BCA Auction

[confused_buyer]

MX7 said:

So why mention fixed fee?

The fact is, the more people you have at an auction, the more likely you are to see a car, the more commission you'll make.

The advanatge is to the vendor, not the auction house, because as I have tried to explain the auction house does not take a percentage of the sale price for 99% of the cars.

The major vendors pay a fee per car, fixed regardless of what it sells for and regardless of how many times it goes through. This is why they are relaxed about losing a sale on a provisional for £50. It won't cost them to put it back in again.

[unrepentant]

confused_buyer said:

MX7 said:

I think that the vast majority know what they are doing. Why are you presuming that everyone's an idiot?

If only that were true. Spend some significant time at auctions and listen to some of the conversations. The naive nature of some buyers can make you cry.

(That said, I wasn't complaining to the two buyers who bid an Audi of mine up £600 over CAP Clean needing a new gearbox, clutch and flywheel last week).

We used to see the same thing in the antiques / art world. You'd watch some schmuck bidding against a dealer on a piece then congratulating himself on outbidding said dealer, believing he got a great deal because he was underbid by a well known dealer who he knows "would have doubled the price". Little did he know it was the dealers own piece he was bidding on. Happens every day.........

[jdcampbell]

MX7 said:

jdcampbell said:

You are missing his point. He's saying that members of the public should not be buying at auction because it's a right pain when they come squealing back because the car they bought at auction had some faults. I can understand that point of view.

Anyone who buys at auction should recognise they have no comeback unless the car was formally sold as warranted without faults.

It should be understood that's the risk you take in buying a car at an auction.

I think that the vast majority know what they are doing. Why are you presuming that everyone's an idiot?

I'm not presuming anything. I merely expanded on the point of view expressed by markmullen since you seemed to have misunderstood it - just like you've misunderstood my above post.

[MX7]

confused_buyer said:

The advanatge is to the vendor, not the auction house, because as I have tried to explain the auction house does not take a percentage of the sale price for 99% of the cars.

I didn't say they did. I said that they took a commission.

confused_buyer said:

The major vendors pay a fee per car, fixed regardless of what it sells for and regardless of how many times it goes through. This is why they are relaxed about losing a sale on a provisional for £50. It won't cost them to put it back in again.

And given the buyer's fees, can you not see where the auction houses make their money?

It's quite simple. The more potential buyers there are, the more money you'll make.

[MX7]

unrepentant said:

We used to see the same thing in the antiques / art world. You'd watch some schmuck bidding against a dealer on a piece then congratulating himself on outbidding said dealer, believing he got a great deal because he was underbid by a well known dealer who he knows "would have doubled the price". Little did he know it was the dealers own piece he was bidding on. Happens every day.........

But not legal.

[confused_buyer]

MX7 said:

And given the buyer's fees, can you not see where the auction houses make their money?

It's quite simple. The more potential buyers there are, the more money you'll make.

My point is it is marginal. The difference between £6000 and £6500 is neglible for the auction house. On top of that they have the costs of dealing with 10 different customers if they are private compared to one buyer for all 10. So they might get £35 extra buyers premium but have to employ someone to deal with the higher maintenance customers.

[MX7]

confused_buyer said:

My point is it is marginal. The difference between £6000 and £6500 is neglible for the auction house.

I think it's zero. £416 according to the latest figures I can find.

confused_buyer said:

On top of that they have the costs of dealing with 10 different customers if they are private compared to one buyer for all 10. So they might get £35 extra buyers premium but have to employ someone to deal with the higher maintenance customers.

I can't say I noticed a particularly high level of customer care last time I went! However, they would have 10 times the amount of people to pay for parking, sell the catalogue to, and sell their crappy coffee to. And, of course, retail attracts a much higher buyers fee.

Don't get me wrong, having been with friends a couple of times, I think it's a fairly poor way of buying a car, but if that's what both the auction house and the public want, so be it. It would be very easy for an auction house to have, and enforce, a trade only rule, but they don't.

[Shadow R1]

MX7 said:

It would be very easy for an auction house to have, and enforce, a trade only rule, but they don't.

Colwick has regular trade only sales.

[confused_buyer]

MX7 said:

Don't get me wrong, having been with friends a couple of times, I think it's a fairly poor way of buying a car, but if that's what both the auction house and the public want, so be it. It would be very easy for an auction house to have, and enforce, a trade only rule, but they don't.

The vendors have a big say too. Afterall, they are their cars(*).

I think the auction houses are quite happy for private buyers to be there, buy coffee and bid cars up but prefer the final buyer to be a trade one with an account as they are usually less work.

(*) Except in the case of WeBuyAnyCar and WeWantAnyCar in which case vendor and auction house are one and the same.

[MX7]

confused_buyer said:

I think the auction houses are quite happy for private buyers to be there, buy coffee and bid cars up but prefer the final buyer to be a trade one with an account as they are usually less work.

