RE: Fast should mean scary: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
James1972 said:
The fear for all 'fast' cars now is all about getting caught.....
This is true also. The thing that's most on my mind when going for a spirited drive is often the potential to get caught speeding or being accused of driving damgerously, even though I really don't, and I'm very selective of when I choose to actually stretch the car.I suppose in that sense, the road policing policies are having and effect, and are making (some) people think about their driving beyond the pure factor of keeping a quick car on the road.. Which was the main focus when I first started driving in my mk1 MR2 with ditch-finders (I actually did find a ditch funnily enough..).
One of the reasons why I've still got my MX5 after 4 years.
Not fast but its perfect for narrow country roads and roundabout shenanigans.
Give it big death everywhere and it begs for more.
I want another car but keep coming back to the little Mazda.
Not fast but its perfect for narrow country roads and roundabout shenanigans.
Give it big death everywhere and it begs for more.
I want another car but keep coming back to the little Mazda.
Edited by Russ_H on Thursday 14th November 12:06
I watched Evo Car of the Year last night and then spent 30 minutes discussing it with a colleague this morning. We came to exactly the same conclusion as this article.
I am privileged enough to have driven some lovely cars including M3, Evora S, TVR Cerbera etc but the one car I really miss - my 306GTi-6 that I bought for £1,500 about 6 years ago. So light with enough power to have fun but it was the last car I really felt I could keep my foot to the floor for more than 10 seconds.
I don't have the money to go out and buy one of the modern supercars and I suspect if I won the Euro millions I would be down to McLaren like a shot, but as I sit here typing they all leave me feeling very cold.
I am privileged enough to have driven some lovely cars including M3, Evora S, TVR Cerbera etc but the one car I really miss - my 306GTi-6 that I bought for £1,500 about 6 years ago. So light with enough power to have fun but it was the last car I really felt I could keep my foot to the floor for more than 10 seconds.
I don't have the money to go out and buy one of the modern supercars and I suspect if I won the Euro millions I would be down to McLaren like a shot, but as I sit here typing they all leave me feeling very cold.
Spot on. I went from an Impreza turbo that anyone could - and frequently did - drive insanely quickly to an E46 330D, E91 330i and now a 996 C2. The 996, even though it's the entry-level 996, demands my attention every time I want to drive it quickly, and it is huge, huge fun to drive. It's a challenge, fundamentally because the weight's in the wrong place, but every bit of it that's important seems to be set up to allow you to enjoy the challenge, from the steering to the brakes to the accelerator response to the engine to the ... and if you get it wrong it'll let you know. The first 'oh, the steering's gone eerily light' moment stays with you forever, but that's part of the appeal.
Next fun car will be lighter, less powerful. Am seriously considering a BRZ with a supercharger kit... Or possibly a 997 gen2 when they get to be sensible money. Or something boring.
Next fun car will be lighter, less powerful. Am seriously considering a BRZ with a supercharger kit... Or possibly a 997 gen2 when they get to be sensible money. Or something boring.
The thing that confuses me is how people say modern hot hatches are more fun because they offer accessible fun, that they somehow allow fun while still being (almost) within the law. Yet the hot hatches I drive all seem to make a complete mockery of speed limits.
I obviously exist in a separate reality. My reality is one where a mundane 520d might regularly exceed 100mph on a small B-road, while many Pistonheaders describe the car as slow. Exactly how fast do these people want to drive?
I obviously exist in a separate reality. My reality is one where a mundane 520d might regularly exceed 100mph on a small B-road, while many Pistonheaders describe the car as slow. Exactly how fast do these people want to drive?
Couldn't agree more. The last two years have seen me gone E46 M3, 996 C4S, 996 Turbo, 996 Turbo chipped to 500BHP. I just kept going for more but realised that speed is not what I was looking for (especially as have road/track bikes). Speed is nothing without involvement, fun and a feeling of 'edge'.
Now have a 360. Don't get me wrong it's still fast but the noise, sense of occasion, and the ability to have fun at normal speeds makes it such an emotional car.
Having said that, I very nearly bought a S2000 instead of the 360. Other end of spectrum, but so much fun, real characher, cheap and chuckable. Had to scratch the Ferrari itch though!
Now have a 360. Don't get me wrong it's still fast but the noise, sense of occasion, and the ability to have fun at normal speeds makes it such an emotional car.
Having said that, I very nearly bought a S2000 instead of the 360. Other end of spectrum, but so much fun, real characher, cheap and chuckable. Had to scratch the Ferrari itch though!
I remember getting the initial drives in my old Impreza Turbo and for the first time thinking "this car is faster than my reactions... uh oh".
Luckily, I realised that a higher limit of grip just meant that when I had an off, it'd be much bigger. Fear, or survival instinct? Possibly the same thing.
Luckily, I realised that a higher limit of grip just meant that when I had an off, it'd be much bigger. Fear, or survival instinct? Possibly the same thing.
FWDRacer said:
Were you in control? Of the champagne glass or Concorde? The two things are very different...
Was Dan in control of the Porker? Because it sounds like he was just along for the ride while the car dictated what it wanted to do - be that corner apex clippingly perfectionism or hurtling off into the nearest shrubbery just for the hell of it. Today it decided to stay on that tarmac. Tomorrow, who knows? Certainly not the driver.Agreed BUT:
It's quite hard to sell cars on the basis of "It feels nice to drive" because that's subjective.
Much easier to sell cars on the basis of its 0-60 time, top speed, ring time, top gear time etc, because that's objective.
