RE: Mercedes E63 AMG S: Review

[bobberz]

Amirhussain said:

BeirutTaxi said:

Amirhussain said:

£85k before options!!!!

Given how expensive a new VW is these days I don't think the price is a surprise.

Funny how no one is not saying fk all about the fact that this is twin turbo charged, but everyone got upset about the twin turbo V8 in the F10 M5!

Maybe because AMG actually managed to make it sound good?

[Offspeccer]

sagarich said:

WHAT! I can only just manage 330 miles from my weedy 2.0TFSI A3. That's it, I need an AMG for better economy... No wait, thats not right.

I am guessing the tank is smaller on an A3?

[Complex]

Offspeccer said:

I am guessing the tank is smaller on an A3?

Only by about 35 litres

[amokwa]

A Scotsman said:

No doubt this is one heck of a machine but living in Scotland it would have to be the RS6 with its 4WD.

Your prayers are answered, Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme or Continental WinterContact.

[cheddar]

bobberz said:

Amirhussain said:

Funny how no one is not saying fk all about the fact that this is twin turbo charged, but everyone got upset about the twin turbo V8 in the F10 M5!

Maybe because AMG actually managed to make it sound good?

We have a different perception and expectation of AMG comapred to BMW 'M' and became accustomed to high revving N/A screamers from BMW and big capacity 'throbbers' from Merc.

[Numeric]

I've always had a soft spot for the little Merc 4x4 the GLK - it would fit my life well and I just don't like the X1 at all and the X3 feels a bit, well X3 for me - but of course it's a no show - I do ponder how Merc have made such a lash of the 4x4 thing for right hand drive!

[blueSL]

Dan, our hapless author, seems to think the reason there's no 4WD option in the UK is because of some marketing decision. In fact, it's because of space constraints. The power takeoff for the front wheel drive occupies the same space as the steering box on a RHD car.

[Clivey]

blindswelledrat said:

Is that that really uncomfortable condition where pepperoni inexplicably comes out of your cock?

As for the comments about AWD: Come on chaps - this is an AMG. - It's supposed to be a wayward beast. Why even attempt to tame it? If you want traction, buy an RS6. I'd rather have RWD, an LSD and an "Off" button for the driver aids.

Oh, and the first person to claim that you "need" AWD for any weather conditions in the UK should burn their driving licence forthwith!

[Ari]

shortar53 said:

Last time I came down those roads, my dad left his roof down in Jedburgh and misplaced the only set of keys he has... we found them again, but his brakelights were fluttering...
.

Anyone?

[ellipsis]

Clivey said:

Oh, and the first person to claim that you "need" AWD for any weather conditions in the UK should burn their driving licence forthwith!

Evidently you haven't tried to put north of 500 bhp through two rear tyres on damp, wintery British roads.

The case for 4Matic in the UK is compelling. Even if physically impossible in the current E-class shell.

BMW finally woke up to potential demand for x-drive in the UK and have already hinted that the next M5 will be thus equipped.

Cue the calls of sacrilege...

We're not all driving gods and if you've paid for 585 bhp then you may actually wish to be able to use it all, from time to time.

[Ari]

ellipsis said:

BMW finally woke up to potential demand for x-drive in the UK and have already hinted that the next M5 will be thus equipped.

Cue the calls of sacrilege...
.

Would that be the M Division that stated categorically that there would never be a turbocharged or four wheel drive M car?

[iloveboost]

ellipsis said:

Evidently you haven't tried to put north of 500 bhp through two rear tyres on damp, wintery British roads.

The case for 4Matic in the UK is compelling. Even if physically impossible in the current E-class shell.

BMW finally woke up to potential demand for x-drive in the UK and have already hinted that the next M5 will be thus equipped.

Cue the calls of sacrilege...

We're not all driving gods and if you've paid for 585 bhp then you may actually wish to be able to use it all, from time to time.

I think I agree with you. Where cars spin the wheels in second gear in the wet there's a case for AWD. You're overlooking one massive advantage of not having the 4matic when there's severe snow tho: A day off work.

