RE: Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205: PH Heroes
Discussion
Always loved these. Wanted the Tamiya R/C model of the old model when i was a kid, in red/white livery.
The last one i saw was at a trackday at Cadwell. It span in front of me on the way into The Mountain and hit the barrier HARD. Sad to see
The last one i saw was at a trackday at Cadwell. It span in front of me on the way into The Mountain and hit the barrier HARD. Sad to see
Edited by dapearson on Friday 22 November 11:29
Any excuse to trot out these shots of mine:
I rarely use mine these days, mainly because I've acquired a lower back problem and have trouble getting in and out of the damn thing, but I've done around 30,000 miles in it since I bought it in January 2009 (when it was just a bog standard car with very few mods) and loved every one of them. Ridiculously good road holding, decent power and has decent fuel economy too.
The only complaint I'd have is that it's almost too competent, unless you're on a wet track, it's bloody hard to get the back out and have a bit of slippy slidey fun.
I rarely use mine these days, mainly because I've acquired a lower back problem and have trouble getting in and out of the damn thing, but I've done around 30,000 miles in it since I bought it in January 2009 (when it was just a bog standard car with very few mods) and loved every one of them. Ridiculously good road holding, decent power and has decent fuel economy too.
The only complaint I'd have is that it's almost too competent, unless you're on a wet track, it's bloody hard to get the back out and have a bit of slippy slidey fun.
Chunkychucky said:
Really like these, but are they really that heavy? That's 200kgs heavier than a WRX, doesn't look any bigger 
The build quality of these is more akin to a Porsche993 than any of its direct competitors. The doors for example have that nice Porsche 'thunk' upon closing. It's a far higher standard than an Impreza/Evo and that is where the extra weight has gone.Really like the ST205 - I think they really stand out against all the competitors based on humdrum 4 door saloons and I used to covet them massively when young.
I wish there were more low slung rally bred coupe's.
Dunno if it's an urban myth, but didn't these have the possibility for the customer to enable anti-lag?
I had the same (Very similar at least) engine in an MR2 turbo and it was great. Bullet-proof, tuneable, sounded fine for a 4-pot and liked to rev fairly well for a (now)dated turbo engine.
My friend had a ST205 and I remember it feeling properly rapid with the boost turned up a little. Happy days!
I had the same (Very similar at least) engine in an MR2 turbo and it was great. Bullet-proof, tuneable, sounded fine for a 4-pot and liked to rev fairly well for a (now)dated turbo engine.
My friend had a ST205 and I remember it feeling properly rapid with the boost turned up a little. Happy days!
TheRoadWarrior said:
Dunno if it's an urban myth, but didn't these have the possibility for the customer to enable anti-lag?
The WRC models had various parts of an anti-lag system installed (as well as things like plumbing for a water spray bar etc. I believe too) but from what I remember, there wasn't enough there to enable the system.Plenty of aftermarket options available though if anti-lag's your bag.
TheRoadWarrior said:
My friend had a ST205 and I remember it feeling properly rapid with the boost turned up a little. Happy days!
I use mine between 1.0 and 1.1bar (standard is 0.9) and with a few other mods to improve cooling etc. I've had it dyno'd at just over 300bhp.Owned two, one a very rare blue UK WRC (still owned by the friend I sold it to) and a later import non WRC.
Couple of things: WRC was definitely available in all colours. The anti-lag was there (extra bump on the intake cover cowl is noticable under the bonnet, along with a couple of extra Denso odds and ends) but I was reliably told that if it was connected up on a standard car it would chew up the cat within about ten miles and spit it out the exhaust!
Also, the "water injection" consisted of a set of nozzles in the bumper pointing back at the radiators. They weren't a water injection system in the sense of an Aquamist kit. The comment on intercooler fluid level is correct, and "code 54" - if my memory serves correctly - was a common diagnosis which could be done from the EDB using a paperclip to short two terminals (E1 & TE1) which caused the engine warning light to flash a morse code signal. Clever trick. The acknowledged weak pointo n the cars was the figure eight links in the complex front suspension, which were an expensive replacement (cheaper pattern parts became available) along with the lower and upper suspension arms.
