RE: Fast should mean scary: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
Modern supercars are simply too fast and efficient for their own good. To extract any sense of speed, fun and enjoyment from them you need to be doing warp speed which is not good on a public road.
I really feel we have reached an optimum and pivotal point where they need to worry less about outright speed and lap times and engineer some more fun back into the cars at sane speeds for public roads.
For this very reason I recently purchased a Lamborghini Gallardo over a 458 and mcLaren MP4 12C. The latter 2 were probably faster and better engineered but did not leave me with the idiotic grin on my face that the Lambo did.
There is only so fast you can go so how you go there is the key. As JC says in a Lambo every journey is a pantomine, a special occasion and full of FUN.
The Lamborghini LP570-4 Performante Edizione Tecnica is epic and is guaranteed to be a future classic
( sadly probably not in my ownership )
I really feel we have reached an optimum and pivotal point where they need to worry less about outright speed and lap times and engineer some more fun back into the cars at sane speeds for public roads.
For this very reason I recently purchased a Lamborghini Gallardo over a 458 and mcLaren MP4 12C. The latter 2 were probably faster and better engineered but did not leave me with the idiotic grin on my face that the Lambo did.
There is only so fast you can go so how you go there is the key. As JC says in a Lambo every journey is a pantomine, a special occasion and full of FUN.
The Lamborghini LP570-4 Performante Edizione Tecnica is epic and is guaranteed to be a future classic
( sadly probably not in my ownership )
.... mind you I do drive a 1973 911 
nice work, dan. right on.
i've recently been going through this myself, and i think top-down motoring offers a kind of enjoyment that makes you not really care about speed anymore. handling, yes - speed, no. it's about the journey, not how quick you get there.
pity my wife is so fair-skinned...
peter
i've recently been going through this myself, and i think top-down motoring offers a kind of enjoyment that makes you not really care about speed anymore. handling, yes - speed, no. it's about the journey, not how quick you get there.
pity my wife is so fair-skinned...
peter
It's all about enjoyment really isn't it, at the end of the day we are all governed by the same rules.
I remember a few years back evo rated the panda 100hp as more fun than most supercars. Id say that's due to said rules, for instance we all should stick to speed limits and therefore 60mph in a Fiat will feel a lot faster than 60mph in a Zonda.
Hence a more enjoyable drive in the fiat, i'd say that anymore than 200bhp and you're losing out on potential for enjoyment in day to day driving.
I remember a few years back evo rated the panda 100hp as more fun than most supercars. Id say that's due to said rules, for instance we all should stick to speed limits and therefore 60mph in a Fiat will feel a lot faster than 60mph in a Zonda.
Hence a more enjoyable drive in the fiat, i'd say that anymore than 200bhp and you're losing out on potential for enjoyment in day to day driving.
I'm probably getting old (in fact I am) but their are very few occasions when our 300bhp BM isn't quick enough. I'm not saying it's mega fast but it gets to 90 pretty rapidly and anything above that isn't really relevant to any sane driver. Should you want to be silly, it still pulling hard at that speed.
Clearly it's not a Top Trumps bragging car but "being faster" isn't actually a priority for its replacement. Down in the rural area of Cornwall, I rarely meet anything quicker.
It would be very different in the SE but then there's almost nowhere to enjoy a quick motor.
Clearly it's not a Top Trumps bragging car but "being faster" isn't actually a priority for its replacement. Down in the rural area of Cornwall, I rarely meet anything quicker.
It would be very different in the SE but then there's almost nowhere to enjoy a quick motor.
Couldn't agree more a journey to work in my AC Cobra replica is an event with the open top the sound of the virtually unsilenced V8 and no driving aids you really have to drive it especially in the wet. On other days I drive my 6 litre 400bhp Holden ute which is nearly as fast but has abs, traction control, climate control it is still better than a shopping hatchback but as I get out in the car park there is no looking back at the ute with a huge smile which is guaranteed after any journey in the Cobra.
Gecko1978 said:
I have said this for years fastest feeling car I have driven was a Fiesta 1.0 popular on a C plate at 17. it felt quick as I had no reference points other than my push bike had never driven before and it had no abs, no 5th gear, tyres that I could have swapped with my mountain bike no sound deadending to speak of and a rubbish exhust.
hated and loved it all at once.
I love my Scooby now but a trip to the ring concinced me I would have more fun in a 205 GTI than a 300+ bhp modern car anyday of the week. Speed should cause you to feel something its apathy that has folk falling asleep at 85mph on the motorway.
Closest I came to the fiesta feeling again was doing my CBT at 30 on a 125 honda CG just a helemet and gloves for protection 30mph has never felt so sacry
That red ones nice....hated and loved it all at once.
I love my Scooby now but a trip to the ring concinced me I would have more fun in a 205 GTI than a 300+ bhp modern car anyday of the week. Speed should cause you to feel something its apathy that has folk falling asleep at 85mph on the motorway.