[Wills2]

rohrl said:

It’s not that unusual for the UK not to get certain 4wd models and it’s normally because the propshaft running forward from the central transfer box fouls the steering column. BMW has been doing 4wd 3-series in LHD since the mid 1980s and has never bothered with engineering it in RHD because it simply isn’t worth it. The UK climate is very mild and doesn’t warrant 4wd and the other RHD countries (Japan, Australia) don’t either.

Not true anymore the F30/31 is available with xdrive across a broad range of engines the 1 series is available with xdrive as well.

It's not about need it's about want hence the huge market we have for SUV type cars.

[Slow]

We get it rwd as obivioisly we are better drivers than the rest of the world.

[Clivey]

ellipsis said:

Evidently you haven't tried to put north of 500 bhp through two rear tyres on damp, wintery British roads.

Admittedly I haven't…but have done so in something with a power to weight ratio of 337BHP / ton, no TCS and 3 pedals. It's fun.

ellipsis said:

The case for 4Matic in the UK is compelling. Even if physically impossible in the current E-class shell.

It might "make sense", but AWD is far from being absolutely necessary. - The only time you'll be using full power in that kind of car is when you're driving for enjoyment and then why wouldn't you want the challenge of actually driving the car?

Besides, as I've said; the craziness is what sets an AMG Merc apart from a controlled, efficient Audi RS. - It's a unique selling point.

ellipsis said:

BMW finally woke up to potential demand for x-drive in the UK and have already hinted that the next M5 will be thus equipped.

Cue the calls of sacrilege…

The current model doesn't appeal to me anyway (auto only, electric handbrake, fake engine noise, turbo - WTF?)…the "sacrilege" occurred long ago. Philistines can already buy an X5/6M if they really don't care what the M division is supposed to be about and just want the biggest chunk of bling they can buy.

ellipsis said:

We're not all driving gods and if you've paid for 585 bhp then you may actually wish to be able to use it all, from time to time.

It depends on what your preferences are. - I'd rather have RWD and less weight than a boat load of tech driving the car for me even if I'm ultimately not as fast…because I enjoy the challenge of driving the car myself. I don't suppose you've read the test that Evo magazine conducted with the Lotus Exige S (the V6 supercharged model) and Nissan GTR?

[yellowbentines]

Cotic said:

You could have a Range Rover Sport Autobiography SDV8 for that!

And £4k spare.

And?....

Both are supremely comfortable large luxury cars that can carry 5 people and dogs/luggage - one is a mean Autobahn storming car with a twin turbo V8 petrol engine with 585bhp, the other is a diesel SUV?

I'm missing your point.

[iloveboost]

yellowbentines said:

And?....

Both are supremely comfortable large luxury cars that can carry 5 people and dogs/luggage - one is a mean Autobahn storming car with a twin turbo V8 petrol engine with 585bhp, the other is a diesel SUV?

I'm missing your point.

Cross shopping the V8 petrol version against the E63 AMG 4 matic makes a bit more sense. The Porsche Cayenne is the Range Range Sports natural rival. The new Jaguar SUV will probably use the same chassis as the Range Rover Sport as well and be slightly cheaper than it. Don't know when it's arriving though probably a year or so to go.

[ellipsis]

Clivey said:

ellipsis said:

Evidently you haven't tried to put north of 500 bhp through two rear tyres on damp, wintery British roads.

Admittedly I haven't…but have done so in something with a power to weight ratio of 337BHP / ton, no TCS and 3 pedals. It's fun.

ellipsis said:

The case for 4Matic in the UK is compelling. Even if physically impossible in the current E-class shell.

It might "make sense", but AWD is far from being absolutely necessary. - The only time you'll be using full power in that kind of car is when you're driving for enjoyment and then why wouldn't you want the challenge of actually driving the car?

Besides, as I've said; the craziness is what sets an AMG Merc apart from a controlled, efficient Audi RS. - It's a unique selling point.

ellipsis said:

BMW finally woke up to potential demand for x-drive in the UK and have already hinted that the next M5 will be thus equipped.