A faster lap time doesn't always make for a more fun car. It depends on your personal definition of fun. Some people find fun playing sideways, other people find fun in setting lap times. Neither is better or worse. Personally, I like going fast not going sideways. You may have a different personal opinion.
It's quite hard to sell cars on the basis of "It feels nice to drive" because that's subjective.
Much easier to sell cars on the basis of its 0-60 time, top speed, ring time, top gear time etc, because that's objective.
A faster lap time doesn't always make for a more fun car. It depends on your personal definition of fun. Some people find fun playing sideways, other people find fun in setting lap times. Neither is better or worse. Personally, I like going fast not going sideways. You may have a different personal opinion.
Rather boringly, I agree too.
I'll admit that I love good solid acceleration, but I'm much more drawn to cars that are a bit iffy doing it than something which is properly engineered, safe, easy to drive and refined with it.
I like big engines, but I like to be made to think when it's safe to use it. I can appreciate low powered cars too, but there would be a hole in my automotive life without something powerful yet very demanding too.
I'll admit that I love good solid acceleration, but I'm much more drawn to cars that are a bit iffy doing it than something which is properly engineered, safe, easy to drive and refined with it.
I like big engines, but I like to be made to think when it's safe to use it. I can appreciate low powered cars too, but there would be a hole in my automotive life without something powerful yet very demanding too.
Which is exactly why I think the Smart Roadster was such a good little car... It felt fast when it really wasn't. There was plenty of fun to be had on the right side of the speed limit.
It's also why I love pottering around in the Skunk. It's capable and quick, but there are no driver aids to numb the driving experience.
Who cares how quick you're going? It's all about how much fun you're having.
It's also why I love pottering around in the Skunk. It's capable and quick, but there are no driver aids to numb the driving experience.
Who cares how quick you're going? It's all about how much fun you're having.
Spot on.
It is indeed, not about going fast, but HOW you go fast.
The most exciting, terrifying examples of this are in the world of classic cars. Not much grip, dodgy steering, no brakes to speak of, but plenty of power and the ability to trot along at three figures. Certainly gets the pulse raised.
And really old, pre-war cars can be simply terrifying at high speeds. I love 'em.
It is indeed, not about going fast, but HOW you go fast.
The most exciting, terrifying examples of this are in the world of classic cars. Not much grip, dodgy steering, no brakes to speak of, but plenty of power and the ability to trot along at three figures. Certainly gets the pulse raised.
And really old, pre-war cars can be simply terrifying at high speeds. I love 'em.
Zircon said:
Scary fast is a rarity these days - a reason why I can't ever see myself selling my MR2 Turbo (and yes I would love a 911 or a true pedigree instead of my MR2 - sadly funds don't allow this). Whilst I totally understand that performance wise it's not in the same league as the Porsche in this article, it is still scary fast.
Before you look down your noses at the 'hairdressers Toyota', go and drive one of the 1994 - 1999 Turbo models (in good running order), I can guarantee you will raise your eyebrows and agree that it is scary fast to drive and a much underrated performance car. You will get a far bigger buzz out of the MR2 than an Impreza for example, despite the Impreza being the more complete performance package.
Few modern cars - as the article quite rightly says - offer this raw feeling so I wholeheartedly agree with your words. It's all about the fear.....
Indeed, this. I am a former MR2 Turbo owner, and it was always a pleasure and slightly nervy on the limit, or approaching it! You were always aware of what the car was doing, you could never switch off when you were driving it, and that was a good thing. The feeling of slip at the rear wheels, or the nose lifting on on a D/C to tell you you were going pretty fast...those were moments that will stay with me forever. The car felt alive, it felt characterful and pressing on was a challenge. Before you look down your noses at the 'hairdressers Toyota', go and drive one of the 1994 - 1999 Turbo models (in good running order), I can guarantee you will raise your eyebrows and agree that it is scary fast to drive and a much underrated performance car. You will get a far bigger buzz out of the MR2 than an Impreza for example, despite the Impreza being the more complete performance package.
Few modern cars - as the article quite rightly says - offer this raw feeling so I wholeheartedly agree with your words. It's all about the fear.....
I feel it now also in my 106 Rallye. It's nowhere near as 'fast' as the MR2 Turbo, but it's a more delicate handler and it presses you into some wild cornering speeds that bigger, lardier lumps of metal can only dream of. That delicacy of handling is complimented by the engine, that rewards dedication and skilful use of the gears, and doesn't really give you anything beneath 4000rpm. This is tempered by a constant reminder that the agility is borne from a low kerb weight, and all the exposed metal in the interior, the thin pillars, the lack of airbags; it all serves to keep you strictly on task and asking yourself "what if?". I wouldn't fancy crashing it, and the thought that I myself could come to harm is one I consider. In many modern cars, the drivers feel so insulated and disconnected from the road, I think they just expect to survive any crash unscathed, even if the car is written off. It's much easier to take silly risks when you feel safe, and it's much easier to feel the thrilling flow of adrenaline when you don't!
I agree with this-i'm not (and probably won't be) the owner of any supercars, but cars are so capable these days that even a modern hot hatch has to be driven pretty hard to get to its limit.. I've raced cars for yonks (nothing that flash, or fast) and when a non-petrolhead commented to me that I must be a speed freak I tried to explain to her that I'm not, really. I like to push a car as hard as I can whilst trying to keep it facing the right way, and beating the other blokes doing the same. The only reason I mess around with the car to make it faster is so that I can attempt to beat the others-not so that it feels fast
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