplished machines, no arguments there, just for me it's the XKR and 911 that feel "special".
monthefish said:
kambites said:
The XKR is pure GT-car
I would refine that statement to say that the X100 XKR was pure GT-car.The X150 has much more of a sporting edge and range of capabilities than its predecessor.
8bit said:
Bit more to it than that, it can be hustled a fair bit when the need arises but yes, it's less focussed for sure than a 911. I've got an XKR, it consumes Scottish B-roads more eagerly and competently than a lot of people think. Utter bargain at the prices they are now and an incredibly easy car to live with for day to day duties too.
I've seen at least one 997 C4S around £25k now though, I almost wish I'd held out and tried some of them but I love the V8 growl too much.
If it were me I'd narrow the choice (from those in the OP) down to these two; the others are very accomplished machines, no arguments there, just for me it's the XKR and 911 that feel "special".
I've seen at least one 997 C4S around £25k now though, I almost wish I'd held out and tried some of them but I love the V8 growl too much.
If it were me I'd narrow the choice (from those in the OP) down to these two; the others are very accomplished machines, no arguments there, just for me it's the XKR and 911 that feel "special".
I'd agree with all of that.
I love this concluding paragraph from evo test of the c63 vs. e9x m3 saloon:
The depth of the M3’s talent, however, is telling. For point-to-point pace it easily matches the Merc but, more than that, it feels special doing it – accurate, agile, finely balanced, biddable – where the Merc is merely accomplished. In short, the M3 saloon is sharper, cuts deeper and will keep you hooked for longer.
The depth of the M3’s talent, however, is telling. For point-to-point pace it easily matches the Merc but, more than that, it feels special doing it – accurate, agile, finely balanced, biddable – where the Merc is merely accomplished. In short, the M3 saloon is sharper, cuts deeper and will keep you hooked for longer.
steve singh said:
monthefish said:
steve singh said:
monthefish said:
For me it'd be between the 997 or the XKR, and would depend on which type of driving was predominant. The 997 is the more sporty of the two, but I implore you to drive the XKR before making your mind up - it is a great machine and worlds apart from the old X100 XKR.
The merc and the BMW aren't special enough in my opinion.
I'm not sure how old the OP is, but no matter how good the Jag is, don't you feel that you have to be over 55 years old to get one - it's almost a precursor to retirement? The merc and the BMW aren't special enough in my opinion.
I'm aware that Jaguar did suffer an image problem in the past but anyone who is supposedly into their cars will be aware that it is no longer the case.
There isn't any model of the current Jaguar range that I wouldn't be happy to own, and I'm at least one generation below 55.
Seriously though I would never buy a skoda either no matter how good they are, and given the jag is around 270bhp per tonne (at a guess) then i couldn't overcome my internal brand perceptions and buy one - it's a car for my dad still !!!
What do you call a skoda with a sunroof...
The XKR is a terrific car. Throw away your brand prejudices and you will be much happier for it
kambites said:
For many people the badge is more important than the car it's attached to. In my experience there's little point in trying to change their minds.
But what does the xkr offer over a m3?Worse fuel economy, laughable rear seats, poorer quality based on reviews and a 5.0 engine that gives out less power than a 4.0 v8 by some degree until they put a supercharger on it ?
steve singh said:
kambites said:
For many people the badge is more important than the car it's attached to. In my experience there's little point in trying to change their minds.
But what does the xkr offer over a m3?steve singh said:
kambites said:
For many people the badge is more important than the car it's attached to. In my experience there's little point in trying to change their minds.
But what does the xkr offer over a m3?Worse fuel economy, laughable rear seats, poorer quality based on reviews and a 5.0 engine that gives out less power than a 4.0 v8 by some degree until they put a supercharger on it ?
Jaguar is more supple, better on a bumpy B road. More relaxing on a cross country drive. Better for long distances at high speeds and feeling refreshed afterwards. They feel more composed, more refined. You can make very rapid progress without feeling you are trying too hard. With the M3, you feel really "serious". With the XKR, you can enjoy it a bit more and still get there just as fast, maybe even faster.
And the 5.0 V8 supercharged Jaguar engine is probably one of the finest engines ever made IMO. It is EPIC. Definitely a better engine than ANY M3 IMO. Better than any Aston V8 as well.
monthefish said:
kambites said:
Who said a GT car can't be fun to throw down a B-road?
Not me. But you wouldn't choose a GT car if its sole purpose was to be thrown down a B road.
Or a low-end 911 for that matter (which is part of the reason I consider the basic 911 to be a GT not a sports car).
toppstuff said:
I am a BMW fan and I have had a couple of M3's, so I think I can comment…
Jaguar is more supple, better on a bumpy B road. More relaxing on a cross country drive. Better for long distances at high speeds and feeling refreshed afterwards. They feel more composed, more refined. You can make very rapid progress without feeling you are trying too hard. With the M3, you feel really "serious". With the XKR, you can enjoy it a bit more and still get there just as fast, maybe even faster.