Many happy memories of both cars. Phenomenal performance for the money, and the rarity helped distance it from the more yobbish Subaru image at the time. (I now own a WRX before anyone complains... 
)
Couple of things: WRC was definitely available in all colours. The anti-lag was there (extra bump on the intake cover cowl is noticable under the bonnet, along with a couple of extra Denso odds and ends) but I was reliably told that if it was connected up on a standard car it would chew up the cat within about ten miles and spit it out the exhaust!
Also, the "water injection" consisted of a set of nozzles in the bumper pointing back at the radiators. They weren't a water injection system in the sense of an Aquamist kit. The comment on intercooler fluid level is correct, and "code 54" - if my memory serves correctly - was a common diagnosis which could be done from the EDB using a paperclip to short two terminals (E1 & TE1) which caused the engine warning light to flash a morse code signal. Clever trick. The acknowledged weak pointo n the cars was the figure eight links in the complex front suspension, which were an expensive replacement (cheaper pattern parts became available) along with the lower and upper suspension arms.Many happy memories of both cars. Phenomenal performance for the money, and the rarity helped distance it from the more yobbish Subaru image at the time.
(I now own a WRX before anyone complains... )I loved my JDM facelift ST205 which I owned at the same time as my Lancia integrale EVO1 which I still have. Was living the SEGA Rally dream.
It was expensive new but it was in comparison to competitors almost over engineered.
The brakes are 315mm vented front and rear, 4 pot Satimoto front and 2 lot rear callipers with handbrake drum built inside rear disc bell. They stop well even compared to modern stuff. The SuperStrut front suspension predates Fords RevoKnuckle or Renault PerfoHub front suspension set up fixing by many years.
The Yamaha designed engine is non interference making superior power with less boost than the likes of Ford Cosworth or Lancia. Using the Toyota designed twin scroll turbo which had ceramic blades on JDM cars to reduce rotating mass but steel on UKDM cars due to inferior fuel and running at only 0.9bar. Compared to the big Garrett T3 or T2.5'a used by Ford and Lancia running 1.2-3 bar to make less power shows the efficiency of the set up with way less lag. This design was way ahead if it's time when you look at the onslaught now of petrol turbo cars using small quick spooling turbochargers.
The car although heavy at 1450kgs, but is torsionally much stiffer than either the Ford/Lancia/Nissan Sunny GTiR of the time. I've no extensive experience of the Subaru's from this era so not sure how it compares.
I wish I still had it, and if I get the space/money to keep one garaged, I'll track down a last of the line facelift model again with the projector headlamps (much better than the older ones) and Recaro seats and although I've only ever seen my old one with it Toyota/MOMO steering wheel as much nicer than standard one.
It was expensive new but it was in comparison to competitors almost over engineered.
The brakes are 315mm vented front and rear, 4 pot Satimoto front and 2 lot rear callipers with handbrake drum built inside rear disc bell. They stop well even compared to modern stuff. The SuperStrut front suspension predates Fords RevoKnuckle or Renault PerfoHub front suspension set up fixing by many years.
The Yamaha designed engine is non interference making superior power with less boost than the likes of Ford Cosworth or Lancia. Using the Toyota designed twin scroll turbo which had ceramic blades on JDM cars to reduce rotating mass but steel on UKDM cars due to inferior fuel and running at only 0.9bar. Compared to the big Garrett T3 or T2.5'a used by Ford and Lancia running 1.2-3 bar to make less power shows the efficiency of the set up with way less lag. This design was way ahead if it's time when you look at the onslaught now of petrol turbo cars using small quick spooling turbochargers.
