RE: Toyota GT86 rally car confirmed
Discussion
CBR JGWRR said:
TankRS said:
CBR JGWRR said:
What the WRC needs is Pikes Peak machines...
Yeah, because things ended so well last time we had 'unlimited' machines battering the stages! 
The cars weren't the problem, only the crowds/ organisation. Ensure people aren't in the 'kill zones' if all goes tits up, and they could be driving at warp speeds and it wouldn't make a difference.
The top tier WRC definitely needs a boost, either through 'sexy' cars that make people want to watch it, whack a couple of coupes with sonorous engines or make them technically intriguing.
CBR JGWRR said:
TankRS said:
CBR JGWRR said:
What the WRC needs is Pikes Peak machines...
Yeah, because things ended so well last time we had 'unlimited' machines battering the stages! tuffer said:
Well I for one would take an interest again if there were plenty of 2 (rear) wheel drive cars in the field. It is not all about the outright pace, it is about watching something exciting. The lower formulas using front wheel drive hatches are like watching paint dry. The WRC cars are also sterile, they just seem to nail the throttle to the floor and go up and down the sequential box with barely a change in pitch. I do watch a bit of historic rallying on TV and the old Escorts, Sunbeams and 911's offer a far greater spectacle.
I agree that some factors of the top flight has become sterile, but the way the cars are these days reward the clean driving styles of Loeb & Ogier. Gone are the days of balls out sideways drivings of McRae, Vatanen etc.Its even noticeable down to club/national level.
I recently spoke to John Indri on why he was selling the Darrian for an Impreza S12. His answer was that as fun and spectacular as the Darrian is to drive, its not fast or clean enough to match the top boys in their WRC Foci & Impreza's. But fair play to John, he's given it a good go the last few years!!
Fantuzzi said:
Plus when you watch fans that view the WRC in 2013 they aren't trying to touch the cars/jump in front of them...
They are still at it these days - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMAqX10tlGE
this is from Portugal '98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AntTKfRO5po
Fantuzzi said:
The cars weren't the problem, only the crowds/ organisation. Ensure people aren't in the 'kill zones' if all goes tits up, and they could be driving at warp speeds and it wouldn't make a difference.
the cars were part of the problem, making them as wild as they were drew the bigger crowds, the organisers never anticipated such numbers meaning most stages were severely under manned or outnumbered at manned locations, leaving them have a free for all on the stages. Most of the in car footage shows fans standing too close to the stage in dangerous locations, even today!There's been a few fatalities at club level over the last few years. one of them was a guy standing in a 'safe' area & safe distance from the stage, yet the freak accident that occurred and the speed the car left the stage gave him no chance to move. you can never predict where and how a car will leave the stage, meaning there are never truly safe areas to spectate from.
Fantuzzi said:
The top tier WRC definitely needs a boost, either through 'sexy' cars that make people want to watch it, whack a couple of coupes with sonorous engines or make them technically intriguing.
I agree, there needs to be something, the most exciting thing we've had recently was the vicious noise the Mini's made!Hellbound said:
bobberz said:
Does not compute! 
If you ignore the PH waffle and check TMG's own press release;"The car, which will be known as the TMG GT86 CS-R3, will be built according to R3 regulations, meaning it will have a six-speed sequential gearbox, limited slip differential, modified engine, adapted brakes and other upgrades.
Drawing on the experience of developing the TMG GT86 CS-V3 race car for the Nürburgring-based VLN series, TMG engineers will modify the base car to the maximum level permitted within the regulations."
http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/en/latest-informa...
That engine will be modified...and I'm guessing to 250hp.
Makes me wonder what a stripped out FR-S/86/BRZ with 250-275 BHP would be like on the road? If/when used examples come down to a cheap enough price, I might just be tempted to find out!
Hmmm, a blower on one of these with all the sound deadening/insulation ripped out, all the seats removed with the driver's seat replaced by a thin, carbon/kevlar unit; could make an ideal car for weekend mountain blasts without spending Porsche GT3 or Ariel Atom money.
When I grew up manufacturers went rallying in the top class and simultaneously sold showroom cars that were a bit mental but still reflected well on the "lesser" models. A halo car they used to call it.
A Polo with some fat arches that goes like stink? Nah we don't need to capitalise on that money we spent rallying. Apparently the new Fiesta is good, but it would look better doing it with box arches. How much did Citroen spend through the Loeb years? What did we get? Some stickers on a C4.
So now I hear that Toyota are going rallying in a f
k-your-stupid-power-war RWD car just for the purposes of looking good, and I wonder if there might be some hope yet.
A Polo with some fat arches that goes like stink? Nah we don't need to capitalise on that money we spent rallying. Apparently the new Fiesta is good, but it would look better doing it with box arches. How much did Citroen spend through the Loeb years? What did we get? Some stickers on a C4.
So now I hear that Toyota are going rallying in a f
k-your-stupid-power-war RWD car just for the purposes of looking good, and I wonder if there might be some hope yet.