You think that an auction would prefer 10 cars for around £1,700 trade, rather than £4,000+ so they can save on a bit of admin?

I'm not sure of the exact trade discount, but those sorts of figures seem to be mentioned. Perhaps someone here can clarify?

[JimmyConwayNW]

Tuesday of this week I was at an independent auction.

Someone bid on a car I was interested in and ended up actually bidding it up more than I wanted to pay. They then realised they had to leave a deposit on it there and then and didn't actually have any money, having won the auction. They did a runner.

Seen 2 blokes in there in the office who won an auction on a pug 206 on the V Car. Clearly signed in the window and announced as it went through. They realised as they were about to pay and started causing a load of fuss.

Certain members of the public are a total pain in the arse.

This auction was fairly low on stock, and this was just 2 examples I witnessed. I often find there are a range of people treating it as a day out with kids in buggies and just general people on day release from the nearby prison or such like .


I think a trade policy and trade bank account with some evidence of trading are better than completely limiting to VAT regd businesses. Some of these businesses have to start somewhere, much like me 12-18month ago.

[va1o]

This thread seems to be descending into the stupidness that ruined the car salesman thread. My view is still the same, unless I need to PX/ Finance I'll stick to buying used cars from auction at trade price rather than paying retail at a dealer. Quite happy to take the risk.

[Monty Zoomer]

unrepentant said:

We used to see the same thing in the antiques / art world. You'd watch some schmuck bidding against a dealer on a piece then congratulating himself on outbidding said dealer, believing he got a great deal because he was underbid by a well known dealer who he knows "would have doubled the price". Little did he know it was the dealers own piece he was bidding on. Happens every day.........

[MarsellusWallace]

va1o said:

This thread seems to be descending into the stupidness that ruined the car salesman thread. My view is still the same, unless I need to PX/ Finance I'll stick to buying used cars from auction at trade price rather than paying retail at a dealer. Quite happy to take the risk.

Even if it means paying more than you could buy the equivalent car from a dealer for ??

[MarsellusWallace]

Big auction companies know their business very well.They like the private buyers because they drive prices up which pleases the organisations that are putting the vehicles through as they make more money.When a private is successful and buys a car then the auction company charge them excessive fees.Sure the odd one has a moan but the auction co has this taken care of and private buyers have little comeback if the car turns out to be a nightmare.

I decided a long time ago that the auction co and sellers have things pretty much sewn up and for my size of business and the type of cars I like to sell I was never going to make a decent margin buying from there,so now source cars elsewhere.

[confused_buyer]

va1o said:

This thread seems to be descending into the stupidness that ruined the car salesman thread. My view is still the same, unless I need to PX/ Finance I'll stick to buying used cars from auction at trade price rather than paying retail at a dealer. Quite happy to take the risk.

That's fine, as long as you make sure the financial gain is worth the risk. I often see buyers buying at a price which, with the fees taken into account, might save them £300 tops. On many cars that isn't worth the risk not to mention the general misery of attending and purchasing at auction.

[MX7]

MarsellusWallace said:

va1o said:

This thread seems to be descending into the stupidness that ruined the car salesman thread. My view is still the same, unless I need to PX/ Finance I'll stick to buying used cars from auction at trade price rather than paying retail at a dealer. Quite happy to take the risk.

Even if it means paying more than you could buy the equivalent car from a dealer for ??

[MarsellusWallace]

MX7 said:

MarsellusWallace said:

va1o said:

This thread seems to be descending into the stupidness that ruined the car salesman thread. My view is still the same, unless I need to PX/ Finance I'll stick to buying used cars from auction at trade price rather than paying retail at a dealer. Quite happy to take the risk.

Even if it means paying more than you could buy the equivalent car from a dealer for ??

The op pointed out in his first post that a lot of cars are currently selling at car auctions for more than you can buy them off dealers for.

[Brompty]

I went to BCA at Paddock Wood this morning. First time I had been to an auction.

I was really surprised at the prices: very high and with the buyers' fee attached prohibitive for me. I had my eye on a Nissan 350Z 2006 coupe. When I inspected the car, the front was new, the back was new and the windscreen has been replaced so badly there were shards of glass still in between the new 'sceen and the body; the car had been rear and front ended which may have also smashed the windscreen. I thought this would struggle to get over £1000. Bidding started at £5k and it sold for £6.4k. With fees this would have taken it comfortably north of £7k. I do know who bought it, but if it was a trader how can any money be made on this car? If it was a private bidder, they must have seen a different car to the one I examined in not too much detail.

Prices for small to medium hatchbacks however were not too bad, but a quick look in Autotrade would get better, I think.

[Muncher]

Not too dissimilar to property auctions where lemons seem to fetch top money, because every man and his dog have watched homes under the hammer and think everything is a bargain.