The car although heavy at 1450kgs, but is torsionally much stiffer than either the Ford/Lancia/Nissan Sunny GTiR of the time. I've no extensive experience of the Subaru's from this era so not sure how it compares.
I wish I still had it, and if I get the space/money to keep one garaged, I'll track down a last of the line facelift model again with the projector headlamps (much better than the older ones) and Recaro seats and although I've only ever seen my old one with it Toyota/MOMO steering wheel as much nicer than standard one.
I imported one of these back in 2001 which was a 1994 WRC model. I owned it for a couple of years and did a couple of track days in it too. Mine was OEM apart from being de-restricted and I'm surprised people are saying they were slow compared to it's competitors. On a fast circuit like Goodwood I found myself lapping all but one of the cars on the day and had other drivers asking what had been done to my car. They were surprised when I said it was standard.
At the time I was covering about 20K miles a year and it was my only car. Nothing went wrong...it never let me down...I drove the wheels off it for two years and sold it for about £1000 less than I paid for it. On that basis it has to be one of the best cars I have ever owned. I would love another one and would be lying if I said I hadn't kept an eye on the classifieds every now and then. :-)
James.
At the time I was covering about 20K miles a year and it was my only car. Nothing went wrong...it never let me down...I drove the wheels off it for two years and sold it for about £1000 less than I paid for it. On that basis it has to be one of the best cars I have ever owned. I would love another one and would be lying if I said I hadn't kept an eye on the classifieds every now and then. :-)
James.
aeropilot said:
2nd only to the Integrale Evo of all the old Group A homologation specials.
Or raher, the buy with head choice, over the 'grale's buy with heart choice perhaps.
This.Or raher, the buy with head choice, over the 'grale's buy with heart choice perhaps.
I was looking for one of these a few years back, but I struggled to find a decent one. So I gave up my search when a very nice HF 16v came up locally. The one car I realy wish I could have kept, but the 'grale is certainly more of an weekend car where I'd be comfortable in one of these for daily duties...
..Which now has me thinking! Damn you PH
I had one of those moments in a GT4 that I'll probably never forget coming from the fairly uninteresting small European petrol engine cars of my youth. Joining the A31 in a WRC ST205 that I was test driving. I came to quite a dangerous junction. The way the car launched off the mark, making other cars soon seem like they were going backwards. What I found a bit disconcerting was when I looked down to see what speed I was going, the TRD dials had figures in KPH. I quickly moved across to the inside lane. Mandatory - windscreen wipers on, move across.
The handling was utterly sublime as the figure of 8's had been replaced. Unfortunately the insurance proved rather difficult at the time, but it's one car I regret not owning. I wasn't very keen on the seats, but otherwise would have taken one of these over Impreza's, Evo's and Escorts of that era.
Still miss mine 5 years on after getting rid of it. Quickest point to point car I've had by far, the main problem with it was that it was too good - you had to be going pretty fast for it to come alive. Loved the way it looked as well, with all the vents and scoops in the bonnet. Had it 2 years and nothing went wrong with it, would quite like another to be honest!
silent k said:
Still miss mine 5 years on after getting rid of it. Quickest point to point car I've had by far, the main problem with it was that it was too good - you had to be going pretty fast for it to come alive. Loved the way it looked as well, with all the vents and scoops in the bonnet. Had it 2 years and nothing went wrong with it, would quite like another to be honest!
I had OZ Chrono's on mine ...the OEM 3 spokes are/were horrific!A guy at uni had one of these, Superb car (not the LTD ETD mind) very quick and competent and the driving position felt great being so low. It was probably that i was a Subaru fan at the time that it never quite completley clicked with me but there was no denying it was a great car.
Now i look back on it i realize it would be a keeper. The modern tat they're wey're being spoon fed now just makes cars like this even better.
Now i look back on it i realize it would be a keeper. The modern tat they're wey're being spoon fed now just makes cars like this even better.
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