I've made this point before. 4wd should now be banned from the WRC. The Junior WRC championship should be front wheel drive and the main WRC should be rear wheel drive. This would mean a big difference when jumping from Junior WRC to WRC.
Also, it's about time we did away with superminis as WRC cars. Return to the 4-metre minimum car length, and specify a minimum wheelbase length too, so we don't get a repeat of the grotesque Peugeot 206 WRC with its elephantine bumpers.
Also, it's about time we did away with superminis as WRC cars. Return to the 4-metre minimum car length, and specify a minimum wheelbase length too, so we don't get a repeat of the grotesque Peugeot 206 WRC with its elephantine bumpers.
Fantuzzi said:
The top tier WRC definitely needs a boost, either through 'sexy' cars that make people want to watch it, whack a couple of coupes with sonorous engines or make them technically intriguing.
Technically intriguing.....have you ever watched the suspension of a current generation WRC at work. I've been lucky enough to both marshal and spectate at close quarters. Over rough ground and jumps the current cars are simply outstanding. They may look boring because they are THAT good.Aural stimulation is the ingredient that is lacking. Give me a 2L N/A over these 1600 turbos any day. That or a v6 a la 306 Cosworth, 6R4 or Stratos.
Also...if you don't think 2wd can compete at the top, look up the Rowlands brothers. Admittedly they are currently only national heros but I'm sure Ieuan will be posting times very close to the WRCs across identical stages this weekend. And that's in a Mk2 Escort with a Volvo motor.
GT86? Give me a Group 4 spec Escort any day, that said I'm really looking forward to seeing some RWD kit amongst the fiestas etc.
Mr. Potato Head said:
When I grew up manufacturers went rallying in the top class and simultaneously sold showroom cars that were a bit mental but still reflected well on the "lesser" models. A halo car they used to call it.
A Polo with some fat arches that goes like stink? Nah we don't need to capitalise on that money we spent rallying. Apparently the new Fiesta is good, but it would look better doing it with box arches. How much did Citroen spend through the Loeb years? What did we get? Some stickers on a C4.
So now I hear that Toyota are going rallying in a fk-your-stupid-power-war RWD car just for the purposes of looking good, and I wonder if there might be some hope yet.
I broadly agree with you. When rallying started to be populated by cars you couldn't actually buy is when I lost any interest.A Polo with some fat arches that goes like stink? Nah we don't need to capitalise on that money we spent rallying. Apparently the new Fiesta is good, but it would look better doing it with box arches. How much did Citroen spend through the Loeb years? What did we get? Some stickers on a C4.
So now I hear that Toyota are going rallying in a f
k-your-stupid-power-war RWD car just for the purposes of looking good, and I wonder if there might be some hope yet.RedAndy said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I broadly agree with you. When rallying started to be populated by cars you couldn't actually buy is when I lost any interest.
absolutely.not even sure how they are road legal..........try building one and put it through IVA = VOSA will just laugh at you !!!!!!!
magpies said:
RedAndy said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I broadly agree with you. When rallying started to be populated by cars you couldn't actually buy is when I lost any interest.
absolutely.not even sure how they are road legal..........try building one and put it through IVA = VOSA will just laugh at you !!!!!!!
TurboBlue said:
I think RedAndy & Johnnytheboy meant when the requirement to build homologation vehicles came to end is when the link was broken - it was for me anyway. I'd agree with a previous poster about Citroen and the WRC - showroom stuff amounted to paint, wheels and stickers.
PublicDrifter said:
Fantuzzi said:
The top tier WRC definitely needs a boost, either through 'sexy' cars that make people want to watch it, whack a couple of coupes with sonorous engines or make them technically intriguing.
Technically intriguing.....have you ever watched the suspension of a current generation WRC at work. I've been lucky enough to both marshal and spectate at close quarters. Over rough ground and jumps the current cars are simply outstanding. They may look boring because they are THAT good.Aural stimulation is the ingredient that is lacking. Give me a 2L N/A over these 1600 turbos any day. That or a v6 a la 306 Cosworth, 6R4 or Stratos.
If it 'looks boring' then it wont grab peoples attention, no matter how impressive they actually are.
In all honesty, the reason Group B was popular is because they were mad, people don't want to see normal looking cars, no matter how modified. Sports car a little different as they are already rare and revered, but whilst the sport has it history in 'normal' cars in rallying it needs to change at the top tier. Keep the modified gt86s, abarth 500s, clios and the like, but have more extreme cars at the top, whether that be heavily altered hatches, or more exotic cars like 911s evoras.
magpies said:
RedAndy said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I broadly agree with you. When rallying started to be populated by cars you couldn't actually buy is when I lost any interest.
absolutely.not even sure how they are road legal..........try building one and put it through IVA = VOSA will just laugh at you !!!!!!!
A field of GT-86s would be more interesting than the current crop of one off 4wd superminis.
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