Cue the calls of sacrilege…

The current model doesn't appeal to me anyway (auto only, electric handbrake, fake engine noise, turbo - WTF?)…the "sacrilege" occurred long ago. Philistines can already buy an X5/6M if they really don't care what the M division is supposed to be about and just want the biggest chunk of bling they can buy.

ellipsis said:

We're not all driving gods and if you've paid for 585 bhp then you may actually wish to be able to use it all, from time to time.

It depends on what your preferences are. - I'd rather have RWD and less weight than a boat load of tech driving the car for me even if I'm ultimately not as fast…because I enjoy the challenge of driving the car myself. I don't suppose you've read the test that Evo magazine conducted with the Lotus Exige S (the V6 supercharged model) and Nissan GTR?

Hmmm,

I think we have to assume, reasonably, that E63/M5/RS6 buyers accept they are not buying a scalpel of a driving device. The ante has been upped to the point where these cars all develop a serious excess of power, subjectivity aside, in anyone's terms. What's more, by being turbocharged, they inherently produce a significant proportion of their power low down in the rev range thus making their output even more challenging to deploy in damp/cold conditions.

These are no longer the type of vehicle (were they ever?) where genuine driving finesse can be savoured, challenged or properly rewarded. The truth is, they are modern day muscle cars, albeit evolved/enhanced, call it whatever, but they are not about scything the perfect line between corners. Sure, they can do lurid power slides and in this segment, here alone I feel the case for RWD wins.

I am not an AWD aficionado but there comes a power level where joe-ordinary (Hi) would rather have more access to the power under the bonnet than to challenge the chassis of a car that is already challenging the laws of physics at nigh-on 2 tonnes.

The sacrilege did indeed occur long ago at M, but so what? I was merely warding off the the usual barrage misty-eyed nostalgia. The fact that the E63 can be had in either guise, 4Matic and non, although not in the UK is a good thing. Folks such as yourself can still have their perceived craziness if they want it, and those of us who perhaps access other machinery for their thrills can opt for the 'GTR' version. I gather M intend to offer both flavours too.

Clivey said:

It depends on what your preferences are. - I'd rather have RWD and less weight than a boat load of tech driving the car for me even if I'm ultimately not as fast…because I enjoy the challenge of driving the car myself. I don't suppose you've read the test that Evo magazine conducted with the Lotus Exige S (the V6 supercharged model) and Nissan GTR?

You are right. I would love to go back to my CSL days or be in a position to have the Exige V6 you mention alongside my other cars but for now have to accept the compromises I've made.

AWD wouldn't really blunt what is already a blunt instrument IMHO.

[disco666]

Rear for show
4 for go

I drive an XJR and an RS6, both 03 models.
The Jag has a few more hp (modified) and weighs a bit less, so should be quicker.
It is not, not by a long way.
The traction control light flickers away in anything other than bone dry conditions, while the Audi just grips and grips, and in my clumsy hands at least, is way faster point to point.

But the Jag is, of course, much more involving, and much more fun.

You pays your money...

[Dynamic Turtle]

Drove an E63 AMG S in saloon form around the MB world test centre last weekend and I have to say it is brutally fast - it melted my brain. And there I was thinking my mate's 997 GT3 was a rocket! Thank god for all the tech to help you stop the damn thing once it's going...

The steering felt "accurate" but had very little tarmac feedback - perhaps to be expected?
It felt a bit heavy around the corners.
By the time that mental powerplant starts roaring you have to start pulling off the gas (was I doing 130mph officer?).
You will almost certainly kill yourself or at the very least lose your license with a dab of the pedal.
All this power and the engine roar is cool, but when are you ever going to be able to use it? You can't put a car this heavy on track...
Also, way too much technology doing all the driving for you. And automatics feels plain weird - it changed up at 2500rpm!

In short, i just don't "get" this kind of car. My 3.5L V6 is obviously no comparison, but at least it FEELS fast (in terms of the racket it makes) going from the more usable 30-70mph range.

Amazing technology though. And what a roar...