Closest I came to the fiesta feeling again was doing my CBT at 30 on a 125 honda CG just a helemet and gloves for protection 30mph has never felt so sacry
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Edited by hoban81 on Thursday 14th November 14:52
Good argument - just the way things have been going in recent years with power outputs constantly on the up, along with all the sense-numbing technological driver aids and refinements.
By contrast, I'm always surprised at how much driving fun I have in my old Lancia Montecarlo - 120 BHP, just over 1,000kg in weight, poor brakes (!) but nice chassis balance and 'dance-ability'. Then you look at the speedo only to see that it hardly ever seems to be reading above 85 MPH - which at least helps keep the licence safe.
The main point is that, partly because it's mid-engined, you can access such a high percentage of its performance 'envelope' for so much of the time that you feel you're doing the car and yourself justice. When all's said and done though the car's not fast but it's a fun driving companion and 'feels' fast. Surely that's what really counts?
By contrast, I'm always surprised at how much driving fun I have in my old Lancia Montecarlo - 120 BHP, just over 1,000kg in weight, poor brakes (!) but nice chassis balance and 'dance-ability'. Then you look at the speedo only to see that it hardly ever seems to be reading above 85 MPH - which at least helps keep the licence safe.
The main point is that, partly because it's mid-engined, you can access such a high percentage of its performance 'envelope' for so much of the time that you feel you're doing the car and yourself justice. When all's said and done though the car's not fast but it's a fun driving companion and 'feels' fast. Surely that's what really counts?
This scary or crap handling cars are safer because you drive slower is rubbish, especially old cars where the structure is far less stiff and safe.
I would much rather drive a hot hatch than a crappy old car with skinny tyres. It will be stiffer so it will be easier to control at high speed, safer in a crash, and have far better braking ability. This means you will be less likely to crash in the first place, and more likely to survive it.
Also the argument that 'scary' cars are safer is rubbish. The more 'scary' moments you have in a car the more likely you are to crash it! If you own a car with 'scary' handling all that will happen is that you push until it becomes 'interesting' then it bites you in the ass when you don't expect it! That's the definition of an accident, the car doing something unexpected!
I would much rather drive a hot hatch than a crappy old car with skinny tyres. It will be stiffer so it will be easier to control at high speed, safer in a crash, and have far better braking ability. This means you will be less likely to crash in the first place, and more likely to survive it.
Also the argument that 'scary' cars are safer is rubbish. The more 'scary' moments you have in a car the more likely you are to crash it! If you own a car with 'scary' handling all that will happen is that you push until it becomes 'interesting' then it bites you in the ass when you don't expect it! That's the definition of an accident, the car doing something unexpected!
Interesting that this article should occur just weeks after the back-to-basics Caterham was tested, itself announcing that power doesn't have to corrupt absolutely.
I'm not particularly fond of electric gizmos keeping more and more power in line and/or out of reach. I understand why manufacturers do it but it doesn't really impress me. I don't want all that driving nonsense to be done for me - I want to do that bit. Maybe this is why I'm a fan of TVR's. Maybe that is why I drive an MX5. If the power game is going up and up while that window of enjoyment is getting lower and lower then I'll be sticking with it for a while, I imagine...
I'm not particularly fond of electric gizmos keeping more and more power in line and/or out of reach. I understand why manufacturers do it but it doesn't really impress me. I don't want all that driving nonsense to be done for me - I want to do that bit. Maybe this is why I'm a fan of TVR's. Maybe that is why I drive an MX5. If the power game is going up and up while that window of enjoyment is getting lower and lower then I'll be sticking with it for a while, I imagine...
bitwrx said:
See now my Rallye just feels dull compared to the Mini that it replaced.
All relative I suppose.
I would say your rallye needs attention.All relative I suppose.
I have a 100% tip top Gti-6 and its the epitome of driver involvement.
Has some mods mind but i had it standard too and it was just as good.
They benefit massively from a rebuild beam and new bushes all round
I can also recommend Miles gear rods available from pugracing on ebay or miles on 306gti6.com
Also, Lightened flywheels make first "interesting"
Edited by eliotrw on Thursday 14th November 15:06
Another 'I agree' here. That's why I aspire more to owning a modestly powered Caterham than a super car. The firsat time I drove a Caterham it was a revelation, I couldn't beleive how much fun going at modest speeds was. I've since driven some pretty nice cars including a 911, GTR and Gran tursmo, but I'd still take a Caterham all day long.
zeppelin101 said:
I found myself in a(nother) 20 year old turbocharged Nissan after an E46 M3 for this reason.
M3s are wonderful cars, but not that easy to enjoy on the road in the real world imo, the limits are quite high. E36s were better in that rregard I think...
By comparison, the aforementioned 20 year old Nissan can be slid around happily within the speed limit and makes "quick" driving far more interesting!
Try switching sac off, properly off. You may find that fun is easily had at legal speeds M3s are wonderful cars, but not that easy to enjoy on the road in the real world imo, the limits are quite high. E36s were better in that rregard I think...
By comparison, the aforementioned 20 year old Nissan can be slid around happily within the speed limit and makes "quick" driving far more interesting!
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