And the 5.0 V8 supercharged Jaguar engine is probably one of the finest engines ever made IMO. It is EPIC. Definitely a better engine than ANY M3 IMO. Better than any Aston V8 as well.
I concur, there is a seriousness' to M3s. They urge you to drive faster, to be on it all of the time. They are definitely a 'masculine' car. I love them but can see the appeal of a supple Jaguar.Jaguar is more supple, better on a bumpy B road. More relaxing on a cross country drive. Better for long distances at high speeds and feeling refreshed afterwards. They feel more composed, more refined. You can make very rapid progress without feeling you are trying too hard. With the M3, you feel really "serious". With the XKR, you can enjoy it a bit more and still get there just as fast, maybe even faster.
And the 5.0 V8 supercharged Jaguar engine is probably one of the finest engines ever made IMO. It is EPIC. Definitely a better engine than ANY M3 IMO. Better than any Aston V8 as well.
As for the engine, supercharged E92 M3s with 600bhp+, so like for like, are even more epic and perfectly reliable.
kambites said:
monthefish said:
kambites said:
Who said a GT car can't be fun to throw down a B-road?
Not me. But you wouldn't choose a GT car if its sole purpose was to be thrown down a B road.
I definitely wouldn't choose an X100 XKR (nor a Bentley Conti GT or anything similar)
Have you driven an XKR? (X150)
steve singh said:
I love this concluding paragraph from evo test of the c63 vs. e9x m3 saloon:
The depth of the M3’s talent, however, is telling. For point-to-point pace it easily matches the Merc but, more than that, it feels special doing it – accurate, agile, finely balanced, biddable – where the Merc is merely accomplished. In short, the M3 saloon is sharper, cuts deeper and will keep you hooked for longer.
Caranddriver:The depth of the M3’s talent, however, is telling. For point-to-point pace it easily matches the Merc but, more than that, it feels special doing it – accurate, agile, finely balanced, biddable – where the Merc is merely accomplished. In short, the M3 saloon is sharper, cuts deeper and will keep you hooked for longer.
'But the C63 isn’t one-dimensional. Even though this car leads with its engine, every part of the C63 is commendable; just make sure you never drive an M3 on a racetrack if you shell out for a C63'
People still read EVO?
If I had an E46 M3, I would go for something very different. Depends how 'hard' you feel the BMW is and if you fancy a change.
I thought the E46 car was very supple and easy to drive. And to be honest, not that special. The engine was fine, steering was poor and it just felt a bit of a lard-arse on the road. If you like the quality, equipment etc then fine but if it were my money, I would go 911. Probably a 993 though.
And whoever said the Elise would not be hardcore enough if the M3 is your daily, I disagree. A standard car, perhaps but very few Elise's are completely standard...
I thought the E46 car was very supple and easy to drive. And to be honest, not that special. The engine was fine, steering was poor and it just felt a bit of a lard-arse on the road. If you like the quality, equipment etc then fine but if it were my money, I would go 911. Probably a 993 though.
And whoever said the Elise would not be hardcore enough if the M3 is your daily, I disagree. A standard car, perhaps but very few Elise's are completely standard...
ninjacost said:
996 turbo very fast cars especially with a remap just a bit dull unless you are really moving ! sl55 watch out for electrical gremlins make a great sound and its a top engine with a remap and pulley they really go well but you may need a fortune to run one !owned both so not just heresay
Yeah I had an E55 AMG and it did spend a fair bit of time back at the dealer - thankfully it had a warranty.vinnie83 said:
996 turbo has been mentioned a couple of times, but (flame suit on) the interior is terribly dated now - if you are looking for something that feels more modern than the E46 M3, I would look elsewhere.
The 997 cabin was leaps ahead of the 996.
But since the 996 turbo has been mentioned, it would be rude not to mention the SL55 AMG - and you'll have change left over for a remap and pulley upgrade
The interior in those has aged surprisingly well for a 10 year old design, and I think the car looks far better than any SL facelift since.
Makes a hell of a noise too!
The 997 cabin was leaps ahead of the 996.
But since the 996 turbo has been mentioned, it would be rude not to mention the SL55 AMG - and you'll have change left over for a remap and pulley upgrade
The interior in those has aged surprisingly well for a 10 year old design, and I think the car looks far better than any SL facelift since.
Makes a hell of a noise too!
I think you have to understand that either way (996 turbo or SL55) you're buying a car that cost ~£100,000 new and when things do go wrong, they cost a lot!
I still feel the 55K engine is the most brutal I have felt in any car I've driven... would love to drive a 65AMG to compare!
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